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  1. #1
    admin35
    Guest
    I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
    Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
    "unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
    Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).

    Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
    know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
    is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
    of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
    Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
    containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
    specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
    reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
    Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
    and get the informaiton that I need.

    Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
    information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
    they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
    cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
    was connected to their cellular network?



    See More: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"



  2. #2
    dr
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    Sorry; except for a court order; I do not believe there is a way to get a
    caller id that is unavailable, blocked or spoofed. And those that can
    "spoof" are usually businesses with their own switchboards, usually not a
    residential or cell phone use. Sorry I can't help. dr

    PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
    understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
    is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.

    --
    dr.news //stores.ebay.com/better-price-wireless (not better than you
    deserve, just more than you're used to) //free.better-price.biz (for new
    lines of wireless service; all carriers; the phones are almost always a
    better-price)

    "admin35" <admin35@verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:j4a7k2pe7qanvhr1at7cqpievpugbmerj2@4ax.com...
    >I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
    > Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
    > "unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
    > Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
    >
    > Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
    > know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
    > is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
    > of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
    > Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
    > containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
    > specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
    > reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
    > Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
    > and get the informaiton that I need.
    >
    > Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
    > information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
    > they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
    > cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
    > was connected to their cellular network?






  3. #3
    Geoff
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    Caller ID is a strange thing. When I went through HellSouth, I had a
    hardware block on my line but when I called my main office in Wisconson, the
    number showed up.

    I asked a HellSouth person how they can get the number but he did not know.

    -g





  4. #4
    Geoff
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    No, called directly to other employees, no 800 number.

    I think the data network sends all this information anyway but somehow they
    are able to override the 'do not show the number' command and display it
    anyway.

    -g





  5. #5
    admin35
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:43:35 -0500, "dr"
    <dr@better-price.biz.<delete-obvious>> wrote:

    >Sorry; except for a court order; I do not believe there is a way to get a
    >caller id that is unavailable, blocked or spoofed. And those that can
    >"spoof" are usually businesses with their own switchboards, usually not a
    >residential or cell phone use. Sorry I can't help. dr
    >
    >PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
    >understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
    >is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.


    Thanks for the response. To clarify further, I would add the
    following:

    First off, I don't want the CID (caller ID) information because I
    already have the caller ID information.

    Second, I want the ANI (automatic number identification) information.
    The ANI informaiton is billing information and is more difficult to
    alter. I have a toll-free number, and I know that when someone calls
    my toll-free number I can get the ANI informaiton for that call (even
    if the CID information is blocked or marked private or whatever). But
    in this case they called me on my Verison Wireless phone, I can't have
    them call my toll free number, and I want the ANI information for the
    call that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone.

    Third, I want to know what carrer (outside of the Verizon Wireless
    network) connected the call to Verizon's Network on it's way to my
    cell phone. This is information that is SEPARATE from the CID or ANI
    information, and it is not information that is derived from the CID or
    ANI information. I know how to get this information for calls to my
    Verizon (land line phone), but I don't know how to get this
    information from calls to my Verizon Wireless phone.

    Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
    have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
    The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
    this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.

    Anyone have any ideas?



  6. #6
    The Ghost of General Lee
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:26:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

    >Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
    >have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
    >The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
    >this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.


    Then it sounds like you haven't sent a real subpoena off to VZW. That
    would hit their legal department and the info would be forthcoming.
    You wouldn't need to ask who to get the info from. The subpoena would
    do all the talking necessary. Did a judge sign your subpoena? If
    not, who did and under what authority did they sign it?




  7. #7
    none@none.net
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
    may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
    communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
    data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
    billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
    lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
    the destination end.

    The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
    card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
    about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.

    QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
    subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
    several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
    issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.


    none






    On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

    >I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
    >Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
    >"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
    >Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
    >
    >Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
    >know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
    >is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
    >of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
    >Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
    >containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
    >specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
    >reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
    >Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
    >and get the informaiton that I need.
    >
    >Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
    >information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
    >they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
    >cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
    >was connected to their cellular network?




  8. #8
    admin35
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:39:09 -0500, The Ghost of General Lee
    <ghost@general.lee> wrote:

    >On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:26:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
    >>have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
    >>The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
    >>this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.

    >
    >Then it sounds like you haven't sent a real subpoena off to VZW. That
    >would hit their legal department and the info would be forthcoming.
    >You wouldn't need to ask who to get the info from. The subpoena would
    >do all the talking necessary. Did a judge sign your subpoena? If
    >not, who did and under what authority did they sign it?


    Thanks for the response. I have been doing this (sending subpoeanas
    to telephone companies) for several years now. I am in PA. I don't
    need a judge to sign my subpoena, it is signed, stamped, sealed, and
    issued by the Prothonotary for the Court of Common Pleas in PA. The
    issue is not with the subpoena. Verizon Wireless is not contesting
    the validity of my subpoena. They are in fact responding to my
    subpoena - but they are saying that they don't have the informaiton
    that I have requested in the subpoena. I have spoken with a senior
    counsel for subpoena compliance associated with Verizon Wireless, and
    they are more than happy to provide me with any information that they
    have. The problem is that they claim not to have the information that
    I am asking for - so I need to be more specific in my request.

