Re: Tri-band phones?

There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
have is TWO BANDS.

Due to mergers and acquisitions, most carriers are using both bands
nationwide. For example, Verizon is cellular in most of the old Bell
Atlantic areas while it is PCS in Cincy Ohio. Cingular is Cellular in
Atlanta but PCS in the Carolina's.

Note there is one additional band and it is for Sat Phones (InMarSat).

As far as modes go, there are several modes. Most are carrier and
roaming partner specific.

AMPS - Advanced Mobile Phone Service = a signaling system developed in
the USA in the 1960s for use by the old Bell System for mobile
telephony in the 150-160 MHtz and 460 MHtz bands. In today's cellular
world, it is also called ANALOG
TDMA- a precursor to GSM
CDMA - a digital encoding system used by Sprint and Verizon and its
bed (raoming) partners
IDEN - a digital encoding system used by Nextel.
GSM - a digital encoding system used by almost everyone else like
Cingular and T-Mobile

ANALYSIS

In the States, a phone sold in a carrier's store cannot work on more
than the two frequency bands (800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and
1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal Communications Service - 1990s
vintage)).

A phone typically only works in one MODE. The mode is what ever the
carrier and its roaming partners are engineered for like CDMA, GSM,
Analog, etc. A few phones are designed to do a digital encoding as
well as fall back to analog.

They would technically be called DUAL MODE because they communicate
with the wireless network via a digital mode or analog mode. This can
be a big Safety PLUS for people who travel in rurual areas where MOM &
POP local wireless companies have not jumped to digital encoding.

These are the areas where you had service a few years ago but your
carrier said you needed to get a new phone because of IMPROVEMENTS and
you lost coverage areas. Cingulars change from TDMA to pure GSM is an
example of decreasing coverage area with roaming partners while
IMPROVING there own network.

Therefor, if a sales person calls a phone a tri-mode phone, the sales
person has been trained by a person who does not know the basics of
wireless telephony.

BOTTOM LINE
There are two bands and
Most phones are one mode. A few will do two modes.

PRINT THIS AND TAKE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU SHOP. The sales rep will
probably say: Basically this is correct but to make it easier for the
customer, we mix bands and modes.

<none@none.net> wrote in message
news:6rf0f257e45djpndbk3p6k25bjqa25k6g0@4ax.com...
> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
> Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
> have is TWO BANDS.

I understand what the poster here is trying to say but there is a serious
error with this statement. I own at least two phones that are quad-band and
several that are tri-band. The quad-band phones are either 850/900/1800/1900
GSM or 900/1800/1900 GSM plus UMTS-2100. The tri-band phones are all
900/1800/1900 GSM. The poster (none) is correct that there are currently
only really two cellular bands used IN THE USA. However other bands are used
globally and in the case of the phones listed above the 900/1800 and 2100
bands are not used in the USA. Now, things are going to get more complicated
in the US and mobile phones used here may be dual, tri or even quad band
before very much longer, although the new bands will be even different from
those listed above. As for the single, dual or tri-mode issue, "mode" is a
marketing buzz-word. I wouldn't bother getting into an argument over it.

--
Donald R. Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net

Donald Newcomb wrote:
> As for the single, dual or tri-mode issue, "mode" is a
> marketing buzz-word. I wouldn't bother getting into an argument over it.

I wouldn't either, exactly, except to suggest that most comm engineers
would make the distinction that "band" refers to frequency, while "mode"
refers to modulation method, and has since long before the marketers
ever got ahold of it.

--
St. John
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
have is TWO BANDS.

Due to mergers and acquisitions, most carriers are using both bands
nationwide. For example, Verizon is cellular in most of the old Bell
Atlantic areas while it is PCS in Cincy Ohio. Cingular is Cellular in
Atlanta but PCS in the Carolina's.

Note there is one additional band and it is for Sat Phones (InMarSat).

As far as modes go, there are several modes. Most are carrier and
roaming partner specific.

AMPS - Advanced Mobile Phone Service = a signaling system developed in
the USA in the 1960s for use by the old Bell System for mobile
telephony in the 150-160 MHtz and 460 MHtz bands. In today's cellular
world, it is also called ANALOG
TDMA- a precursor to GSM
CDMA - a digital encoding system used by Sprint and Verizon and its
bed (raoming) partners
IDEN - a digital encoding system used by Nextel.
GSM - a digital encoding system used by almost everyone else like
Cingular and T-Mobile

ANALYSIS

In the States, a phone sold in a carrier's store cannot work on more
than the two frequency bands (800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and
1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal Communications Service - 1990s
vintage)).

