Re: Unlocked iphone sells for $1106 in France, $1471 in Germany

eatfastnoodle <d12s34f56@gmail.com> wrote:

> WTF? Seriously, iphone is good, but iphone isn't that good, simply
> unbelievable. Nothing more than naked attempts by Apple's French and
> German partners to torpedo the sale of unlocked iphone. Apple may be
> caught in the crossfire which may result in Apple being damned no
> matter what. Europeans don't like locked phone, so cheaper but locked
> iphone will have significant barrier to overcome before people can be
> convinced to buy it. But the price of unlocked iphone is outrageous.
> Nobody in his right mind would pay that price for a cell phone, not
> even the hardest hardcore Apple fan.

well, it is the top cell phone in the world by several orders of
magnitude, so these prices seem quite reasonable for such power.

the actual numbers are here:

* 749 euros ($1,109) unlocked iPhone, no contract
* 649 euros ($956) locked iPhone, no contract
* 549 euros ($809) unlocked iPhone, with Orange contract
* 399 euros ($588) locked iPhone, with Orange contract
* 100 euros ($147) to unlock a locked iPhone

the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
power in such a small, long lasting package.

Orange in France has already sold 50,000 sight unseen, so Apple is
starting to enter into the "intelligent" portion of the cell market.

Apple up $5.41 on the news.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:29:28 -0700, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:

>the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
>people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
>power in such a small, long lasting package.

Still running an 8088, are you?

-- Larry

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:49:07 -0700, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:

>> >the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
>> >people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
>> >power in such a small, long lasting package.
>>
>> Still running an 8088, are you?
>
>nope, the iPhone runs a 620Mhz ARM processor, which run circles around
>most smartphones and all cell phone currently on the market.

That could be, but the description wasn't "run[s] circles around most
smartphones and all cell phone[s]"; it was "the iphone is really a high powered
laptop".

-- Larry

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:29:28 -0700, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:


>
>well, it is the top cell phone in the world by several orders of
>magnitude, so these prices seem quite reasonable for such power.

I love it when some dummy uses the expression "several orders of
magnitude" without knowing what it means.

How much better is the iPhone then? 10,000 times? 100,000 times?
One million times? How in the world are you quantifying that,
Einstein? What are you measuring?

In article
<43fbb768-9bda-4cc4-a416-ffa8cae3336f@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Edwin <thorne25@juno.com> wrote:

> On Nov 28, 11:49 pm, LoSebal <lse...@well.com> wrote:
> > pltrgyst <pltrg...@spamlessxhost.org> wrote:
> > > >the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
> > > >people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
> > > >power in such a small, long lasting package.
> >
> > > Still running an 8088, are you?
> >
> > nope, the iPhone runs a 620Mhz ARM processor, which run circles around
> > most smartphones and all cell phone currently on the market.
> >
> > http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/i...nd-620mhz-arm/
>
> Other cell phones aren't running a desktop OS, so they don't need a
> desktop processor or anything like 8 GB of RAM.

So, since you insist that Mac OS X is "just BSD", then BSD is always a
desktop OS, is it?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

nespammezpas@antispam.net (Bill) wrote:

> I love it when some dummy uses the expression "several orders of
> magnitude" without knowing what it means.
>
> How much better is the iPhone then? 10,000 times? 100,000 times?
> One million times? How in the world are you quantifying that,
> Einstein? What are you measuring?

usability and function, dumb ass, the iPhone rules the cell world now,
so learn to accept it.

In article <18ksk3lofos3e1m277040i58a0fadpq4tu@4ax.com>,
pltrgyst <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:29:28 -0700, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:
>
> >the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
> >people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
> >power in such a small, long lasting package.
>
> Still running an 8088, are you?

8088? That's off by a couple of decades.

It's nonsense to call the iPhone a "high-powered laptop", of course. But
it does have as much RAM (128 MB), as much storage (8 GB), and probably
as much CPU performance as a typical consumer desktop of 6-7 years ago.

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

On 2007-11-29, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:
> the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
> people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
> power in such a small, long lasting package.

Rarely have I seen someone miss the essence of a product by so much.
The best comparison to the iPhone is not a laptop, but rather the
original Palm Pilot. The iPhone is basically what the Palm Pilot would
have been had it been introduced today and included a phone.

