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  1. #16
    Michael
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "brian w edginton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:37:23 GMT, "Tom Smyth"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly unnessary,
    > >technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're paying for all that

    crap.
    >
    >
    > Yeah!
    > A hobby-horse of mine.....imagine the coverage if , even, half of the
    > existing towers were spread across the country with access by all
    > customers.
    > Like the copper wire system.


    And we have the **** now of having to work out who gets to use it, who is
    "entitled" to it, even though they never paid a cent to it . . .

    No thanks

    > We were lucky there wasn't the same "competition" mystique when the
    > PMG was doing its thing back when.
    > If this was a perfect world, we, probably, wouldn't
    > be in it.






    See More: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network




  2. #17
    Michael
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "Tom Smyth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Horry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news[email protected]...
    > > On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:47:04 GMT, Tom Smyth wrote:
    > >
    > >> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected]...
    > >>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    > >>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    > >>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    > >>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    > >>>
    > >>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    > >>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    > >>>
    > >>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    > >>>
    > >>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    > >>>
    > >>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    > >>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    > >>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    > >>>
    > >>> Sure.
    > >>
    > >> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage the
    > >> infrastructure? Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they
    > >> would
    > >> also be the shareholders.
    > >>
    > >> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my idea

    involved
    > >> combining the infrastructure of all the networks.

    > >
    > > Annoying me with SMSs about this for *weeks* does not constitute

    "floating
    > > the idea".

    >
    > I thought you were a rather influential figure in aus.comms.mobile. Are

    you
    > not??
    >
    >


    No, he's not





  3. #18
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>
    >>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage the
    >>>>> infrastructure?
    >>>>
    >>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would also
    >>>>> be the shareholders.
    >>>>
    >>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in competition
    >>>> when one of the majors lunches on one of the small number of
    >>>> competitors.
    >>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my idea
    >>>>> involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.
    >>>>
    >>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>
    >>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're paying
    >>> for all that crap.

    >>
    >> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever delivers
    >> anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition isnt
    >> theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient
    >> either, essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.


    > But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    > triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable areas.


    You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys, airlines,
    supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition
    isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient
    either, essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.

    > i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas, and charges
    > the remaining operators through roaming agreements.


    No thanks.

    > These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    > operators providing coverage in another low density area.


    > Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that way.


    And a monopoly. No thanks.





  4. #19
    Jeremy Quirke
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage the
    >>>>>> infrastructure?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would also
    >>>>>> be the shareholders.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in competition
    >>>>> when one of the majors lunches on one of the small number of
    >>>>> competitors.
    >>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my idea
    >>>>>> involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>>
    >>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're paying
    >>>> for all that crap.
    >>>
    >>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever delivers
    >>> anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition isnt
    >>> theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient
    >>> either, essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.

    >
    >> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable areas.

    >
    > You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys, airlines,
    > supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    > delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition
    > isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient
    > either, essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >
    >> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas, and
    >> charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.

    >
    > No thanks.
    >
    >> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >> operators providing coverage in another low density area.

    >
    >> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that way.

    >
    > And a monopoly. No thanks.

    Seems to work quite well elsewhere.





  5. #20
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage
    >>>>>>> the infrastructure?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would also
    >>>>>>> be the shareholders.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the small
    >>>>>> number of competitors.
    >>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my idea
    >>>>>>> involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're
    >>>>> paying for all that crap.
    >>>>
    >>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever delivers
    >>>> anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition
    >>>> isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever
    >>>> efficient either, essentially because there is no incentive to be
    >>>> efficient.

    >>
    >>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable
    >>> areas.

    >>
    >> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys, airlines,
    >> supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly
    >> ever delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly
    >> is ever efficient either, essentially because there is no incentive
    >> to be efficient.
    >>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas, and
    >>> charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.

    >>
    >> No thanks.
    >>
    >>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.

    >>
    >>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that
    >>> way.

    >>
    >> And a monopoly. No thanks.


    > Seems to work quite well elsewhere.


    No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.





  6. #21
    brian w edginton
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:07:19 GMT, "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote:


    >> Yeah!
    >> A hobby-horse of mine.....imagine the coverage if , even, half of the
    >> existing towers were spread across the country with access by all
    >> customers.
    >> Like the copper wire system.

    >
    >And we have the **** now of having to work out who gets to use it, who is
    >"entitled" to it, even though they never paid a cent to it . . .
    >
    >No thanks


    Why would there be a problem with user enttlement?
    Sharing would have to be paid for....a little like roaming agreements
    or reselling.