A phone typically only works in one MODE. The mode is what ever the
carrier and its roaming partners are engineered for like CDMA, GSM,
Analog, etc. A few phones are designed to do a digital encoding as
well as fall back to analog.

They would technically be called DUAL MODE because they communicate
with the wireless network via a digital mode or analog mode. This can
be a big Safety PLUS for people who travel in rurual areas where MOM &
POP local wireless companies have not jumped to digital encoding.

These are the areas where you had service a few years ago but your
carrier said you needed to get a new phone because of IMPROVEMENTS and
you lost coverage areas. Cingulars change from TDMA to pure GSM is an
example of decreasing coverage area with roaming partners while
IMPROVING there own network.

Therefor, if a sales person calls a phone a tri-mode phone, the sales
person has been trained by a person who does not know the basics of
wireless telephony.

BOTTOM LINE
There are two bands and
Most phones are one mode. A few will do two modes.

PRINT THIS AND TAKE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU SHOP. The sales rep will
probably say: Basically this is correct but to make it easier for the
customer, we mix bands and modes.

You're making this overly complicated. You don't need to know "the
wireless industry." You just need to know your carrier. For example,
with Verizon Wireless their "tri-mode" phones operate on AMPS 850, CDMA
850, and CDMA 1900, or, for all that most people care, digital and analog
systems. This is not rocket science, and a thesis is not necessary for
the average customer.

none@none.net wrote in news:5gqaf2510me35nl3dga45tgs8b9g784fts@4ax.com:

> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
> Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
> have is TWO BANDS.
>
> Due to mergers and acquisitions, most carriers are using both bands
> nationwide. For example, Verizon is cellular in most of the old Bell
> Atlantic areas while it is PCS in Cincy Ohio. Cingular is Cellular in
> Atlanta but PCS in the Carolina's.
>
> Note there is one additional band and it is for Sat Phones (InMarSat).
>
> As far as modes go, there are several modes. Most are carrier and
> roaming partner specific.
>
> AMPS - Advanced Mobile Phone Service = a signaling system developed in
> the USA in the 1960s for use by the old Bell System for mobile
> telephony in the 150-160 MHtz and 460 MHtz bands. In today's cellular
> world, it is also called ANALOG
> TDMA- a precursor to GSM
> CDMA - a digital encoding system used by Sprint and Verizon and its
> bed (raoming) partners
> IDEN - a digital encoding system used by Nextel.
> GSM - a digital encoding system used by almost everyone else like
> Cingular and T-Mobile
>
> ANALYSIS
>
> In the States, a phone sold in a carrier's store cannot work on more
> than the two frequency bands (800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and
> 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal Communications Service - 1990s
> vintage)).
>
> A phone typically only works in one MODE. The mode is what ever the
> carrier and its roaming partners are engineered for like CDMA, GSM,
> Analog, etc. A few phones are designed to do a digital encoding as
> well as fall back to analog.
>
> They would technically be called DUAL MODE because they communicate
> with the wireless network via a digital mode or analog mode. This can
> be a big Safety PLUS for people who travel in rurual areas where MOM &
> POP local wireless companies have not jumped to digital encoding.
>
> These are the areas where you had service a few years ago but your
> carrier said you needed to get a new phone because of IMPROVEMENTS and
> you lost coverage areas. Cingulars change from TDMA to pure GSM is an
> example of decreasing coverage area with roaming partners while
> IMPROVING there own network.
>
> Therefor, if a sales person calls a phone a tri-mode phone, the sales
> person has been trained by a person who does not know the basics of
> wireless telephony.
>
> BOTTOM LINE
> There are two bands and
> Most phones are one mode. A few will do two modes.
>
> PRINT THIS AND TAKE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU SHOP. The sales rep will
> probably say: Basically this is correct but to make it easier for the
> customer, we mix bands and modes.
>

Mitchell Regenbogen wrote:
> You're making this overly complicated. You don't need to know "the
> wireless industry." You just need to know your carrier. For example,
> with Verizon Wireless their "tri-mode" phones operate on AMPS 850, CDMA
> 850, and CDMA 1900, or, for all that most people care, digital and analog
> systems. This is not rocket science, and a thesis is not necessary for
> the average customer.
>
> none@none.net wrote in news:5gqaf2510me35nl3dga45tgs8b9g784fts@4ax.com:


Well I for one appreciated the complete and very clear description. Why
anyone would jump someone's case for giving an outstanding tutorial on a
complicated subject is a mystery to me!

John

none@none.net wrote:
> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
> Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
> have is TWO BANDS.
>

Thanks! .. that was very informative.

Esmail

"Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8biJg.9003$4O4.2513@trnddc02...
> none@none.net wrote:
>> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
>> Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
>> have is TWO BANDS.
>>
>
> Thanks! .. that was very informative.