The genius of the Palm Pilot, and what was overlooked by the other PDA
makers then, was how the PDA would fit in with the computer. Others saw
the PDA the same way you see the iPhone--as an autonomous computing
device, to be used as the equal of the computer, and even as a
substitute for the computer. What Palm realized was that the proper
role was as a peripheral to the computer. It's job is to let you bring
a subset of your computing experience with you, but the computer back at
your desk remains the central point of your computing experience.

You will be using the PDA while you are busy with other things, Palm
realized. So, it had to be fast and simple. When you tell someone
"I'll get that phone number for you" and whip out your PDA, you don't
want to wait 30 seconds to boot and load a program, and then have to
navigate an interface with a zillion features to get to the entry you
want. You want to be able to get in and get your answer in a few
seconds--so fast that you don't even think about it, and the person
waiting for you doesn't even notice they had to wait.

Read the above two paragraphs with the iPhone in mind, and you'll see it
is following well in the Palm Pilot's footsteps. For example, take the
Calendar application on the iPhone. Quick--I want to know when my next
doctor's appointment is. How do I find that on my iPhone Calendar?

As far as I have found (both trying it on my iPhone, and reading the
manual), all I can do is scroll through the list of events, looking for
it. There is no search. My Treo 650 had search. Even the phones I had
that weren't smart phones had search! The iPhone--the phone you compare
to a laptop--doesn't even have search? WTF!

Did they simply forget? I doubt it. I think they realized that the
iPhone's role is as a day-to-day extension of your home computer (just
like the Palm Pilot was), and so rather than clutter up the interface
working a search into it--just leave that as something for you to do at
home. This is not something you generally need to do on the phone. On
the phone, you generally just need to look at nearby dates, or specific
dates farther in the future, rather than searching for a specific event
that is more than a couple of weeks or so out.

Similar things can be seen in the Maps application. It's missing a lot
of annotation and push-pin options that other mapping applications have.
But usually you really only need those when doing some serious
planning--which you'll do at the computer. For the kind of questions
you'd need to answer using your phone, it works pretty well.

Same for Safari on the iPhone. (This is the one where I think they
may have erred too far on the side of simplicity...but I can't think of
a good way from an interface point of view to put in the things I miss,
so I can understand their choices).

iPhone's greatness is in that it is NOT trying to be a laptop.

At 30 Nov 2007 01:53:36 +0000 Tim Smith wrote:

> What Palm realized was that the proper
> role was as a peripheral to the computer. It's job is to let you bring
> a subset of your computing experience with you, but the computer back at
> your desk remains the central point of your computing experience...

> Read the above two paragraphs with the iPhone in mind, and you'll see it
> is following well in the Palm Pilot's footsteps...

> iPhone's greatness is in that it is NOT trying to be a laptop.


That's an excellent and well-reasoned essay on the iPhone's (and original
Palm Pilot's) raison d'être.


It's also exactly why I've always used Windows CE-based devices. Sure,
they're complicated, clumsy, and slow at times (a LOT of times, in fact!)
But my goal in using a portable devices IS to bring the "central point of
the computing experience" with me, at least as much as possible. My PDA
phone's job, IMO, is to be a laptop replacement, so I can leave the
computer at my desk, but take as much of the "experience" with me as
possible.

I realize that's not everyone's goal, which is why there's no one "best"
device, "orders of magnitude" above the rest despite our friend Oxford's
rants to the contrary.

Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> On 2007-11-29, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:
> > the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
> > people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
> > power in such a small, long lasting package.
>
> Rarely have I seen someone miss the essence of a product by so much.
> The best comparison to the iPhone is not a laptop, but rather the
> original Palm Pilot. The iPhone is basically what the Palm Pilot would
> have been had it been introduced today and included a phone.

although the Palm is still using a primitive stylus correct? the iPhone
is way over a decade ahead in this area. The Newton is more like the
Palm and they haven't made much progress since they took over that
project.

> The genius of the Palm Pilot, and what was overlooked by the other PDA
> makers then, was how the PDA would fit in with the computer. Others saw
> the PDA the same way you see the iPhone--as an autonomous computing
> device, to be used as the equal of the computer, and even as a
> substitute for the computer. What Palm realized was that the proper
> role was as a peripheral to the computer. It's job is to let you bring
> a subset of your computing experience with you, but the computer back at
> your desk remains the central point of your computing experience.

Yes, and through iSync the iPhone is head and shoulders above the Palm
in syncing data to your primary desktop / laptop.

