Cingular's Unconscionable Warranty; "Like Kind"

John, employee no. JK6066, refused to honor the cingular warranty. I own 3 motorolla v180 cell phones. Since the purchase of those devices, they have been defective. All three phones shut themselves off and cannot be restarted without first removing the battery. My warranty from cingular promises that the company will replace defective devices. John recognized that all three cell phones are defective and must be replaced. John violated my warranty by claiming that the warranty's "like kind" provision prevents cingular from replacing the defective motorolla v180 cell phones. Instead, according to john, cingular can only send me three motorolla v180 phones to replace the v180's I already own. That suggestion is ridiculous and clearly violates my rights under the cingular warranty. The motorolla v180 is a piece of junk. That junk status is documented on the internet, just run "motorolla v180" on phonescoop.com. Moreover, all three of my v180 have identical problems. Additionally, my mother's v180 has the same material defects as do my phones and as noted on phonescoop.com and other web sites. Finally, I am entitled to a $30.00 rebate for each v180. To date, I have not received my $90.00 in rebates.

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hey, i'm in the same boat with the c1300. it sucks bad. but what do you expect really. they're not going to give you a "better" phone than what you bought. unfortunately you (and I) chose your crappy phone and have to live with it, replace it with a same model, or fork out the money to upgrade. they violated no warranty. v180s don't have defects; user reviews just deem them inferior. if they were defective, motorola would be doing something about the phone. you'll come to terms with this man. i feel for ya.

Cingular gave me a written warranty. That fact forces the company to also comply with all implied warranties. In this case, the implied warranty of merchantability. Cingular violates that warranty by selling the v180. In my opinion, after six months of use, the v180 is NOT fit for use as a cell phone. It may be a good door stop, or an ok item to throw at a wall, but it sure aint a cell phone.

It shuts itself off. It shuts itself off during conversations. It shuts itself off when not in use. When it shuts itself off you can't just turn it back on. You have to take out the battery, wait, and then hope it actually comes back on. Often it does not. The v180 is not just a bad phone. It's a defective phone that is unfit for the use for which cingular sold it.

Now the warranty led me to believe cingular would replace defective merchandise. John Q. Cingular told me the phones are defective but he refused to send different phones, phones that work. Now I believe that cingular has created a deceptive warranty. That warranty makes you believe defective products will be replaced when cingular only sends you more defective products and claims it has fullfilled its warranty obligations. What a crock!

By the way, Motorolla seems to agree that these phones suck and has stopped making them. Now you can only get the v180 from cingular when they send you one to replace the defective v180 that they sold you to begin with. So everyone seems to agree that these phones are defective (not just substandard) and unfit for use as cell phones. Under the warranty, I am entitled to a cell phone that actually works. According to Federal law, I am also entitled not to be misled by deceptive warranty practices. If you also have a problem with cingular's tactics and policies, I suggest you complain to the Federal Trade Commission https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01 and follow it up with a class action law suit.

First off, let me state that I am not against you. I believe my phone is a piece as well. However, I do think that your disgust in a product is overshadowing Cingular's obligation to give you a new, different branded phone.

Cingular gave me a written warranty. That fact forces the company to also comply with all implied warranties. In this case, the implied warranty of merchantability. Cingular violates that warranty by selling the v180. In my opinion, after six months of use, the v180 is NOT fit for use as a cell phone. It may be a good door stop, or an ok item to throw at a wall, but it sure aint a cell phone.

Unfortunately, this is YOUR belief. I'm not saying one way or the other on whether your phone/s suck. I'll take your word for it. But I HAVE read many positive reviews of this particular phone, as well as seeing it work first hand with my family members.

..... The v180 is not just a bad phone. It's a defective phone that is unfit for the use for which cingular sold it.

Perhaps the unit/s are defective, rather than the model. It is possible. During shipping, unimaginable things can happen to packages. Perhaps you got phones from a production run that had problems. Maybe your batteries came from a different supplier. Who knows. But unless you have them replaced with a similar phone, how can you jump to that conclusion.

...Now I believe that cingular has created a deceptive warranty. That warranty makes you believe defective products will be replaced when cingular only sends you more defective products and claims it has fullfilled its warranty obligations. What a crock!

Warranties will almost always replace with the same model at first. Maybe if you just try a new replacement you will have no problems. If that continues, then seek a new brand/model.

By the way, Motorolla seems to agree that these phones suck and has stopped making them. Now you can only get the v180 from cingular when they send you one to replace the defective v180 that they sold you to begin with. So everyone seems to agree that these phones are defective (not just substandard) and unfit for use as cell phones. .....

Have you ever noticed that companies always come out with new updated models and phase out the existing lines. Obviously it's not the world's greatest phone, otherwise everyone would own one and they'd continue to produce them. But if companies made the same products year in year out with no changes, we'd still be driving Ford Escorts. Improving on a product does not mean the old model is defective.

My bottom line advice, try the replacement phones. See how that goes, then go from there. Good luck.

I won't touch a cingular warranty phone...