    For example, I would like to know the ANI information associated with
    the call to my cell phone. If the call was received on my land line
    phone, then the ANI information would be available by subpoena. But
    since cell phone comnpanies bill the end users for all incomming
    calls, I don't know if they keep track of the ANI information on any
    incomming calls. If they don't have the ANI information, then all the
    subpoenas and court orders in the world won't get the information from
    them. On the other hand, maybe Verizon Wireless calls the ANI
    information something else. For example, if Verizon Wireless calls
    ANI information "the out of band tracking number" (I just made that
    up), then they can respond to my subpoena and tell me that they don't
    have any ANI information - because they don't. And they don't have to
    give me the "out of band tracking number" - because I didn't ask for
    that.



  9. #9
    admin35
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    Thanks for your response.

    In my case, sometimes the CID information is simply "unavailable", and
    other times I believe the CID information is being put through by a
    PBX (Private Branch Exchange). There's nothing wrong (per se) with a
    company putting through a CID of their choice. It's just that the CID
    information (when it is "available") is not of any value to me, and
    thus any information derived from it is of no value to me.

    I want to know the "out of band" information associated with the call
    that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone. Does Verizon Wireless
    keep a record of any "out of band" information when it receives a call
    from outside of it's network? If so, then what out of band
    information is recorded, where is it recorded, how long is it
    retained, and how would I ask for it?

    WRT to the subpoena itself, I am in PA. In order to send a subpoena
    to a phone company, I have to file a civil complaint in the court of
    common pleas, pay $2 to the prothonotary for a blank subpoena form
    that is numbered, stamped with a sealed, and signed by the
    prothonotary (it's a stamped signature). THen I fill out the subpoena
    form indicating the plaintiff, defendant, case number, who the
    subpoena is directed to, what information/documents are being
    requested, and who is sending the subpoena. If a company that does
    business in PA refuses to respond to a PA subpoena, then I file a
    motion to compel with the court and the judge signs an order
    compelling a response within x days or sanctions may be applied. If a
    company does not do business in PA, then they can respond to a PA
    subpoena or not, it's their choice. If they choose not to respond,
    then I have to domesticate my subpoena in a state that they do
    business in and have that state issue a subpoena directing them to
    respond.

    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:59:15 -0500, none@none.net wrote:

    >This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
    >may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
    >communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
    >data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
    >billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
    >lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
    >the destination end.
    >
    >The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
    >card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
    >about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.
    >
    >QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
    >subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
    >several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
    >issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.
    >


    >On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
    >>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
    >>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
    >>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
    >>
    >>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
    >>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
    >>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
    >>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
    >>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
    >>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
    >>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
    >>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
    >>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
    >>and get the informaiton that I need.
    >>
    >>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
    >>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
    >>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
    >>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
    >>was connected to their cellular network?




  10. #10
    none@none.net
    Guest

    Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

    thanks for the info. subpeonas are not as inexpensive in the deep
    south. They are $25 plus the sheriff or constables service charge.

    As far as SS7 data retention, when I worked for Ma Bell, the retention
    period for raw data was about 7 days for local (non-toll), 90 days for
    toll traffic. I have often wondered about places with near 100%
    measured local service.

    One idea would be to get a PRI line with an SS7 data channel. This
    should give you 24 channels. The SS7 data would be channel 23 with
    the PRI data on 24. You would then have 22 other channels for data or
    voice.

    Sounds like it is time for another subpeona, "how long to you keep raw
    SS7 data on inbound calls?"


    none



    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:45:37 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

    >Thanks for your response.
    >
    >In my case, sometimes the CID information is simply "unavailable", and
    >other times I believe the CID information is being put through by a
    >PBX (Private Branch Exchange). There's nothing wrong (per se) with a
    >company putting through a CID of their choice. It's just that the CID
    >information (when it is "available") is not of any value to me, and
    >thus any information derived from it is of no value to me.
    >
    >I want to know the "out of band" information associated with the call
    >that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone. Does Verizon Wireless
    >keep a record of any "out of band" information when it receives a call
    >from outside of it's network? If so, then what out of band
    >information is recorded, where is it recorded, how long is it
    >retained, and how would I ask for it?
    >
    >WRT to the subpoena itself, I am in PA. In order to send a subpoena
    >to a phone company, I have to file a civil complaint in the court of
    >common pleas, pay $2 to the prothonotary for a blank subpoena form
    >that is numbered, stamped with a sealed, and signed by the
    >prothonotary (it's a stamped signature). THen I fill out the subpoena
    >form indicating the plaintiff, defendant, case number, who the
    >subpoena is directed to, what information/documents are being
    >requested, and who is sending the subpoena. If a company that does
    >business in PA refuses to respond to a PA subpoena, then I file a
    >motion to compel with the court and the judge signs an order
    >compelling a response within x days or sanctions may be applied. If a
    >company does not do business in PA, then they can respond to a PA
    >subpoena or not, it's their choice. If they choose not to respond,
    >then I have to domesticate my subpoena in a state that they do
    >business in and have that state issue a subpoena directing them to
    >respond.
    >
    >On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:59:15 -0500, none@none.net wrote:
    >
    >>This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
    >>may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
    >>communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
    >>data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
    >>billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
    >>lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
    >>the destination end.
    >>
    >>The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
    >>card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
    >>about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.
    >>
    >>QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
    >>subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
    >>several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
    >>issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.
    >>

    >
    >>On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
    >>>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
    >>>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
    >>>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
    >>>
    >>>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
    >>>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
    >>>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
    >>>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
    >>>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
    >>>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
    >>>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
    >>>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
    >>>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
    >>>and get the informaiton that I need.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
    >>>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
    >>>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
    >>>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
    >>>was connected to their cellular network?




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