Consumer Reports: iPhone 4 - Not recommended

In article <[email protected]>, Jeff
Liebermann <[email protected]> wrote:

> Please don't use bars for signal strength unless you know
> whether the phone uses SNR or signal strength for an indication, and
> know the dynamic range of the bar graph.

a very good point. now tell that to the masses who are basing their
criticism of the iphone 4 on the number of bars they see, rather than
actual data or whether calls drop (which some have said does not happen
as often).

---

› See More: Consumer Reports: iPhone 4 - Not recommended

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:37:10 -0700, in
<mn2%[email protected]>, "John Richards"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I trust CR's engineers. They're not dummies.

No, but they do have a spotty track record in areas where they don't
have established expertise.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:11:44 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, Jeff Liebermann
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:54:04 -0700, nospam <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, John Slade
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>>> to the antenna.
>>
>>touch any phone's antenna, watch what happens.
>
>Did you actually try it? I did with several phones that have
>projecting antennas. LG VX8000, VX8100, and VX8300 on Verizon
>(900MHz). Also, Motorola RAZR V3m. I can wrap my hand around the
>antenna and get maybe a -4dB drop (about 1 bar). A 1900Mhz PCS phone
>will probably have a larger drop.
>
>Might as well try it right now.... Going into field test mode, and
>making a call. Rx power = -75dBm. Wrap my hand around the antenna,
>and it drops to -78dBm (average). Not much but enough to drop a call
>if I'm in a marginal area. Now, compare that to the iPhone 4 drop of
>about 30dB.
>
>Try it:
><www.wpsantennas.com/pdf/testmode/FieldTestModes.pdf>

T-Mobile myTouch 3G 3.5mm Jack (aka HTC Magic, Android 1.6)
No case. Signal strength unaffected by holding it in any
way I can think of.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:11:05 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, Peter Lawrence
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/13/10 9:03 AM, John Navas wrote:
>>
>> While there are some hardware problems that can be worked-around or at
>> least alleviated in software, there are also some that cannot, and this
>> looks to me to be more likely in the latter category, with only fig leaf
>> fixes (e.g., no signal strength meter) possible.
>>
>> I think the interesting question is whether or not Apple will try to
>> slipstream a change to the iPhone 4 hardware, or tough out this design
>> for a year until iPhone 5.
>>
>> The problem of toughing it out is that the problem will continue to grow
>> should it ultimately lose in court or in the court of public opinion.
>>
>> The problem with a slipstream change is that it would throw fuel on the
>> fire of the criticism and lawsuits unless Apple is prepared to offer
>> free hardware swaps, which would be a huge hit to the bottom line.
>>
>> I personally think Apple will probably continue to stonewall and push
>> fig leaf "solutions", risking its brand, because that's the Steve Jobs
>> Way. How successful that will be only time will tell.
>
>Probably the least costly solution for Apple would be to repackage the
>iPhone 4 with those new "bumpers" that Apple is trying to sell for an
>additional $29. Those silicon bumpers probably doesn't cost more than 10
>cents to manufacture and they solve the iPhone 4 antenna problem. They
>could offer this bumper (in basic black) for free to anyone who already had
>bought an iPhone 4.
>
>http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC...co=MTM3NTI0ODg
>
>They could still try to sell the bumpers that come in other colors for those
>who are into customizing the look of their iPhones.

Or give the bumper away free, one to a customer, in Apple and AT&T
stores if you bring in an iPhone 4, for $5-10 by US mail. But that
would be admitting a problem, which is not the Steve Jobs Way, and
dangerous in the litigation.

--
John

If the iPhone and iPad are really so impressive,
then why do iFans keep making excuses for them?

In article <[email protected]>, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:

> T-Mobile myTouch 3G 3.5mm Jack (aka HTC Magic, Android 1.6)
> No case. Signal strength unaffected by holding it in any
> way I can think of.

big deal. some iphone users report no issue no matter how they hold it
either. others do.

"Ted Nelson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> John Slade <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
>> a software issue.
>
> you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.

Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
circumvented with software.
--
John Richards

On 7/13/2010 12:46 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<t_2%[email protected]>, John Slade
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> However many people have implemented the patch and still have
>>>> the problem. There are videos on the Internet confirming this.
>>>
>>> really? what videos confirm people have installed a nonexistent patch?
>>
>> Well I don't know if the patch is out yet,
>
> so why did you say it was?
>
>> but that's what
>> some people have said.
>
> people say a lot of things
>

Yea they sure do. What I heard was that the firmware
patch didn't solve the problem so I assumed it was already out.

>
>>>> The antenna is in a bad place, plain and simple.
>>>
>>> where else would you put it?
>>
>> On the inside, maybe on the top and bottom rather than all
>> around. I'm no antenna engineer but I would probably put it
>> where people won't touch it by normal use.
>
> you're no antenna engineer, yet you have diagnosed the problem and have
> a solution before actual antenna engineers have? how do you explain
> that?

I'm just that good.

>
>>> nokia, sanyo and samsung have warnings how to hold their phones
>>> properly, probably other brands too.
>>
>> What does this have to do with Apple's problem? That's what
>> a lot of Mac freaks do, they say "Look someone else has a
>> problem!" That's a very lame argument.
>
> actually it shows how hypocritical people are.

How? I never said other phones don't have problems.

>if apple does it, it's
> bad, but when someone else does it, nobody cares. why isn't it a
> problem when nokia or sanyo phones tell you how to hold them properly?

Because Apple tries to hide the problem and then lie
about the problem. I've seen other companies do this too but
nobody does it in a flamboyant way like Apple. I mean you have
to admit that it takes Apple a long time to admit there are
problems with their hardware.

>
>>>> This allows me to figure out a couple of things. Apple rushed the
>>>> iPhone 4 to market without proper testing. They rushed it to
>>>> market to keep up with companies who are putting out phones that
>>>> are more advanced than the iPhone. Apple didn't want to fall
>>>> behind.
>>>
>>> nonsense.
>>
>> Apple is falling behind and losing sales on the iPhone 4 to
>> Android devices.
>
> nope. android is gaining momentum but apple still has a much larger
> market share based on recent surveys. june& july numbers are not out
> yet. apple sold 2 million iphone 4s in a couple of days, versus a
> couple of weeks for android to do that.

Yea and I bet a lot of those people regret the purchase.
Apple sales tend to taper off after the people who camp out at
stores buy the initial stock. Also most of the iPhone 4
purchases are people upgrading from their older iPhones. Some
report said it was over 70% of iPhone 4 purchases were by people
who owned previous iPhones. So I can see how Android can
overtake them in a year or two given the gains by Android in the
previous year.


>
>> With the multiple problems with the iPhone 4,
>> they will never catch up with The Blackberry and Android based
>> phones will overtake them in a relatively short time.
>
> blackberry is faltering. android probably will overtake apple in unit
> sales but so what?

Great argument "but so what"... Priceless.

John

John Richards wrote:
> "Ted Nelson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> John Slade <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>>> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
>>> a software issue.
>> you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.
>
> Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
> circumvented with software.


Ha, tell that to the fanbois (and gurlz).

In article <CF5%[email protected]>, John Slade
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Yea and I bet a lot of those people regret the purchase.

if they do, they can return it and get a full refund.

> Apple sales tend to taper off after the people who camp out at
> stores buy the initial stock. Also most of the iPhone 4
> purchases are people upgrading from their older iPhones. Some
> report said it was over 70% of iPhone 4 purchases were by people
> who owned previous iPhones. So I can see how Android can
> overtake them in a year or two given the gains by Android in the
> previous year.

according to what i read, 77% of people waiting in line at apple stores
were upgrading, which is not that surprising since at&t knocked 6
months off the contract. however, there are no numbers for the people
who bought them online or overseas, so that number is a bit misleading.

> >> With the multiple problems with the iPhone 4,
> >> they will never catch up with The Blackberry and Android based
> >> phones will overtake them in a relatively short time.
> >
> > blackberry is faltering. android probably will overtake apple in unit
> > sales but so what?
>
> Great argument "but so what"... Priceless.

market share isn't everything. you snipped the part where i said that
the smartphone market is big enough for more than just one option.
competition is good, it makes for better products.