> You will be using the PDA while you are busy with other things, Palm
> realized. So, it had to be fast and simple. When you tell someone
> "I'll get that phone number for you" and whip out your PDA, you don't
> want to wait 30 seconds to boot and load a program, and then have to
> navigate an interface with a zillion features to get to the entry you
> want. You want to be able to get in and get your answer in a few
> seconds--so fast that you don't even think about it, and the person
> waiting for you doesn't even notice they had to wait.

Yes, that's the beauty of the iPhone, you just touch the Application and
it instantly comes up and ready to use.

> Read the above two paragraphs with the iPhone in mind, and you'll see it
> is following well in the Palm Pilot's footsteps. For example, take the
> Calendar application on the iPhone. Quick--I want to know when my next
> doctor's appointment is. How do I find that on my iPhone Calendar?

Click on the Calendar, boom, there you are.

> As far as I have found (both trying it on my iPhone, and reading the
> manual), all I can do is scroll through the list of events, looking for
> it. There is no search. My Treo 650 had search. Even the phones I had
> that weren't smart phones had search! The iPhone--the phone you compare
> to a laptop--doesn't even have search? WTF!

Just click on the "Day", then you find it fast, no searching needed.

> Did they simply forget? I doubt it. I think they realized that the
> iPhone's role is as a day-to-day extension of your home computer (just
> like the Palm Pilot was), and so rather than clutter up the interface
> working a search into it--just leave that as something for you to do at
> home. This is not something you generally need to do on the phone. On
> the phone, you generally just need to look at nearby dates, or specific
> dates farther in the future, rather than searching for a specific event
> that is more than a couple of weeks or so out.
>
> Similar things can be seen in the Maps application. It's missing a lot
> of annotation and push-pin options that other mapping applications have.
> But usually you really only need those when doing some serious
> planning--which you'll do at the computer. For the kind of questions
> you'd need to answer using your phone, it works pretty well.
>
> Same for Safari on the iPhone. (This is the one where I think they
> may have erred too far on the side of simplicity...but I can't think of
> a good way from an interface point of view to put in the things I miss,
> so I can understand their choices).
>
> iPhone's greatness is in that it is NOT trying to be a laptop.

Partly true... but the iPhone doubles as a Laptop when needed, it has
all the tools as the regular Mac OS, and then some.

-

The idiot Oxford (via sock puppet) spouts the same fanboy crap...

"High powered laptop" is more of his his classic stupidity




"LoSebal" <lsebal@well.com> wrote in message
news:lsebal-384994.22292728112007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net...
>
> well, it is the top cell phone in the world by several orders of
> magnitude, so these prices seem quite reasonable for such power.
>
>
> the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
> people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
> power in such a small, long lasting package.
>
> Orange in France has already sold 50,000 sight unseen, so Apple is
> starting to enter into the "intelligent" portion of the cell market.
>
> Apple up $5.41 on the news.

Oxford sock puppet alert...


"LoSebal" <lsebal@well.com> wrote in message
news:lsebal-8310F1.22490728112007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net...
> pltrgyst <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org> wrote:
>
>> >the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
>> >people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
>> >power in such a small, long lasting package.
>>
>> Still running an 8088, are you?
>
> nope, the iPhone runs a 620Mhz ARM processor, which run circles around
> most smartphones and all cell phone currently on the market.
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/i...nd-620mhz-arm/
>

Oxford sock puppet alert

And, more complete stupidity to boot...


"LoSebal" <lsebal@well.com> wrote in message
news:lsebal-9F66BF.12444929112007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net...
> nespammezpas@antispam.net (Bill) wrote:
>
>> I love it when some dummy uses the expression "several orders of
>> magnitude" without knowing what it means.
>>
>> How much better is the iPhone then? 10,000 times? 100,000 times?
>> One million times? How in the world are you quantifying that,
>> Einstein? What are you measuring?
>
> usability and function, dumb ass, the iPhone rules the cell world now,
> so learn to accept it.

