AC2 and Data access

Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with Verizon today
and am moving to the AC2. I specifically asked for confirmation I
will still have access to both Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through
DUN from a notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.

Dear Robert Xxxx,

Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are pleased
to assist with your inquiry.

I checked with our system administrator and they confirmed that you
will have access to both 1xrtt and Quick2Net on America's Choice II.

We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our website for any
of your future needs. Again, thank you for using Verizon Wireless
products and services.

Sincerely,

Gary
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

"We never stop working for you!"

The above response is subject to the terms of your Service Agreement
and calling plan, which apply to all lines on your account. Please
read those materials for full details. Our liability is limited. In
the event of a conflict between this response and the terms of your
Service Agreement and calling plan, the terms of your Service
Agreement and calling plan will govern. Verizon Wireless's calling
plans, rate areas, rates, agreement provisions, business practices,
procedures and policies are subject to change as specified in the
Service Agreement. If you should have any questions or concerns
regarding your service with Verizon Wireless, please contact us at
800-922-0204 or e-mail us through our website at
www.verizonwireless.com.

cmoschip wrote:
> Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with
> Verizon today and am moving to the AC2. I specifically
> asked for confirmation I will still have access to both
> Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through DUN from a
> notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.
>
> Dear Robert Xxxx,
>
> Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website.
> We are pleased to assist with your inquiry.
>
> I checked with our system administrator and they
> confirmed that you will have access to both 1xrtt and
> Quick2Net on America's Choice II.
>
> We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our
> website for any of your future needs. Again, thank you
> for using Verizon Wireless products and services.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gary
> Verizon Wireless
> Customer Service
>
> "We never stop working for you!"
>
> The above response is subject to the terms of your
> Service Agreement and calling plan, which apply to all
> lines on your account. Please read those materials for
> full details.

Doh! You might have been more specific. "I checked with
our system administrator...". Could mean "John, can they
get to QNC and 1xRTT on AC2?", "Sure, AC2 doesn't change
any services they can access".

The followup might be to ask about how the billing works
for that.

-Quick

Good luck!!! I really don't want
to go back to ATT(Cingular), but
looks like there may not be much
difference, especially in the light
of the Bluetooth thing..

Quick wrote:
| cmoschip wrote:
|| Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with
|| Verizon today and am moving to the AC2. I specifically
|| asked for confirmation I will still have access to both
|| Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through DUN from a
|| notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.
||
|| Dear Robert Xxxx,
||
|| Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website.
|| We are pleased to assist with your inquiry.
||
|| I checked with our system administrator and they
|| confirmed that you will have access to both 1xrtt and
|| Quick2Net on America's Choice II.
||
|| We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our
|| website for any of your future needs. Again, thank you
|| for using Verizon Wireless products and services.
||
|| Sincerely,
||
|| Gary
|| Verizon Wireless
|| Customer Service
||
|| "We never stop working for you!"
||
|| The above response is subject to the terms of your
|| Service Agreement and calling plan, which apply to all
|| lines on your account. Please read those materials for
|| full details.
|
| Doh! You might have been more specific. "I checked with
| our system administrator...". Could mean "John, can they
| get to QNC and 1xRTT on AC2?", "Sure, AC2 doesn't change
| any services they can access".
|
| The followup might be to ask about how the billing works
| for that.

I just shifted to AC2 and I DID ask specifically if there would be any
change in charges for access to QNC and 1xRTT - and was assured that there
would be no additional charges beyond minute usage as usual......

PC




|
| -Quick

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:54:37 -0800, Proconsul wrote:

