So why don't you do what they did and get them to send you a completely different phone and see if that works.

because then he would be happy, and have nothing to argue about.

Your first post said: "unfortunately you (and I) chose your crappy phone and have to live with it, replace it with a same model, or fork out the money to upgrade." Now you say I'm entitled to a brand new, different model, upgraded phone just by exchanging the junk cingular sold me. Make up your mind.

I also understand that you can't or won't address the real issues. This situation highlights questionable corporate behavior. You and your ilk fly to the defense of all manner of corporate policy. You blame the consumer for getting screwed and complaining about it. You don't actually have to work for a company to be their dupe. All that's needed is for you to blindly accept the company line and shout real loud at anyone who disagrees.

man, let me clear up some stuff:

since we first started this debate, new info has presented itself concerning the 'defective' issue. i'll admit, i will recognize that the phone may be defective. but you must agree, that if you want cingular to abide by the warranty, you must also abide by the warranty process.

from what other posts have said, it is possible to get a completely different phone. i didn't know this. and your original request/want didn't explain any of these extraneous circumstances.

so, i would agree that if you receive a 2nd defective phone, cingular by all means should furnish you with a different make or model phone.

i don't think cingular really did anything 'questionable.' from a business standpoint, they can't just bend on every complaint they get from a customer. if that was the case, neither you nor i would be their customers as their flexibility on replacements would cause a drastic rise in service price to cover the replacement costs.

i'm not blind to corporate jargons, just rational in the sense of consumer costs.

It now seems that our viewpoints differ only by degrees. I am probably more skeptical of situations involving corporations that inexplicably cost consumers time, money, and aggravation, while concomitantly conferring some form of benefit upon the corporation. I've helped too many corporations create similar situations involving the federal government and other (competing) corporations. You have to understand that at the corporate level of many companies, cost savings and revenue generation are holy dogma and individuals, departments, divisions, and companies failing to produce year in and year out are often eliminated. These aggressive cultures often produce programs and policies that are short sighted to the point of being selfdestructive. More frequently, they produce situations about which the average consumer should be outraged and should refuse to deal over. Unfortunately, many people are deceived into believing that corporate policies are somehow immutable facts of life or economic reality. They are not. As already mentions, those policies are often merely the byproduct of aggressive corporate cultures; ultimately no better for the company than for the consumer.

ok, if we're going to start a corporate debate on the ethics of business, you might as well stop now. i'm not on this forum to debate business. i originally replied to you in reference to your warranty complaints. pure and simple.

in fact, your divergence into this new topic is really of little relevance to our conversation. you obviously sound like you are versed in the sense of business and corporate behaviors, however, i do not wish to continue a conversation on a topic such as that.

that being said, i think that your skepticism is clouding your vision on this issue. posts in this thread have supported my view. you must realize that, as i have agreed to your view of the phone being defective. these points can now be used as evidence to sustain both our arguments. however, i think you need to realize that due to the warranty that you agreed to, you are required to follow their replacement process steps.

although it may be viewed as inconvenient or nonsensical to you, there are also good reasons that these requirements are in place. the simple fact of having refurbished phones shows that they are willing to fix problems and reuse these as replacements for new problems. if they took your v180 on just your complaints alone, and replaced it with a better model such as a v551 (which may be a stretch to high), obviously they would be losing money. you cannot argue that. and ultimately, costs of running the business are pushed to us, rather than trimming their profit margin.

and also, my friend, these views are not exclusive to large corporations such as cingular. i am employed at a family run business, which treats its employees like extended family. we also pride ourselves on our customer service. however, you better believe that we have methods in place that prevent these type of situations to arise.

nice new avatar customslawyer!

i guess this discussion is over then. i have noticed customslawyer isn't listed in the member directory anymore.

After readimg this complete thread, I think it's better he's not a member.

I would have to take issue with what you say about it being Motorola's warranty and NOT Cingular's warranty. First of all, I'm no lawyer, but what I do recall from having taken Business Law is that when it comes to product liability, you can not only go after the manufacturer of the product but also the retailer that sells that product. In other words, a person could go after Cingular for selling a defective piece of junk. Cingular is responsible for what they put on their shelves to sell. Just as responsible as the manufacturer. It is just the same as if you bought a defective item from Wal-Mart and it causes injury. You can go after Wal-Mart for selling that defective item that caused the injury just as easily as you could the manufacturer.