Yep, totally wrong, but very informative.

--
<<< Unlock Your Phone's Potential >>>
<<< www.uselessinfo.org.uk >>>
<<< www.thephonelocker.co.uk >>>
<<< www.gsm-solutions.co.uk >>>

Richard Colton wrote:
> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8biJg.9003$4O4.2513@trnddc02...
>
>>none@none.net wrote:
>>
>>>There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>>>800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
>>>Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
>>>have is TWO BANDS.
>>>
>>
>>Thanks! .. that was very informative.
>
>
> Yep, totally wrong, but very informative.

Really? How so .. (seriously)

"Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JOiJg.5360$p23.284@trnddc04...
> Richard Colton wrote:
>> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:8biJg.9003$4O4.2513@trnddc02...
>>
>>>none@none.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>>>>800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
>>>>Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
>>>>have is TWO BANDS.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks! .. that was very informative.
>>
>>
>> Yep, totally wrong, but very informative.
>
> Really? How so .. (seriously)

Although basically correct in that the 800-900MHz and 1800-1900Mhz ranges
are primarily used, it should be remembered that most phones are only
configured to utilise specific areas of those ranges. Therefore in Europe
most networks utilise either 900 or 1800Mhz - American networks seem to
prefer 850 and 1900Mhz. If you need your phone to operate cross continent,
you'll need a tri-band or quad band handset.

And that's without considering CDMA and the 2100Mhz frequency that the 3G
networks are using in Europe.

--
<<< Unlock Your Phone's Potential >>>
<<< www.uselessinfo.org.uk >>>
<<< www.thephonelocker.co.uk >>>
<<< www.gsm-solutions.co.uk >>>

On 2006-08-30, Richard Colton <webmaster@NOJUNKuselessinfo.org.uk> wrote:
> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JOiJg.5360$p23.284@trnddc04...
>> Richard Colton wrote:
>>> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:8biJg.9003$4O4.2513@trnddc02...
>>>
>>>>none@none.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>>>>>800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
>>>>>Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
>>>>>have is TWO BANDS.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks! .. that was very informative.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, totally wrong, but very informative.
>>
>> Really? How so .. (seriously)
>
> Although basically correct in that the 800-900MHz and 1800-1900Mhz ranges
> are primarily used, it should be remembered that most phones are only
> configured to utilise specific areas of those ranges. Therefore in Europe
> most networks utilise either 900 or 1800Mhz - American networks seem to
> prefer 850 and 1900Mhz. If you need your phone to operate cross continent,
> you'll need a tri-band or quad band handset.

This is true if you are talking about GSM handsets, but the original
poster was wondering about a Verizon CDMA handset. The "CDMA" in this
case is CDMA2000 1xSomething, or IS-95 CDMA, which is not the same
CDMA as is used in European 3G networks.

For CDMA, a la Verizon, there are really only two bands, 800/850 MHz and
1900 MHz. This is true not only in North America but also in
South America, the Caribbean and in Asia (I've gotten service on
an 850/1900 CDMA phone in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, S. Korea, Thailand
and India), even in countries where the 900/1800 MHz bands are used for GSM.
I don't think CDMA2000/IS-95 CDMA is used at 900 MHz or 1800 MHz anywhere
on the planet (all 2G CDMA usage in Europe is at 450 MHz, but I don't
think these networks support roaming) so, in the context of 2.xG CDMA
handsets, there really are only two bands and dual-band/tri-mode handsets
are the most flexible that exist, even for intercontinental roaming. See

http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/index.asp

for more information.

I agree the post you are complaining about (quoted above) was a bit muddled
but it wasn't incorrect about the two band thing in the context of 2G
CDMA handsets.

> And that's without considering CDMA and the 2100Mhz frequency that the 3G
> networks are using in Europe.

Yes, but 3G CDMA is a whole other thing.

Dennis Ferguson

"Pegleg" <brian.pegleg.jones@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ilbf2hrk32fe7ptgojdhfb0p8epbcq2cm@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:38:29 GMT, "Richard Colton"
> <webmaster@NOJUNKuselessinfo.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Although basically correct in that the 800-900MHz and 1800-1900Mhz ranges
>>are primarily used, it should be remembered that most phones are only
>>configured to utilise specific areas of those ranges. Therefore in Europe
>>most networks utilise either 900 or 1800Mhz - American networks seem to
>>prefer 850 and 1900Mhz. If you need your phone to operate cross
>>continent,
>>you'll need a tri-band or quad band handset.
>>
>>And that's without considering CDMA and the 2100Mhz frequency that the 3G
>>networks are using in Europe.
>
> He did specify carriers in the States!