> Quick wrote:
>| cmoschip wrote:
>|| Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with
>|| Verizon today and am moving to the AC2. I specifically
>|| asked for confirmation I will still have access to both
>|| Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through DUN from a
>|| notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.
>||
>|| Dear Robert Xxxx,
>||
>|| Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website.
>|| We are pleased to assist with your inquiry.
>||
>|| I checked with our system administrator and they
>|| confirmed that you will have access to both 1xrtt and
>|| Quick2Net on America's Choice II.
>||
>|| We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our
>|| website for any of your future needs. Again, thank you
>|| for using Verizon Wireless products and services.
>||
>|| Sincerely,
>||
>|| Gary
>|| Verizon Wireless
>|| Customer Service
>||
>|| "We never stop working for you!"
>||
>|| The above response is subject to the terms of your
>|| Service Agreement and calling plan, which apply to all
>|| lines on your account. Please read those materials for
>|| full details.
>|
>| Doh! You might have been more specific. "I checked with
>| our system administrator...". Could mean "John, can they
>| get to QNC and 1xRTT on AC2?", "Sure, AC2 doesn't change
>| any services they can access".
>|
>| The followup might be to ask about how the billing works
>| for that.
>
> I just shifted to AC2 and I DID ask specifically if there would be any
> change in charges for access to QNC and 1xRTT - and was assured that there
> would be no additional charges beyond minute usage as usual......
>
> PC

Keep in mind 1XRTT is also used for GIN.

The WRITTEN terms and conditions for AC2 specifcally state:

"INTERNET ACCESS

Mobile Office Kits, PC Cards, PDAs or other wireless modem devices may not
be used for Internet access without a subscription to select VZAccess
plans."

Get it in writing or you have no recourse if you are billed for the data
usage.

CellGuy wrote:
| On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:54:37 -0800, Proconsul wrote:
|
|| Quick wrote:
||| cmoschip wrote:
|||| Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with
|||| Verizon today and am moving to the AC2. I specifically
|||| asked for confirmation I will still have access to both
|||| Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through DUN from a
|||| notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.
||||
|||| Dear Robert Xxxx,
||||
|||| Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website.
|||| We are pleased to assist with your inquiry.
||||
|||| I checked with our system administrator and they
|||| confirmed that you will have access to both 1xrtt and
|||| Quick2Net on America's Choice II.
||||
|||| We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our
|||| website for any of your future needs. Again, thank you
|||| for using Verizon Wireless products and services.
||||
|||| Sincerely,
||||
|||| Gary
|||| Verizon Wireless
|||| Customer Service
||||
|||| "We never stop working for you!"
||||
|||| The above response is subject to the terms of your
|||| Service Agreement and calling plan, which apply to all
|||| lines on your account. Please read those materials for
|||| full details.
|||
||| Doh! You might have been more specific. "I checked with
||| our system administrator...". Could mean "John, can they
||| get to QNC and 1xRTT on AC2?", "Sure, AC2 doesn't change
||| any services they can access".
|||
||| The followup might be to ask about how the billing works
||| for that.
||
|| I just shifted to AC2 and I DID ask specifically if there would be
|| any change in charges for access to QNC and 1xRTT - and was assured
|| that there would be no additional charges beyond minute usage as
|| usual......
||
|| PC
|
| Keep in mind 1XRTT is also used for GIN.
|
| The WRITTEN terms and conditions for AC2 specifcally state:
|
| "INTERNET ACCESS
|
| Mobile Office Kits, PC Cards, PDAs or other wireless modem devices
| may not be used for Internet access without a subscription to select
| VZAccess plans."
|
| Get it in writing or you have no recourse if you are billed for the
| data usage.

I shall "check again" - there was no new contract executed - my existing
contract was merely renewed for an additional year......no charge AND,
allegedly, no CHANGE in terms beyond the roaming changes implicit in
AC2.....

My existing contract - FYI - does NOT contain the caveat you quote
above......

Things are getting more complicated every day..... That's the nature of
competition - and it's a healthy nature.....

PC

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:54:37 -0800, "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:


>
>I just shifted to AC2 and I DID ask specifically if there would be any
>change in charges for access to QNC and 1xRTT - and was assured that there
>would be no additional charges beyond minute usage as usual......

I switched today, have 5 different answers from Verizon, all on two
classes. Reason was to take advantage of new every two. The store was
unable to extend my existing contract. (reason unknown)

However, my new contract explicitly includes "National Enhanced Svc
Access" which all Verizon folks agreed in now the shortened NationalAccess
verbiage.

The folks at the store were brain dead, claimed:

- AC2 has all the coverage AC1 had, just no roaming charges.

- I wouldn't be prorated since my new plan and old plan had exactly the
minutes - 1000. 611 Reps disagreed - said I was prorated. My billing date
is tomorrow so dividing by 31x24x7 left me with abt 32 minutes for today,
not the 550 left over.

