Can You Believe Me Now? Truth Rare in Phone Ads

"It's ridiculous," said Edgar Dworsky, editor of Consumerworld.org and
Mouseprint.org, a new Web site that checks the accuracy of ads. "You're
told some unknown, unnamed company has rated Cingular the best in terms
of dropped calls, but you're not given any comparison data."

"http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/BUSINESS/604250434/1178"

See: "http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006059"

Hmmm... JMO but truth is rare in any ad...

--
-Dan-

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:14:04 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>"It's ridiculous," said Edgar Dworsky, editor of Consumerworld.org and
>Mouseprint.org, a new Web site that checks the accuracy of ads. "You're
>told some unknown, unnamed company has rated Cingular the best in terms
>of dropped calls, but you're not given any comparison data."
>
>"http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/BUSINESS/604250434/1178"

So it turns out; when you don't like the data from well established,
credible surveys, you can just go ahead and create your own "leading
independent research company" and get the results you want.


A_C

Agent_C wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:14:04 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "It's ridiculous," said Edgar Dworsky, editor of Consumerworld.org and
>> Mouseprint.org, a new Web site that checks the accuracy of ads. "You're
>> told some unknown, unnamed company has rated Cingular the best in terms
>> of dropped calls, but you're not given any comparison data."
>>
>> "http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/BUSINESS/604250434/1178"
>
> So it turns out; when you don't like the data from well established,
> credible surveys, you can just go ahead and create your own "leading
> independent research company" and get the results you want.

And selectively choose which finding to use in your advertising.

This is why you really only want to look at unbiased studies that are
conducted with large samples and sound statistical methodology. The
Consumer Reports study, and to a lesser extent the JD Power study, are
the two studies that the experts agree are the most accurate in terms of
their findings. Not surprisingly, Cingular wasn't too happy with the
good studies, so they went out and created one of their own.

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4450dfbd$0$1505$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> So it turns out; when you don't like the data from well established,
>> credible surveys, you can just go ahead and create your own "leading
>> independent research company" and get the results you want.
>
> And selectively choose which finding to use in your advertising.

Indeed! I don't think this practice is at all new, however... the goal of a
press release is to provide the appearance of a "news" item while actually
creating advertising. I've seen single man "companies" where the guy would
create press releases discussing his company's "worldwide infrastructure" and
"leading position in the industry" -- if you give yourself enough wiggle room,
you can pretty much say anything.

> This is why you really only want to look at unbiased studies that are
> conducted with large samples and sound statistical methodology. The Consumer
> Reports study, and to a lesser extent the JD Power study, are the two
> studies that the experts agree are the most accurate in terms of their
> findings.

I've been told that while the JD Powers is on the "up and up," they will go
and conduct very specific surveys for you, so that if you (1) have the money
and (2) can come up with a "class" that sounds general but is actually quite
specific (e.g., something like "best phone performance on a GSM phone
network," which inherently cuts out Sprint & most othere, even though most
consumers aren't aware of this) they'll still gladly take your money and
perform the survey for you -- which you've thereby inherently hedged towards
being positive.

Joel Kolstad wrote:

> I've been told that while the JD Powers is on the "up and up," they will go
> and conduct very specific surveys for you, so that if you (1) have the money
> and (2) can come up with a "class" that sounds general but is actually quite
> specific (e.g., something like "best phone performance on a GSM phone
> network," which inherently cuts out Sprint & most othere, even though most
> consumers aren't aware of this) they'll still gladly take your money and
> perform the survey for you -- which you've thereby inherently hedged towards
> being positive.

Yes, this is true about many of the JD Powers studies, especially
regarding automobiles.

I love comparing the "initial quality study" with the "long term
dependability" study, since the two reach such different conclusions.
Who really cares how good their vehicle rates in the first three months
of ownership, when this isn't a predictor of long term dependability?

Exactly. Hmm, let's see, initial quality ratings would tend to favor the car
which looks and feels great for exactly 91 days, then falls apart----would I
have that about right?