    If this was a perfect world, we, probably, wouldn't
    be in it.



  7. #22
    Jeremy Quirke
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage
    >>>>>>>> the infrastructure?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would also
    >>>>>>>> be the shareholders.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the small
    >>>>>>> number of competitors.
    >>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my idea
    >>>>>>>> involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're
    >>>>>> paying for all that crap.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever delivers
    >>>>> anything like as well as real competition, even tho competition
    >>>>> isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever
    >>>>> efficient either, essentially because there is no incentive to be
    >>>>> efficient.
    >>>
    >>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable
    >>>> areas.
    >>>
    >>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys, airlines,
    >>> supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly
    >>> ever delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >>> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no monopoly
    >>> is ever efficient either, essentially because there is no incentive
    >>> to be efficient.
    >>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas, and
    >>>> charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.
    >>>
    >>> No thanks.
    >>>
    >>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.
    >>>
    >>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that
    >>>> way.
    >>>
    >>> And a monopoly. No thanks.

    >
    >> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.

    >
    > No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.

    USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.





  8. #23
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple
    >>>>>>>>>> now. And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage
    >>>>>>>>> the infrastructure?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would
    >>>>>>>>> also be the shareholders.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the small
    >>>>>>>> number of competitors.
    >>>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my
    >>>>>>>>> idea involved combining the infrastructure of all the
    >>>>>>>>> networks.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're
    >>>>>>> paying for all that crap.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    >>>>>> delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >>>>>> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no
    >>>>>> monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially because there is
    >>>>>> no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>
    >>>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>>>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable
    >>>>> areas.
    >>>>
    >>>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys,
    >>>> airlines, supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that
    >>>> no monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as efficient.
    >>>> In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially
    >>>> because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas,
    >>>>> and charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.
    >>>>
    >>>> No thanks.
    >>>>
    >>>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that
    >>>>> way.
    >>>>
    >>>> And a monopoly. No thanks.

    >>
    >>> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.

    >>
    >> No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.


    > USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.


    There aint no monopoly with mobile phone telcos in the US.

    Or anything like what was being proposed either.

    AND their mobile phone system is MUCH worse than ours anyway.





  9. #24
    Jeremy Quirke
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple
    >>>>>>>>>>> now. And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage
    >>>>>>>>>> the infrastructure?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would
    >>>>>>>>>> also be the shareholders.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the small
    >>>>>>>>> number of competitors.
    >>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my
    >>>>>>>>>> idea involved combining the infrastructure of all the
    >>>>>>>>>> networks.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're
    >>>>>>>> paying for all that crap.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>>>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    >>>>>>> delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >>>>>>> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no
    >>>>>>> monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially because there is
    >>>>>>> no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>>>>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable
    >>>>>> areas.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys,
    >>>>> airlines, supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that
    >>>>> no monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as efficient.
    >>>>> In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially
    >>>>> because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas,
    >>>>>> and charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No thanks.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that
    >>>>>> way.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And a monopoly. No thanks.
    >>>
    >>>> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.
    >>>
    >>> No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.

    >
    >> USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.

    >
    > There aint no monopoly with mobile phone telcos in the US.
    >
    > Or anything like what was being proposed either.
    >
    > AND their mobile phone system is MUCH worse than ours anyway.


    'Fraid not. Never said there was a monopoly in the US either - far from it.
    And Brazil is another example.





  10. #25
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    > Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now. And
    >>>>>>>>>>>> that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> Sure.


    >>>>>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage the
    >>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure?


    >>>>>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.


    >>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would also be
    >>>>>>>>>>> the shareholders.


    >>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in competition
    >>>>>>>>>> when one of the majors lunches on one of the small number of
    >>>>>>>>>> competitors.


    >>>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my
    >>>>>>>>>>> idea involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.


    >>>>>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.


    >>>>>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>>>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're paying
    >>>>>>>>> for all that crap.


    >>>>>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>>>>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    >>>>>>>> delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >>>>>>>> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no
    >>>>>>>> monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially because there is
    >>>>>>>> no incentive to be efficient.


    >>>>>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>>>>>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable areas.


    >>>>>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys,
    >>>>>> airlines, supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that
    >>>>>> no monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as
    >>>>>> efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either,
    >>>>>> essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas,
    >>>>>>> and charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.


    >>>>>> No thanks.


    >>>>>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>>>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.


    >>>>>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that way.


