Re: Verizon won't let me replace analog phone

The only reason I need analog is because they won't let me change to digital
phones with my existing call plan. I'd be glad to go digital for the newer
smaller phones with much better battery life. All digital plans are
significantly more expensive. My monthly bill for 2 phones is usually under
$20

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:52:27 GMT, "JOHN D" <jawnd393one@yahoo.com> chose to
add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>We have a old analog plan with low monthly fees, 2 phones and no free
>minutes. The only charge for the 2nd phone is the minutes used on it..
>I wanted to replace one of the phones with a used newer model. Verizon says
>they can't activate a analog phone that doesn't have some kind of special
>911 support. They said FCC laws won't let them. They said there were no new
>analog phones that can be used on our existing plan. They said if our old
>phones died we'd couldnt get analog phones to continue our existing plan.
>Our old phones are MicroTAC 650's The newer phone I wanted to use is a
>MicroTAC Elite. How much of what they told me is true..

It's all true, although some of the details aren't correct as stated. But
I'm not sure it's relevant to your need to get a new phone.

I may be wrong, but I'm not sure there's really such a thing as an "analog
plan." I would suggest you try to go ahead and activate an E911 compatible
phone on your account and see what happens. My bet is that even if you
don't upgrade your plan to give them more revenue, they will still be happy
to have you switch to a current model phone. My boss still has his very
first Ameritech Cellular $9.95 plan with no minutes[1] and no long
distance, but a few years ago they let him put a new Star Tac on it and I
bet if he bought another new phone now he could still activate it on his
existing plan.

[1] .25/min. peak, .12 off-peak, plus .02/min. "interconnect fee." One of
these days, I'll have to ask him if they still charge the interconnect fee.

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Larry wrote:

> None of it. If you were an analog customer, they must allow you analog
> service, last time I asked the FCC, not the carriers....unless that has
> changed very recently.

Nothing's changed Larry. Including the fact that you are once again, wrong.

Verizon is legally required to offer a minimum level of AMPS service to
customers with existing, active (or roaming), working equipment, until
February of 2008. If that equipment breaks, they are under no
obligation to provide equivalent AMPS equipment as a replacement. Nor
are they obligated to activate any "new" AMPS-only equipment on their
network.

In fact, as far as the FCC is concerned, they shouldn't be activating
ANYTHING that isn't E911-capable. And AMPS equipment is most certainly
not E911-capable.

Bottom line: If you manage to keep your existing AMPS gear up and
running and don't ever deactivate it for any reason, then Verizon has to
provide at least one AMPS channel to work with in coverage areas where
they previously offered AMPS, until '08. But the second that gear is
taken off the active list on the network, it's gone for good. Though
I'm sure Cellular Express will gladly fleece you for $1.99 a minute in
roaming fees if you insist on using your bag phone anyway.


> Email the FCC at fccinfo@fcc.gov and ask them. They don't bite.

Yes, he should. They'll gladly correct your error.




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When I went to one bill for my Verizon cell, land line, and DSL, I lost the
ability to log in to my account at verizonwireless.com. I don't see any link
from the landline/DSL verizon site to the wireless account . So I don't see
any online link to update the phone, or change the ESN. How does one change
the ESN on there verizon account? I have 2 phones I might try. A motorola
MicroTAC Elite flip phone and a LG LCD-330W. The LG is s dual mode phone but
apparantly doesn't have the E911 support.
John

"JOHN D" <jawnd393one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news_mzf.19164$h47.6506@trnddc08...
> I have 2 phones I might try. A motorola MicroTAC Elite flip phone and a
LG LCD-330W.
>
> Correction, It's a LGC-330W

Much of what they said. They can refuse to activate a new phone, however
what they cannot force you to do is to is give up your existing plan if you
pay a non subsidized (retail?) price for the phone.