Dean
_________________________________________
SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4450f2a4$0$1586$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Joel Kolstad wrote:
>
>> I've been told that while the JD Powers is on the "up and up," they will
>> go and conduct very specific surveys for you, so that if you (1) have the
>> money and (2) can come up with a "class" that sounds general but is
>> actually quite specific (e.g., something like "best phone performance on
>> a GSM phone network," which inherently cuts out Sprint & most othere,
>> even though most consumers aren't aware of this) they'll still gladly
>> take your money and perform the survey for you -- which you've thereby
>> inherently hedged towards being positive.
>
> Yes, this is true about many of the JD Powers studies, especially
> regarding automobiles.
>
> I love comparing the "initial quality study" with the "long term
> dependability" study, since the two reach such different conclusions. Who
> really cares how good their vehicle rates in the first three months of
> ownership, when this isn't a predictor of long term dependability?

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <4450f2a4$0$1586$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> on Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:35:04
-0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>Joel Kolstad wrote:
>
>> I've been told that while the JD Powers is on the "up and up," they will go
>> and conduct very specific surveys for you, so that if you (1) have the money
>> and (2) can come up with a "class" that sounds general but is actually quite
>> specific (e.g., something like "best phone performance on a GSM phone
>> network," which inherently cuts out Sprint & most othere, even though most
>> consumers aren't aware of this) they'll still gladly take your money and
>> perform the survey for you -- which you've thereby inherently hedged towards
>> being positive.
>
>Yes, this is true about many of the JD Powers studies, especially
>regarding automobiles.
>
>I love comparing the "initial quality study" with the "long term
>dependability" study, since the two reach such different conclusions.

Not surprising, since these are quite different things.

>Who really cares how good their vehicle rates in the first three months
>of ownership, when this isn't a predictor of long term dependability?

Many people, since these are quite different things.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Valid point earlier about J D Power surveys. They have a "name" so that
lends credibility.

But I saw an ad for a Pontiac or something the other day on TV and
noticed the car and a trophy and the "category" was something like,
"Best new entry-level economy sedan."

What the hell does that mean? By the time you filter out all cars that
aren't new, entries, economy (whatever that means), and sedans...how
many are left?

Big Kahuna wrote:
> Valid point earlier about J D Power surveys. They have a "name" so that
> lends credibility.
>
> But I saw an ad for a Pontiac or something the other day on TV and
> noticed the car and a trophy and the "category" was something like,
> "Best new entry-level economy sedan."
>
> What the hell does that mean? By the time you filter out all cars that
> aren't new, entries, economy (whatever that means), and sedans...how
> many are left?

One.

Some of the JD Power Surveys are real surveys, i.e. Long Term
Dependability Studies, and some are studies commissioned by a company
for the purpose of coming up with something, anything, that can be used
in advertising. There are many of those bogus surveys done by JD Power,
which hurts their reputation somewhat.

When a company comes out and makes a statement about how a survey, that
one of their clients paid for, is being misused, that's a pretty
powerful statement, but that's what the NY Times article says happened
in the case of the "lowest dropped call" claim by Cingular. And of
course it should be pointed out that even if the claim were true, the
fewest number of dropped calls is just one tiny factor in the selection
of a wireless carrier, but Cingular is trying to imply that having the
fewest dropped calls, means that their network is somehow the best, when
indpendent surveys have concluded the oppositie.

It's advertising and implicature gone wild, as is often the case when a
company is desperately reaching out for something, anything, to counter
independent surveys.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <4458ee0c$0$96965$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> on Wed, 03 May 2006 10:53:16
-0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>Big Kahuna wrote:
>> Valid point earlier about J D Power surveys. They have a "name" so that
>> lends credibility.
>>
>> But I saw an ad for a Pontiac or something the other day on TV and
>> noticed the car and a trophy and the "category" was something like,
>> "Best new entry-level economy sedan."
>>
>> What the hell does that mean? By the time you filter out all cars that
>> aren't new, entries, economy (whatever that means), and sedans...how
>> many are left?
>
>One.