Cingular Wireless

My Case: In December 2004, I placed an insurance claim for a LGC1300 phone, payed my $50.00 deductible.

Then on February 28th, 2005 the replacement phone died. The LED display had vertical and horizontal lines, would go dead. I had to turn the phone off and on to get the LED back and only for a short time. So I took the phone to my local (Company owned Cingular Store) and was told to make a warranty claim, since I had only had the phone for two months.

So I called the Cingular Warranty Department (1-800-801-1101), they agreed to sent a replacement. I received the replacement phone in March 2005, sent back the broken phone. Should be the end of it, but it's not.

On my 02/21 – 03/20/05 bill I was charge $75.00. Reason for charge: “Beyond Economic Repair” and they charged me $7.50 for shipping. So I called Cingular Customer Service (1-866-241-6567) and spoke with Carl. I explained my problem.

My position: A replacement phone that I had in my possession for two months die's. There is no local service center that can complete an evaluation. I have no idea why the phone died.

Cark agreed that it wasn't right. That I needed to call and dispute the charges with the Warranty Department, he stated “it's a gimmick”.

On to the Warranty Department. Where I spoke with Ron. After explaining the issues again. I asked what exactly is “Beyond Economic Repair” mean. He stated that they determined that I did something to the phone. I said I didn't, it just stopped working. No he said the technicians said you did it, so that's it. I said, No! I only had the phone for two months, there was no physical damage to the phone. I told Ron that I had taken the phone to the Cingular store I they could see anything wrong with it before I returned it. But because of Cingular policies they were unable to give me any documentation in writing. Ron agreed that it didn't seem right but was unable to assist. So he asked me to hold and spoke with his supervisor Mr. Ryan Jones. Ron relayed Mr. Jones statement “No one in the office (Warranty) can help you. Once the technicians make there determination, you have no recourse”. In addition, the Warranty Department is unable to remove any charges by the “Independent Technicians” (will get to this in a moment).
You need to call Customer Service. Ok…

Lesson1: From what I learned Cingular uses a 3rd party company to evaluation all warranty returns. But, NO one in the Warranty Department could tell me who (company name, address, etc). But, I did learn that this “Company” only gets paid if they find the Cingular Customer at fault and not the phone. (Sound a bit like a reverse HMO). I asked for a copy of the warranty report evaluation, NO, can't have it. Asked for the qualification of the technicians, No, can't give you that either. Asked if the technicians were trained and authorized my the manufacturer, No, can't give you that..

Lesson 2: Replacement phones thur Insurance are “Reconditioned. Replacement phones thru Warranty: Could be Reconditioned (they call it “Like New) or New. They won't tell you. So….
I Call Customer Service, this time I spoke with Joan. After explaining the issues “again”. Joan stated “Customer Service is not authorized to remove Warranty charges from my bill”. You need to call Warranty Department. I explain to Joan I had spoke with warranty already and they sent me back to Customer Service. Joan, No you need to speak with Warranty. So I was transferred. Ok….

Call back to the Warranty Department Spoke with Josh. After explaining the issues “again”. Josh agreed, but was unable to help me. I asked to speak with a supervisor. (hopefully it not Ryan). So I was transferred to Sherisse ID# 2222 (*****ing ??, wouldn't give last name). Sherisse was understanding but the best she could do, was a $25.oo credit. So at this point I'm out $57.50. Expensive lesson - Yes.

Conclusion: Cingular Wireless use their Insurance/Warrenty policies to RIP-Off, and scam the consumer. They do not offer there customers any avenue to dispute charges, they offer no reports or written documentation on “their technicians findings”. So, if this 3rd party company only gets paid when they find the customer at fault. My guess - it is a high percentage of at customer fault findings. But, there is no way to find out.

So what is a consumer to do, individually nothing. The Wireless company's will continue to great unscrupulous practices. Until consumers as a whole fight back. Be on notice. Be prepared to pay.

Well to me it sounds like you are not satisfied with Cingular's service. I'm surprised that they would not replace the defective phone for free. After all, you said it was reconditioned. Did you mention this to anyone in warranties? That might make a difference. Maybe not.

Maybe since you are being charged (unjustly i think) for the replacement and warranty, you should try to exit your contract and switch to a different carrier. Or if you are happy with the service, maybe you should search for a phone online on Ebay or similarly.

Check with your phone manufacturer too. See if they are aware of any issues that you are having. You may be able to get a statement from them of possible known problems which would affect how the warranty department is handling the replacement.

It sounds like you received a raw deal. It's especially frustrating when you go around in circles with the customer service.

Also, doesn't your local dealer have anything they can offer you? I'm surprised they can't help you more than just by nodding their heads and agreeing!

Originally Posted by nic_hitchins

Well to me it sounds like you are not satisfied with Cingular's service. I'm surprised that they would not replace the defective phone for free. After all, you said it was reconditioned. Did you mention this to anyone in warranties? That might make a difference. Maybe not.

Maybe since you are being charged (unjustly i think) for the replacement and warranty, you should try to exit your contract and switch to a different carrier. Or if you are happy with the service, maybe you should search for a phone online on Ebay or similarly.