So? His statement:

> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
> Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
> have is TWO BANDS.

is just plain wrong. 800-900Mhz and 1800-1900Mhz cover a wide frequency
spectrum. As you believe that "none" is correct and that the most bands any
phone can have is two, show me one of these mythical dual-band handsets that
encompass the entire frequency ranges. I'm quite prepared to show you quad
band phones that can handle 850, 900, 1800 & 1900Mhz, and even a few that
are quite happy with 2100Mhz as well. We could go on to discuss the systems
that use 2000Mhz as well if you like.

--
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<<< www.uselessinfo.org.uk >>>
<<< www.thephonelocker.co.uk >>>
<<< www.gsm-solutions.co.uk >>>

"Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:slrnefbqpv.a1.dcferguson@dennispc.local...
> On 2006-08-30, Richard Colton <webmaster@NOJUNKuselessinfo.org.uk> wrote:
>> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:JOiJg.5360$p23.284@trnddc04...
>>> Richard Colton wrote:
>>>> "Esmail Bonakdarian" <ebonakDUH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:8biJg.9003$4O4.2513@trnddc02...
>>>>
>>>>>none@none.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>>>>>>800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS - Personal
>>>>>>Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any phone can
>>>>>>have is TWO BANDS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks! .. that was very informative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep, totally wrong, but very informative.
>>>
>>> Really? How so .. (seriously)
>>
>> Although basically correct in that the 800-900MHz and 1800-1900Mhz ranges
>> are primarily used, it should be remembered that most phones are only
>> configured to utilise specific areas of those ranges. Therefore in
>> Europe
>> most networks utilise either 900 or 1800Mhz - American networks seem to
>> prefer 850 and 1900Mhz. If you need your phone to operate cross
>> continent,
>> you'll need a tri-band or quad band handset.
>
> This is true if you are talking about GSM handsets, but the original
> poster was wondering about a Verizon CDMA handset.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. The original post must have disappeared
somewhere in the cross-post. On acn, this thread starts with a post by
Donald Newcomb where the original post isn't even quoted.

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Finding the keyboard operational
Richard Colton entered:

> "Pegleg" <brian.pegleg.jones@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ilbf2hrk32fe7ptgojdhfb0p8epbcq2cm@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:38:29 GMT, "Richard Colton"
>> <webmaster@NOJUNKuselessinfo.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Although basically correct in that the 800-900MHz and 1800-1900Mhz
>>> ranges are primarily used, it should be remembered that most phones
>>> are only configured to utilise specific areas of those ranges. Therefore
>>> in Europe most networks utilise either 900 or 1800Mhz -
>>> American networks seem to prefer 850 and 1900Mhz. If you need your
>>> phone to operate cross continent,
>>> you'll need a tri-band or quad band handset.
>>>
>>> And that's without considering CDMA and the 2100Mhz frequency that
>>> the 3G networks are using in Europe.
>>
>> He did specify carriers in the States!
>
> So? His statement:
>
>> There are only two bands of frequencies for wireless telephony:
>> 800-900 MHtz (Old Cellular - 1980s) and 1800-1900 MHtz (PCS -
>> Personal Communications Service - 1990s vintage) . So the most any
>> phone can have is TWO BANDS.
>
> is just plain wrong. 800-900Mhz and 1800-1900Mhz cover a wide
> frequency spectrum. As you believe that "none" is correct and that
> the most bands any phone can have is two, show me one of these
> mythical dual-band handsets that encompass the entire frequency
> ranges. I'm quite prepared to show you quad band phones that can
> handle 850, 900, 1800 & 1900Mhz, and even a few that are quite happy
> with 2100Mhz as well. We could go on to discuss the systems that use
> 2000Mhz as well if you like.

For US carriers, the term Tri-band is a marketing invention for a phone that
operates on Cellular, PCS and Analog. Engineering gave up trying to correct
the mistake long ago.
Other countries have much more accurate descriptions.
Bob.
--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

At 30 Aug 2006 23:50:23 +0000 The Other Funk wrote:

> For US carriers, the term Tri-band is a marketing invention for a phone
that operates on Cellular, PCS and Analog. Engineering gave up trying to
correct the mistake long ago.

Not really. Tri-MODE was the (slightly) incorrect marketing "invention",
meaning an 800 Analog/800 Digital/1900 Digital US phone in the early days
of CDMA and TDMA (the preferred term was actually "dual-band/dual-mode"
but "tri-mode" was shorter and catchier-sounding.) It was often
incorrectly called tri-band by salespeople because the GSM folks were
starting to offer actual tri-band (900/1800/1900) world phones around the
same time.



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