Nonsense.

>Some of the JD Power Surveys are real surveys, i.e. Long Term
>Dependability Studies, and some are studies commissioned by a company
>for the purpose of coming up with something, anything, that can be used
>in advertising. There are many of those bogus surveys done by JD Power,
>which hurts their reputation somewhat.

More nonsense. JD Power is well-respected and has a big stake in being
objective and even-handed, because tilting toward one client would hurt it
with competing clients.

>When a company comes out and makes a statement about how a survey, that
>one of their clients paid for, is being misused, that's a pretty
>powerful statement, but that's what the NY Times article says happened
>in the case of the "lowest dropped call" claim by Cingular.

Even more nonsense. What it actually said:

In a letter sent on Monday to the four largest wireless companies,
Telephia confirmed that Cingular had a "statistically significant
lower dropped-call rate than the competition across some market/time
period groupings." But Telephia also said it had "no knowledge of the
specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped
call' conclusion."

>And of
>course it should be pointed out that even if the claim were true, the
>fewest number of dropped calls is just one tiny factor in the selection
>of a wireless carrier, but Cingular is trying to imply that having the
>fewest dropped calls, means that their network is somehow the best, when
>indpendent surveys have concluded the oppositie.

Yet more nonsense. Those surveys are no more accurate than carriers own
claims, as I've explained previously.

>It's advertising and implicature gone wild, as is often the case when a
>company is desperately reaching out for something, anything, to counter
>independent surveys.

Again from the NY Times:

Take Verizon Wireless. Since early 2005, the company has run ads
promoting its network reliability. Some of the ads highlight the fact
that about 100 of the company's engineers drive around the country
making calls to compare Verizon phones with those of other carriers.
Not surprisingly, Verizon has found that it has the best service.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

SMS wrote:
> "lowest dropped call" claim by Cingular

I don't know what others' experience might be, but I've had exactly one
dropped call in the past 365 days, and that was the other night when the
other person's battery was discharged enough to shut down his phone. So
I don't see why I'd switch carriers to get a lower dropped-call rate.

For me, a lower dropped-call rate would mean I couldn't drop the ones I
wanted to drop.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

clifto wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> "lowest dropped call" claim by Cingular
>
> I don't know what others' experience might be, but I've had exactly one
> dropped call in the past 365 days, and that was the other night when the
> other person's battery was discharged enough to shut down his phone. So
> I don't see why I'd switch carriers to get a lower dropped-call rate.
>
> For me, a lower dropped-call rate would mean I couldn't drop the ones I
> wanted to drop.

With all the stupid features on newer phones, they've left off one that
would actually be useful. I want a button that I can press that will
start adding static, and after five seconds or so, drop the call. That
would be a good way of getting rid of people that I don't want to talk to.

Dropped calls are a non-issue for most people. The only time I've
dropped calls recently is when I was in a marginal AMPS-only coverage
area on highway 88 going to Lake Tahoe. There was no CDMA, TDMA, or GSM
coverage, only AMPS. If I had stopped the car, I could have maintained
the connection, but I went into an area where the tower was blocked by a
mountain.

What Cingular is doing with their current ad campaign is called "side
issue specialization." They pick an insignificant advantage (if it
exists at all, which is not clear) and try to extrapolate the meaning of
it far beyond its significance. It's more telling to look at what they
don't say. They never claim to have the most or the best coverage.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <445a59ad$0$96940$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> on Thu, 04 May 2006 12:44:47
-0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>What Cingular is doing with their current ad campaign is called "side
>issue specialization." They pick an insignificant advantage (if it
>exists at all, which is not clear) and try to extrapolate the meaning of
>it far beyond its significance. It's more telling to look at what they
>don't say. They never claim to have the most or the best coverage.

Wrong on all counts (as usual).

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>