- no X1 data without another plan. I showed them the contract they printed
and asked them to explain "National Enhanced Svc Access" - they were
speechless. Two 611 reps (one tech in data) stated "National Enhanced Svc
Access" = "NationalAccess" regarding 1X data. Billed for air time only.

All this garbage has been noted on my account.

The 611 rep and tech agreed that some devices such as PDA's need a data
account.

The most fun was the store (after I called back) trying to explain how pro
rating "helped" the customer! I paid for 1000 minutes the entire month,
yet my 550 minute balance became 32 minutes - really helped me play with
my new phones! I did pick the day so it would be a short term issue, not
trusting Verizon.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

gerry wrote:
>
> The most fun was the store (after I called back) trying
> to explain how pro rating "helped" the customer! I paid
> for 1000 minutes the entire month, yet my 550 minute
> balance became 32 minutes - really helped me play with my
> new phones! I did pick the day so it would be a short
> term issue, not trusting Verizon.

Do you understand how the pro-rate is calculated?

-Quick

gerry wrote:
| [original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
| On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:54:37 -0800, "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org>
| wrote:
|
|
||
|| I just shifted to AC2 and I DID ask specifically if there would be
|| any change in charges for access to QNC and 1xRTT - and was assured
|| that there would be no additional charges beyond minute usage as
|| usual......
|
| I switched today, have 5 different answers from Verizon, all on two
| classes. Reason was to take advantage of new every two. The store was
| unable to extend my existing contract. (reason unknown)
|
| However, my new contract explicitly includes "National Enhanced Svc
| Access" which all Verizon folks agreed in now the shortened
| NationalAccess verbiage.
|
| The folks at the store were brain dead, claimed:
|
| - AC2 has all the coverage AC1 had, just no roaming charges.
|
| - I wouldn't be prorated since my new plan and old plan had exactly
| the minutes - 1000. 611 Reps disagreed - said I was prorated. My
| billing date is tomorrow so dividing by 31x24x7 left me with abt 32
| minutes for today, not the 550 left over.
|
| - no X1 data without another plan. I showed them the contract they
| printed and asked them to explain "National Enhanced Svc Access" -
| they were speechless. Two 611 reps (one tech in data) stated
| "National Enhanced Svc Access" = "NationalAccess" regarding 1X data.
| Billed for air time only.
|
| All this garbage has been noted on my account.
|
| The 611 rep and tech agreed that some devices such as PDA's need a
| data account.
|
| The most fun was the store (after I called back) trying to explain
| how pro rating "helped" the customer! I paid for 1000 minutes the
| entire month, yet my 550 minute balance became 32 minutes - really
| helped me play with my new phones! I did pick the day so it would be
| a short term issue, not trusting Verizon.

It seems you got to the same place I did - but by a more circuitous
route....

As I said in another message, I did NOT execute a new contract but merely
extended the existing contract - as per the Verizon people themselves - I
had, and still have "National Access"....and will be billed for air time
only.....

PC




|
| gerry

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:21:02 GMT, CellGuy <cellguy@seemessagebody.com>
wrote:


>Keep in mind 1XRTT is also used for GIN.
>
>The WRITTEN terms and conditions for AC2 specifcally state:
>
>"INTERNET ACCESS
>
>Mobile Office Kits, PC Cards, PDAs or other wireless modem devices may not
>be used for Internet access without a subscription to select VZAccess
>plans."
>
>Get it in writing or you have no recourse if you are billed for the data
>usage.

That is on a Verizon web page, not in my contract! Do you have a contract
that includes those words?

My new contract AC (2) explicitly contains

"National Enhanced Svc Access"

as included.