    >>>>>> And a monopoly. No thanks.


    >>>>> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.


    >>>> No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.


    >>> USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.


    >> There aint no monopoly with mobile phone telcos in the US.


    >> Or anything like what was being proposed either.


    >> AND their mobile phone system is MUCH worse than ours anyway.


    > 'Fraid not.


    Fraid so.

    > Never said there was a monopoly in the US either - far from it.


    Pity it aint anything like 'a separate business created
    to combine and manage the infrastructure' either.

    > And Brazil is another example.


    A ****ed one compared with ours.





  11. #26
    A User
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    On 15 Jan 2006 15:32:45 -0800, "Giles" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking to buy Vodafone's
    >> network infrastructure and make Vodafone a virtual mobile network
    >> operator. Vodafone would buy Optus airtime wholesale and resell it to
    >> its customer base, similar to the way Virgin runs its mobile business
    >> now.
    >>
    >> Optus's thoughts turn to Vodafone - Australian IT 13/1/06 http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html

    >
    >FYI, Crikey's analysis of a few days ago is now online
    >http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/20...1622-8969.html


    I have two comments.

    Why doesn't Voda buy them out? They are a bigger company globally.

    I personally think the Voda 2.5 network is the best engineered in
    Aus, better than Optus and Telstra, it would result in a drop in
    reliability.



  12. #27
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    A User <[email protected]> wrote
    > Giles <[email protected]> wrote


    >>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking to buy Vodafone's
    >>> network infrastructure and make Vodafone a virtual mobile network
    >>> operator. Vodafone would buy Optus airtime wholesale and resell it
    >>> to its customer base, similar to the way Virgin runs its mobile business
    >>> now.


    >>> Optus's thoughts turn to Vodafone - Australian IT 13/1/06
    >>> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html


    >> FYI, Crikey's analysis of a few days ago is now online
    >> http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/20...1622-8969.html


    > I have two comments.


    How dare you ?

    > Why doesn't Voda buy them out?


    Its unlikely that Singtel would be interested in selling,
    the mobile operation is the only area thats profitable.

    > They are a bigger company globally.


    Sure.

    > I personally think the Voda 2.5 network is the best engineered in Aus,
    > better than Optus and Telstra, it would result in a drop in reliability.


    There bases are noticeably worse performance wise
    outside the capital citys except with the highway tender.





  13. #28
    Jeremy Quirke
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network


    "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the biggest
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consolidation of the mobile market in Australia, ever.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that simple now.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> And that was Fels too, not the current top ACCC monkey.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage
    >>>>>>>>>>>> the infrastructure?

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they would
    >>>>>>>>>>>> also be the shareholders.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>>>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the small
    >>>>>>>>>>> number of competitors.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my
    >>>>>>>>>>>> idea involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.

    >
    >>>>>>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and mainly
    >>>>>>>>>> unnessary, technically) duplication of infrastructure. We're
    >>>>>>>>>> paying for all that crap.

    >
    >>>>>>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines, supermarkets,
    >>>>>>>>> etc etc etc too. The short story is that no monopoly ever
    >>>>>>>>> delivers anything like as well as real competition, even tho
    >>>>>>>>> competition isnt theoretically as efficient. In practice no
    >>>>>>>>> monopoly is ever efficient either, essentially because there is
    >>>>>>>>> no incentive to be efficient.

    >
    >>>>>>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without unnecessary
    >>>>>>>> triplication of network infrastructure in barely or unprofitable
    >>>>>>>> areas.

    >
    >>>>>>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys,
    >>>>>>> airlines, supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that
    >>>>>>> no monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>>>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as
    >>>>>>> efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either,
    >>>>>>> essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>>>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such areas,
    >>>>>>>> and charges the remaining operators through roaming agreements.

    >
    >>>>>>> No thanks.

    >
    >>>>>>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>>>>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.

    >
    >>>>>>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage that
    >>>>>>>> way.

    >
    >>>>>>> And a monopoly. No thanks.

    >
    >>>>>> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.

    >
    >>>>> No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.

    >
    >>>> USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.

    >
    >>> There aint no monopoly with mobile phone telcos in the US.

    >
    >>> Or anything like what was being proposed either.

    >
    >>> AND their mobile phone system is MUCH worse than ours anyway.

    >
    >> 'Fraid not.

    >
    > Fraid so.
    >
    >> Never said there was a monopoly in the US either - far from it.

    >
    > Pity it aint anything like 'a separate business created
    > to combine and manage the infrastructure' either.


    When did I ever say that?