"JOHN D" <jawnd393one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9Jyf.12839$Di.2353@trnddc06...
> We have a old analog plan with low monthly fees, 2 phones and no free
> minutes. The only charge for the 2nd phone is the minutes used on it..
> I wanted to replace one of the phones with a used newer model. Verizon
> says
> they can't activate a analog phone that doesn't have some kind of special
> 911 support. They said FCC laws won't let them. They said there were no
> new
> analog phones that can be used on our existing plan. They said if our old
> phones died we'd couldnt get analog phones to continue our existing plan.
> Our old phones are MicroTAC 650's The newer phone I wanted to use is a
> MicroTAC Elite. How much of what they told me is true..
>
>

They can not make you give up your plan until they turn the analog
system off. You can still keep on paying your monthly bill, but if you
do not have a working phone, they will not activate a different phone,
no matter where you bought it or how much you paid for it.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 04:34:51 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
<jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote:

> They can not make you give up your plan until they turn the analog
>system off. You can still keep on paying your monthly bill, but if you
>do not have a working phone, they will not activate a different phone,
>no matter where you bought it or how much you paid for it.

I believe that most mobile phone suppliers will allow you to keep an
old plan, but there is not, other than a commitment that may have been
in a contract, any obligation for them to do so.

Larry will pop in here that the fact that you had an analog plan
requires them to continue to allow you to have an analog phone on that
plan; whether true or not I don't know.

But, AFAIK, NO PROVIDER will now allow putting a device on ANY plan
that does not work with THEIR enhanced 911 capability. Note that GPS
is not the enhanced 911 method used by all providers, but there seem
to be problems complying with government mandated accuracy by some of
the other methods.

I would SUSPECT that a combination digital/analog ("tri-mode") CDMA
phone would be allowed, and further that they would allow you to use
the digital capability as digital uses less bandwidth than analog. For
them to not allow you to keep that plan after they eliminate analog
capability in some future year would seem a reasonable possibility. I
doubt they make any money on a $9.95 a month plan whether it is used
or not.

GeorgeB wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 04:34:51 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
> <jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> They can not make you give up your plan until they turn the analog
>> system off. You can still keep on paying your monthly bill, but if you
>> do not have a working phone, they will not activate a different phone,
>> no matter where you bought it or how much you paid for it.
>
> I believe that most mobile phone suppliers will allow you to keep an
> old plan, but there is not, other than a commitment that may have been
> in a contract, any obligation for them to do so.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you're under contract, then of
course Verizon or any other cell carrier has to let you keep the plan,
or at the very least release you from contract obligation if they make
you give up that plan. However, I suspect that most, if not all, analog
users have been off-contract for a very long time. And while most
carriers are very gentlemanly about letting you ride out a plan until
you decide to change something, being off-contract pretty much means
that either side can terminate service at any time.

> Larry will pop in here that the fact that you had an analog plan
> requires them to continue to allow you to have an analog phone on that
> plan; whether true or not I don't know.

Legally, no, unless you've somehow duped the carrier into putting a
contract term on your plan taht extneds into the future. Woe be the
wireless employee that allows THAT to happen.

> But, AFAIK, NO PROVIDER will now allow putting a device on ANY plan
> that does not work with THEIR enhanced 911 capability.

No *AGPS*-implemented carrier, anyway. If you're on a GSM network, then
any old GSM handset is technically "e911 capable" because most GSM
networks decided to make LBS a network-side function (at greater
difficulty and reduced accuracy, I might add).

Most CDMA carriers, however, opted for AGPS which has had fewer
deployment problems (except for the whole some-luddites-won't-upgrade
thing). And now, if a phone isn't already on the network that lacks
AGPS and is not e911 complaint, then woe be the wireless employee that
allows it BACK on.

> I would SUSPECT that a combination digital/analog ("tri-mode") CDMA
> phone would be allowed

Correct, if it has GPS.

> , and further that they would allow you to use
> the digital capability as digital uses less bandwidth than analog.

They'll allow analog too, if you can force your phone into that mode.