Verizon 611 reps (not store which was clueless) consistently state that
translates to "NationalAccess" billed as airtime minutes only. (free N&W
still billed as free air time = $0.00)

All 611 reps also consistently stated you can't put a PDA or other data
device on a "voice" plan such as AC.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

gerry wrote:
> [original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:21:02 GMT, CellGuy
> <cellguy@seemessagebody.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Keep in mind 1XRTT is also used for GIN.
>>
>> The WRITTEN terms and conditions for AC2 specifcally
>> state:
>>
>> "INTERNET ACCESS
>>
>> Mobile Office Kits, PC Cards, PDAs or other wireless
>> modem devices may not be used for Internet access
>> without a subscription to select VZAccess plans."
>>
>> Get it in writing or you have no recourse if you are
>> billed for the data usage.
>
> That is on a Verizon web page, not in my contract! Do you
> have a contract that includes those words?
>
> My new contract AC (2) explicitly contains
>
> "National Enhanced Svc Access"
>
> as included.
>
> Verizon 611 reps (not store which was clueless)
> consistently state that translates to "NationalAccess"
> billed as airtime minutes only. (free N&W still billed as
> free air time = $0.00)
>
> All 611 reps also consistently stated you can't put a PDA
> or other data device on a "voice" plan such as AC.

I think you're mixing your levels here.

Saying that "National Enahance Svc Access is included"
could be ambiguous and depends on what this means.
I may simply mean that your plan is enabled for 1xRTT
connections. If it only goes that far, it doesn't include
how these connections are allowed to be used.

Features like GIN and Picture messaging require 1xRTT
connections (bandwidth) or better to be really usable.
VZW, in the past (and probably still), automatically
enables this feature to enable those services. There
isn't an easy way to block internet access using 1xRTT
connections and still allow the others. Technically they
could but this would have to be implemented on the
routers. Maybe not practicle performance wise since the
routers are not really tightly coupled with the billing
system.

I believe that VZWs intention is to charge for data
connections directly to the internet (not through some
GIN thing or Soda Pop email, etc.). They have data
plans intended for this.

VZW's plan seems to be to sell services. High bandwidth
connections are needed for serivces like GIN and Pic
msging. They also want to sell an "ISP" service for
direct data access to the internet in the form of data
plans.

Right now the direct data access from a regular phone
is inconsequential. PDA phones can be more significant
with more elaborate browsers, terminal emulation, file
copy, email clients, etc. The transitional glitch right now
involves phones functioning as a modem. The data
connection is only identified as a data connection. It
may not be readily evident what application will be
using it at call/connection setup time. I believe that
currently this is only restricted by terms of use in
the service agreement.

So initially they fired up 1xRTT and enabled all accounts
for it about the time they launched picture messaging.
Now they are identifying PDA phones by ESN and requiring
a data plan. I believe it won't be long before they close
off the "free" data access that is sort of a loophole right
now. I think they could charge for it at present and point
to your contract for grounds. Probably not significant
revenue compared to the administrative cost and negative
PR in a transitional period but it will happen at some point.

-Quick

I snipped the guestion which specifically asked if I would have the same
access with only airtima being used - no additional charges. yes his answer
probably wouldn't mattee if they do charge but I feel a little better. ill
send another clarification in end get him to be specific so I can have a
worthless email to protect me.

Reply to message from "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> (Thu, 10 Mar
2005 21:00:54) about "Re: AC2 and Data access":

Q> cmoschip wrote:
>> Not that this means anything but I renewed a plan with Verizon today
>> and am moving to the AC2. I specifically asked for confirmation I will
>> still have access to both Quick2Net and 1XRTT data access through DUN
>> from a notebook and/or PDA. I got this in response.

>> Dear Robert Xxxx,

>> Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are pleased
>> to assist with your inquiry.

>> I checked with our system administrator and they confirmed that you
>> will have access to both 1xrtt and Quick2Net on America's Choice II.

>> We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our website for any
>> of your future needs. Again, thank you for using Verizon Wireless
>> products and services.

>> Sincerely,

>> Gary
>> Verizon Wireless
>> Customer Service

>> "We never stop working for you!"

>> The above response is subject to the terms of your Service Agreement
>> and calling plan, which apply to all lines on your account. Please read
>> those materials for full details.

Q> Doh! You might have been more specific. "I checked with our system
Q> administrator...". Could mean "John, can they get to QNC and
Q> 1xRTT on AC2?", "Sure, AC2 doesn't change any services they can
Q> access".

Q> The followup might be to ask about how the billing works for that.

Q> -Quick





- robert -

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