    >> And Brazil is another example.

    >
    > A ****ed one compared with ours.

    How so? *Way* better coverage (all the more impressive considering GSM1800
    is used in most states by most operators), nationwide EDGE & much cheaper
    pricing.





  14. #29
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    > Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>> Jeremy Quirke <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Smyth <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Giles <[email protected]> wrote


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting plan... Apparently Optus is looking
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to buy Vodafone's network infrastructure and
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make Vodafone a virtual mobile network operator.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remains to be seen if the ACCC would allow it.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's an interesting one - it would be the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biggest consolidation of the mobile market in
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Australia, ever.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I have the vague recollection that the ACCC has
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> said that they wouldnt allow Telstra or Optarse to buy it.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was before 3 tho, so it may not be quite that
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple now. And that was Fels too, not the current top
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ACCC monkey.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Vodafone would still have distinct customer
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bases though - it's not a merger or total business
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquisition, it's just the network infrastructure.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>> What if a separate business was created to combine and manage the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure?


    >>>>>>>>>>>> The ACCC wont buy such an obvious end run
    >>>>>>>>>>>> if they wont allow Optarse to buy Vodafone.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Optus and Voda would be billed for using it, and they
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> would also be the shareholders.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what the ACCC cares about, a reduction in
    >>>>>>>>>>>> competition when one of the majors lunches on one of the
    >>>>>>>>>>>> small number of competitors.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to float that idea for *weeks*, albeit my
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> idea involved combining the infrastructure of all the networks.


    >>>>>>>>>>>> No thanks. What works is real competition.


    >>>>>>>>>>> You're right, but it pains me to think of the vast (and
    >>>>>>>>>>> mainly unnessary, technically) duplication of
    >>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure. We're paying for all that crap.


    >>>>>>>>>> We are with banks, insurance companys, airlines,
    >>>>>>>>>> supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is that no
    >>>>>>>>>> monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>>>>>>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as
    >>>>>>>>>> efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either,
    >>>>>>>>>> essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.


    >>>>>>>>> But the existing model could be more efficient without
    >>>>>>>>> unnecessary triplication of network infrastructure in barely
    >>>>>>>>> or unprofitable areas.


    >>>>>>>> You can say the same thing about banks, insurance companys,
    >>>>>>>> airlines, supermarkets, etc etc etc too. The short story is
    >>>>>>>> that no monopoly ever delivers anything like as well as real
    >>>>>>>> competition, even tho competition isnt theoretically as
    >>>>>>>> efficient. In practice no monopoly is ever efficient either,
    >>>>>>>> essentially because there is no incentive to be efficient.
    >>>>>>>>> i.e. a subset of the operators provides coverage in such
    >>>>>>>>> areas, and charges the remaining operators through roaming
    >>>>>>>>> agreements.


    >>>>>>>> No thanks.


    >>>>>>>>> These charges are balanced through a different subset of
    >>>>>>>>> operators providing coverage in another low density area.


    >>>>>>>>> Ultimately you might end up getting better overall coverage
    >>>>>>>>> that way.


    >>>>>>>> And a monopoly. No thanks.


    >>>>>>> Seems to work quite well elsewhere.


    >>>>>> No it doesnt, not anywhere at all.


    >>>>> USA is one obvious place that comes to mind.


    >>>> There aint no monopoly with mobile phone telcos in the US.


    >>>> Or anything like what was being proposed either.


    >>>> AND their mobile phone system is MUCH worse than ours anyway.


    >>> 'Fraid not.


    >> Fraid so.


    >>> Never said there was a monopoly in the US either - far from it.


    >> Pity it aint anything like 'a separate business created
    >> to combine and manage the infrastructure' either.


    > When did I ever say that?


    So what were you referring to with your 'USA is one obvious place
    that comes to mind' and 'seems to work quite well elsewhere'
    if it wasnt that which was actually being discussed, or a monopoly ?

    >>> And Brazil is another example.


    >> A ****ed one compared with ours.


    > How so? *Way* better coverage


    Pig ignorant lie.

    > (all the more impressive considering GSM1800 is used in most states by most
    > operators), nationwide EDGE & much cheaper pricing.


    Pig ignorant lie on that last too.





  15. #30
    Albinus
    Guest

    Re: Optus plans buyout of Vodafone network

    A User wrote:

    > I personally think the Voda 2.5 network is the best engineered in
    > Aus, better than Optus and Telstra, it would result in a drop in
    > reliability.



    Just curious, how are you measuring "best engineered"?



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