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  1. #61
    Phil Kane
    Guest

    Re: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do

    On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:23:55 GMT, Cyrus Afzali wrote:

    >This is true, but it's very rare that someone will seek civil
    >penalties if the event in question is also covered by criminal
    >penalties and there's a decent chance the charges will stand up.


    Not so - "follow-up" civil suits are very common. Most are settled
    out-of-court with no trial if the defendant has already been
    convicted of the violation.

    These civil cases are "follow-up" because it is an ethical violation
    for an attorney to threaten criminal prosecution to settle a civil
    suit, but a civil suit can always be brought after a criminal trial.

    >Why?
    >Because you can still collect fines in a criminal proceeding as well
    >as win criminal charges.


    No, the court collects the fines and deposits it in the local
    treasury, not with the victim, and even if the court orders
    restitution, it is only for "general damages", i.e. economic damages
    such as out-of-pocket losses that can be detailed. It would not
    cover "special damages", such as damages for pain and suffering or
    emotional distress, nor would it cover "punitive damages" designed
    to make an economic example of the tortfeasor. For those, one must
    bring a civil suit.

    --
    ===> Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please <===

    Phil Kane -- Beaverton, Oregon
    PNW Milepost 754 -- Tillamook District






    See More: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do




  2. #62
    Allan
    Guest

    Re: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do

    kl <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<tio5qvg00d3ae7420a292lcqpd6f08pr9o@news>...
    > Reach in and try to grab it, of course
    >
    > NEW YORK (Reuters) --Cell phone users have been known to complain about poor
    > service, but one New York man's mobile literally went down the toilet.
    >
    > The man was on a suburban train from Grand Central Station on Wednesday night
    > when he went to the bathroom to make a phone call, dropped the phone into the
    > toilet bowl and then his hand and arm became stuck trying to retrieve it,
    > officials said.
    >
    > Metro-North Railroad staff could not help the man, so they stopped the train and
    > called police officers and firefighters to extricate him, a process that took 90
    > minutes using "jaws of life" rescue equipment.
    >
    > "The toilets are made of aluminum so I imagine he was down on hands and knees
    > with his shirt rolled up and hand and arm down inside, trying to flush out his
    > cell phone," said Jim Cameron of the Connecticut Metro-North commuter council.
    >
    > He said that because of the design of the train toilet, the mobile probably
    > ended up in a chemical holding tank.
    >
    > A spokesman for the railroad that serves the northern suburbs of New York and
    > Connecticut identified the man as Edwin Gallard, 41, of New York, who suffered a
    > minor injury to his arm as firefighters cut the toilet apart.
    >
    > The track was closed and thousands of commuters were delayed during the evening
    > rush hour.
    >
    > The phone has not yet been recovered.



    This must be a new toilet "training" method.


    Can you hear me now?



  3. #63
    Adam H. Kerman
    Guest

    Re: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do

    Curly Sue <[email protected]> wrote:
    >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:18:58 -0500, "Candide" <[email protected]> wrote:


    >>According to local television news, Metro North is considering suing the
    >>man in question for damages caused by rerouting trains/passenger delays/
    >>etc, not to mention the costs of the work crew with blow torches cutting
    >>apart the WC.


    >That would be nasty. Paying for his own rescue will probably be a
    >financial hardship as it is; there's no sense in bankrupting the guy
    >for a stupid mistake. It's not like he did it on purpose to create
    >havoc.


    Sounds like an intentional act to me with a predictable outcome.



  4. #64
    Candide
    Guest

    Re: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do





    "Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:29:28 GMT, mrtravel <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Peter T. Daniels wrote:
    > >> mrtravel wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>1CELL.html?ex=1068354000&en=98e6
    > >>>
    > >>>>>658dcb73ecc9&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>If they do that, why not excess people over here who don't pay

    for a ticket
    > >>>>>to cover the costs the Train Company has to pay for delayed

    trains when they
    > >>>>>get the police to escort the man/woman off the train.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Do you mean assess? At any rate, once the person is taken into
    > >>>>custody, it's up to the courts to decide what, if any, restitution
    > >>>>(s)he has to pay for the crimes committed. That's not something a
    > >>>>transit system can invoke in a rule.
    > >>>
    > >>>Not correct. They can still sue for damages. What satisfies the

    criminal
    > >>>court might not be adequate in civil court.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> That's backward. Civil standards are more lenient than criminal;

    and you
    > >> don't have a Constitutional right to an attorney in a civil matter.

    > >
    > >The point is that the penalties in the criminal matter don't prevent

    the
    > > damaged party from suing.

    >
    > This is true, but it's very rare that someone will seek civil
    > penalties if the event in question is also covered by criminal
    > penalties and there's a decent chance the charges will stand up. Why?
    > Because you can still collect fines in a criminal proceeding as well
    > as win criminal charges.


    Two letters "O.J." (as in Simpson), who is now living in Florida to
    protect what he can from the lawsuit his dead wife's family won against
    him. Being acquitted of criminal charges had/has no effect on the filing
    of civil charges if the state allows crime victims to sue.

    In O.J.'s case having been found "innocent" Nicole Simpson's family was
    able to get some redress by suing and obtaining a monetary judgement.
    Without this statue the family would have been left with nothing. Even
    if OJ had been found guilty of murder, the court could not/would not
    award "damages" to Nicole's family/estate since murder is not a crime
    against property. Only in cases of larceny, fraud and other sorts of
    theft do criminal courts award monetary amounts, and that is usually to
    make the crime victim "whole" again.

    Criminal courts do not "fine" convicted murderers per se, although some
    states such as New York, do prevent a convicted criminal from profiting
    from their crime. In such cases IIRC any money received from say a book
    or movie deal goes to the victim, their family or estate.

    The United States government passed a law several years ago that allowed
    victims of sexual abuse to sue their attackers and in some cases an
    organization (such as a school) if it could be proved they knew of,
    condoned, or created an atmosphere that supported such behaviour; but
    the Supreme Court threw it out, no sure of the reason why.

    Candide
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's
    cheaper."
    Quentin Crisp 1908 - 1999
    _+_+_+_+_+_+__+_+_+_+_
    Please do not include entire "X-No-archive: yes" message in your
    response.






  5. #65
    Merritt Mullen
    Guest

    Re: If your cell phone falls in the toilet, what you gonna do

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Candide" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In O.J.'s case having been found "innocent"


    Actually, courts don't find defendants "innocent" (nor do people plead
    "innocence"). They find them "not guilty." The two are not the same.
    Innocence is a moral condition. Not guilty is a legal condition.

    Newspapers are alway incorrectly reporting that so-and-so plead "innocent"
    when they actually plead "not guilty." A plea of "not guilty" is not a
    statement by the defendant that he did not commit the crime.

    Merritt



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