Oxford sock puppet alert


"LoSebal" <lsebal@well.com> wrote in message
news:lsebal-F0BCE3.19404329112007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net...
> Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-29, LoSebal <lsebal@well.com> wrote:
>> > the iphone is really a high powered laptop, so that's what a lot of
>> > people are forgetting, never before has there been so much computing
>> > power in such a small, long lasting package.
>>
>> Rarely have I seen someone miss the essence of a product by so much.
>> The best comparison to the iPhone is not a laptop, but rather the
>> original Palm Pilot. The iPhone is basically what the Palm Pilot would
>> have been had it been introduced today and included a phone.
>
> although the Palm is still using a primitive stylus correct? the iPhone
> is way over a decade ahead in this area. The Newton is more like the
> Palm and they haven't made much progress since they took over that
> project.
>
>> The genius of the Palm Pilot, and what was overlooked by the other PDA
>> makers then, was how the PDA would fit in with the computer. Others saw
>> the PDA the same way you see the iPhone--as an autonomous computing
>> device, to be used as the equal of the computer, and even as a
>> substitute for the computer. What Palm realized was that the proper
>> role was as a peripheral to the computer. It's job is to let you bring
>> a subset of your computing experience with you, but the computer back at
>> your desk remains the central point of your computing experience.
>
> Yes, and through iSync the iPhone is head and shoulders above the Palm
> in syncing data to your primary desktop / laptop.
>
>> You will be using the PDA while you are busy with other things, Palm
>> realized. So, it had to be fast and simple. When you tell someone
>> "I'll get that phone number for you" and whip out your PDA, you don't
>> want to wait 30 seconds to boot and load a program, and then have to
>> navigate an interface with a zillion features to get to the entry you
>> want. You want to be able to get in and get your answer in a few
>> seconds--so fast that you don't even think about it, and the person
>> waiting for you doesn't even notice they had to wait.
>
> Yes, that's the beauty of the iPhone, you just touch the Application and
> it instantly comes up and ready to use.
>
>> Read the above two paragraphs with the iPhone in mind, and you'll see it
>> is following well in the Palm Pilot's footsteps. For example, take the
>> Calendar application on the iPhone. Quick--I want to know when my next
>> doctor's appointment is. How do I find that on my iPhone Calendar?
>
> Click on the Calendar, boom, there you are.
>
>> As far as I have found (both trying it on my iPhone, and reading the
>> manual), all I can do is scroll through the list of events, looking for
>> it. There is no search. My Treo 650 had search. Even the phones I had
>> that weren't smart phones had search! The iPhone--the phone you compare
>> to a laptop--doesn't even have search? WTF!
>
> Just click on the "Day", then you find it fast, no searching needed.
>
>> Did they simply forget? I doubt it. I think they realized that the
>> iPhone's role is as a day-to-day extension of your home computer (just
>> like the Palm Pilot was), and so rather than clutter up the interface
>> working a search into it--just leave that as something for you to do at
>> home. This is not something you generally need to do on the phone. On
>> the phone, you generally just need to look at nearby dates, or specific
>> dates farther in the future, rather than searching for a specific event
>> that is more than a couple of weeks or so out.
>>
>> Similar things can be seen in the Maps application. It's missing a lot
>> of annotation and push-pin options that other mapping applications have.
>> But usually you really only need those when doing some serious
>> planning--which you'll do at the computer. For the kind of questions
>> you'd need to answer using your phone, it works pretty well.
>>
>> Same for Safari on the iPhone. (This is the one where I think they
>> may have erred too far on the side of simplicity...but I can't think of
>> a good way from an interface point of view to put in the things I miss,
>> so I can understand their choices).
>>
>> iPhone's greatness is in that it is NOT trying to be a laptop.
>
> Partly true... but the iPhone doubles as a Laptop when needed, it has
> all the tools as the regular Mac OS, and then some.
>
> -

At 29 Nov 2007 19:40:43 -0700 LoSebal wrote:

> although the Palm is still using a primitive stylus correct? the iPhone
> is way over a decade ahead in this area.

Unless you're wearing gloves...

> The Newton is more like the
> Palm and they haven't made much progress since they took over that
> project.


You completely missed the point (as usual.) He was saying that the iPhone
followed the same design principles as the Palm- omission of all but the
most necessary features to make it more usable for it's intended purpose- a
"companion" to a computer- not a replacement for one.

> Just click on the "Day", then you find it fast, no searching needed.


Unless you don't what "day" the event is scheduled.


> Partly true... but the iPhone doubles as a Laptop when needed, it has
> all the tools as the regular Mac OS, and then some.


You mean Macs can't cut and paste, edit documents or save attachments? I
guess my choice of Windows as a platform was the correct one after all...

It can't be a "laptop" if it depends on a "mothership" to get files on or
off of it.

That doesn't mean it isn't a useful, clever little device, but it's a
peripheral, not a computer.