Check with your phone manufacturer too. See if they are aware of any issues that you are having. You may be able to get a statement from them of possible known problems which would affect how the warranty department is handling the replacement.

It sounds like you received a raw deal. It's especially frustrating when you go around in circles with the customer service.

Also, doesn't your local dealer have anything they can offer you? I'm surprised they can't help you more than just by nodding their heads and agreeing!

"Replacing one defective product with another defective product, or an inferior product, is itself a breach of warranty."

a refurbished or new replacement is not technically defective. it is in the same condition as one that came directly off the first production line.

if it is a low quality phone, that's all it is. but it is not defective unless LG issues a recall or replacement.

if you are having this many issues with it, i recommend talking to the manufacturer.

Originally Posted by nic_hitchins

a refurbished or new replacement is not technically defective. it is in the same condition as one that came directly off the first production line.

if it is a low quality phone, that's all it is. but it is not defective unless LG issues a recall or replacement.

if you are having this many issues with it, i recommend talking to the manufacturer.

If v180 are made to not work, then they are defective. In fact, if v180's are knowingly made not to work or made that way with indifference, then a cause of action will likely lie against those involved with the product. That might be the manufacturer and any reseller that fails to use reasonable care to determine the viability of the product they are selling.

Do you really believe that cingular doesn't know the v180 is junk?

i agree with only parts of what you say.

some products just aren't as good as others. this is a fact of life. i'm sorry you feel a v180 isn't great. if you are looking for a 'better' phone, fork out the money and buy a higher rated one at the time of purchase. i still stand by my experiences with people who say it is wonderful. i'm sorry yours isn't.

that being said. quality in products makes for a competitive market. obviously there are better phones than a v180. there's better phones than the Razr. whatever. that does not make either defective.

the v180 WAS made to work. i have seen it work. therefore it is not defective. your whole theory is busted. if you are unsatisfied, i urge you to talk to the manufacturer.

it seems like this thread keeps going in circles. just because you say your phone doesn't work, it does not mean it's defective!

and to answer your final question...no i don't think that cingular 'knows the v180 is junk.'

Originally Posted by nic_hitchins

i agree with only parts of what you say.

some products just aren't as good as others. this is a fact of life. i'm sorry you feel a v180 isn't great. if you are looking for a 'better' phone, fork out the money and buy a higher rated one at the time of purchase. i still stand by my experiences with people who say it is wonderful. i'm sorry yours isn't.

that being said. quality in products makes for a competitive market. obviously there are better phones than a v180. there's better phones than the Razr. whatever. that does not make either defective.

the v180 WAS made to work. i have seen it work. therefore it is not defective. your whole theory is busted. if you are unsatisfied, i urge you to talk to the manufacturer.

it seems like this thread keeps going in circles. just because you say your phone doesn't work, it does not mean it's defective!

and to answer your final question...no i don't think that cingular 'knows the v180 is junk.'

You must be a dupe for the company. I suppose you thought that the v60 and the v120 were NOT defective. To go further, you probably don't believe that any product could be defective or that any company would intentionally make and sell defective products.

1. i do not work for the company, nor do i have any affiliation with it, other than being a customer.

2. i don't appreciate your rudeness. it's nice to see that you have resulted to name calling on an otherwise civil post discussion. thanks alot.

3. i don't know either of those phones, nor do i find it relevant. i also have told you numerous times that i have nothing but positive feedback concerning v180 phones. therefore i will not agree with you on it being defective.

Originally Posted by customslawyer

... I suppose you thought that the v60 and the v120 were NOT defective...

If you had this strong of feelings about the other Moto products, why did you even purchase the v180. Now that I see that info, defective v180s or not, you deserve what you got. Don't buy something if you have those feelings.

As cynical as you present yourself, I'm surprised you bought what you did. Actually, I'm laughing at it.

The Motorola V180 phone was known to be defective, that's why T-Mobile has the V188 out now. My Motorola territory rep. said that a lot of the V180's were being sent back to the company. So they replaced it with the V188 which was suppose to fix the problems the V180 had. Now I don't know if Cingular has it or not, and if they do I don't know if they would be able to replace your V180 with it or not.

Originally Posted by cseabourn

The Motorola V180 phone was known to be defective, that's why T-Mobile has the V188 out now. My Motorola territory rep. said that a lot of the V180's were being sent back to the company. So they replaced it with the V188 which was suppose to fix the problems the V180 had. Now I don't know if Cingular has it or not, and if they do I don't know if they would be able to replace your V180 with it or not.

Thank you for some input on this issue. What you have said makes complete sense.

From checking Cingular.com, they don't offer the v180, or the v188. I guess that doesn't mean the individual stores don't carry them though.

What's your take on this whole issue?

Well for the warranty, I need to know if it is a Limited Warranty or if he has the Full Equipment Replacement Program. If he only has the Limited then he shouldn't have to pay a deductible, ecspecially if it was due to defective equipment. Now in the warranty they say that they will replace the device with one comparable in kind and quality. I don't think it says that it has to be brand new equipment.