On 7/13/2010 12:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:35:10 -0700, nospam<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> The antenna is in a bad place, plain and simple.
>>
>> where else would you put it?
>
> See photos:
> <http://gizmodo.com/5581253/there-fixed>
>

LOL. Actually that might not be such a bad idea. I can see
Apple selling a little Apple that fits on top of the antenna.
Reminds me of a walkie talkie I had...

John

In article <130720101534590197%[email protected]>,
nospam <[email protected]> wrote:

> according to what i read, 77% of people waiting in line at apple stores
> were upgrading, which is not that surprising since at&t knocked 6
> months off the contract. however, there are no numbers for the people
> who bought them online or overseas, so that number is a bit misleading.

Then I guess I would count as a genuine "new" iPhone customer. I tried
to slip the iPhone onto my old AT&T account, but since it is a business
account, they wouldn't do it. So...I just did it from scratch: all new.
As soon as I got home, I called AT&T and moved the iPhone into my
business account, and shared the minutes and features with my old Nokia,
which serves as a backup device. No muss, no fuss.

One thing about AT&T: their user account administration has improved
over the years by an order of magnitude.

--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last

In article <yx5%[email protected]>,
"John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ted Nelson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > John Slade <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
> >> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
> >> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
> >> a software issue.
> >
> > you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.
>
> Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
> circumvented with software.

Virtual circumvention. At least it "appears" to solve the problem.

--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last

On 13/07/10 3:12 PM, John Richards wrote:
> "Ted Nelson"<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> John Slade<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>>> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
>>> a software issue.
>>
>> you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.
>
> Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
> circumvented with software.

There are often software work-arounds to partially mitigate hardware
problems, but they rarely actually fix the problem completely,
especially in the case of RF problems and thermal problems. I've done a
lot of work in this regard. For thermal problems, the software fix is
often dynamically reducing processor performance based on the feedback
of the internal temp sensors. RF problems with internal antennas are
especially difficult to solve because you've got the conflicting
requirements of passing FCC Class B, while at the same time maximizing
RF performance. Apple's idea of external antennas in the steel band was
not a bad idea, they just didn't think through all the issues with this
sort of approach, and how the signal would be attenuated by someone
touching the antenna. I wonder if all the real-world testing was done
with the iPhone4 inside a case in order to hide what it was.

The real workaround in this case is to use a case to insulate the
antenna from the skin. Apple would gain immense good publicity if they
acknowledged the problem and simply gave a case away free with each
iPhone4. Then they can take their time to come up with a permanent fix
on future production or future models. If they don't do anything it'll
be _really_ interesting to see the iPhone 5 and if they continue with
exposed metal antenna band or not.

On 7/13/2010 7:06 PM, John Higdon wrote:
> In article<yx5%[email protected]>,
> "John Richards"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Ted Nelson"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> John Slade<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>>>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>>>> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
>>>> a software issue.
>>>
>>> you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.
>>
>> Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
>> circumvented with software.
>
> Virtual circumvention. At least it "appears" to solve the problem.
>


How appropriate for the iToy fan.

On 13/07/10 4:06 PM, John Higdon wrote:
> In article<yx5%[email protected]>,
> "John Richards"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Ted Nelson"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> John Slade<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yea it's clear from Youtube videos and tests like the one
>>>> from CR that the iPhone 4 has a hardware problem when it comes
>>>> to the antenna. Apple is flat out lying when they say it's only
>>>> a software issue.
>>>
>>> you can fix most any hardware problem through software don't forget.
>>
>> Not so. The laws of physics (including antenna efficiency) can't be
>> circumvented with software.
>
> Virtual circumvention. At least it "appears" to solve the problem.

I'm reminded of a place I worked and our "virtual thermal sensor"
software fix that we came up with for a customer. It circumvented the
hardware problem, but it was really not a fix, it was a workaround. The
fix came in the next rev of silicon. The real fix for the iPhone antenna
issue is no doubt being feverishly worked on, and meanwhile you see the
tidbits of advice like "use a bumper" or "hold it different."