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They must allow you to continue with AMPS service, they are not allowed
to activate new phones on it. All phones are required by the FCC to be
E911 capable now and AMPS does not allow for it.

Larry wrote:
> "JOHN D" <jawnd393one@yahoo.com> wrote in news:f9Jyf.12839$Di.2353
> @trnddc06:
>
>
>>How much of what they told me is true..
>>
>
>
> None of it. If you were an analog customer, they must allow you analog
> service, last time I asked the FCC, not the carriers....unless that has
> changed very recently.
>
> Email the FCC at fccinfo@fcc.gov and ask them. They don't bite. If they
> tell you the carrier must still provide you AMPS service, reply to that
> email and ask them, very nicely, to call your carrier's phone number to
> inform them of their responsibility. Give the FCC your specific phone
> number, account number, etc. so they can address this issue for you,
> personally. I bet your old bagphone will be back on the air in no
> time...(c;
>
> Everyone is always more cooperative when it's the cops askin' the
> questions....
>

because he is on an analog plan

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>>We have a old analog plan with low monthly fees, 2 phones and no free
>>minutes. The only charge for the 2nd phone is the minutes used on it..
>>I wanted to replace one of the phones with a used newer model. Verizon says
>>they can't activate a analog phone that doesn't have some kind of special
>>911 support. They said FCC laws won't let them. They said there were no new
>>analog phones that can be used on our existing plan. They said if our old
>>phones died we'd couldnt get analog phones to continue our existing plan.
>>Our old phones are MicroTAC 650's The newer phone I wanted to use is a
>>MicroTAC Elite. How much of what they told me is true..
>
>
> Ask them why you can't use an E911 digital/analgue phone.
>
> -Joel
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free 35mm lens & digital camera reviews: http://www.exc.com/photography
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Most CDMA carriers, however, opted for AGPS which has had fewer
> deployment problems (except for the whole some-luddites-won't-upgrade
> thing).

I'm no luddite, but I know a good phone when I have one. The only thing
that pried my StarTAC out of my hands was the fact that my charging
connector was going bad, and the wife's is about due. Of course, the
Bluetooth headset soothes some of the pain of parting.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

They make external chargers that allow you to remove the battery and place
it in a charger to charge. The StarTac has a easy to remove battery in any
phone I've seen.

"clifto" <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:tl6da3-nqs.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
> Isaiah Beard wrote:
>> Most CDMA carriers, however, opted for AGPS which has had fewer
>> deployment problems (except for the whole some-luddites-won't-upgrade
>> thing).
>
> I'm no luddite, but I know a good phone when I have one. The only thing
> that pried my StarTAC out of my hands was the fact that my charging
> connector was going bad, and the wife's is about due. Of course, the
> Bluetooth headset soothes some of the pain of parting.
>
> --
> If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
> my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Chris Sweeney wrote:
> They must allow you to continue with AMPS service, they are not allowed
> to activate new phones on it. All phones are required by the FCC to be
> E911 capable now and AMPS does not allow for it.

The requirement is that all digital handsets activated be E911 capable.
There is no such requirement for AMPS handsets. There are carriers that
continue to offer AMPS only handsets.

This assumes that tri-mode handsets that are not E911 capable cannot be
activated, though some could argue that these are not in fact digital
handsets, because they aren't 100% digital.

SMS wrote:

> The requirement is that all digital handsets activated be E911 capable.
> There is no such requirement for AMPS handsets. There are carriers that
> continue to offer AMPS only handsets.

There is no such requirement for AMPS handsets mainly because:

1. Most AMPS-only carriers that remain are mom-and-pop rural outfits
that applied for and received exemptions on e911 compliance, and,

2. Those few AMPS-only carriers who didn't get an exemption are
deploying TDOA (Time Distance of Arrival) on their networks to enable
e911 without requiring anything of the handsets.

Seeing as most CDMA carriers with legacy AMPS didn't go the TDOA route,
they have to compensate by not allowing AMPS gear back on the network
once the gear is deactivated.





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