Why will they only sell me 2 phones

Simon Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>> The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never
> >>> registered, are they?
> >>
> >> Ermm, Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
> >
> > Not very bright are you?
>
> Which bit of "if the sim is sold separately" did you not understand?

The point is that box breakers very rarely bother selling SIMs - they're
worth very little compared with the profit from the phone, so why
bother?
--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

---

› See More: Why will they only sell me 2 phones

"Paul D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Simon Watkins wrote:
>> "SteveH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:1h71kvo.6pgulp3km2cyN%[email protected]...
>>> Simon Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I see this sort of thing said a lot. Never understood how box
>>>>>> breaking,
>>>>>> where phone and sim are sold separately, loses the networks
>>>>>> money. If the
>>>>>> sim is sold and subsequently, the network makes money does it not?
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> network is never going to make any money from a phone sale. Only
>>>>>> a sim
>>>>>> sale. And that happens, even if the package is split with both
>>>>>> parts sold
>>>>>> separately.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, the SIMs rarely get used - box breakers only do it for the
>>>>> phone.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
>>>
>>> The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never
>>> registered, are they?
>>
>> Ermm, Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
>
> Not very bright are you?

Which bit of "if the sim is sold separately" did you not understand?

"SteveH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h71lgz.s6g16q1orpnz5N%[email protected]...
> Simon Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never registered,
>> > are they?
>>
>> Ermm, Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
>
> Oh, ffs!
>
> If the SIM is never registered or used then the network doesn't make any
> money......

Calm down dear. We agree that if the SIM is never registered or used then
the network doesn't make money.

>you're saying that if the SIM is sold separately and used
> then the network isn't going to lose out.

Absolutely.

>I'm saying that a large
> proportion of box breakers don't even bother doing anything with the
> SIM, so they've had a cheap phone subsidised by the network, but the SIM
> for that phone has more than likely been binned / put on a shelf
> gathering dust.

In which case the Network does lose out. I agree, no contention there
either then.

> Why is that so hard for you to understand?

It's not. I agree with you (FFS!). The OP poster said that the network
loses out if the box is split, and the phone AND sim are sold separately. I
say if the SIM is sold AND used separately, the network doesn't lose out.
If the SIM is discarded, then the network does lose out. I see no reason
for you to get your panties in a twist.

Peace

Simon

"SteveH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h71ugr.g91sq81n56gx3N%[email protected]...
> Simon Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >>> The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never
>> >>> registered, are they?
>> >>
>> >> Ermm, Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
>> >
>> > Not very bright are you?
>>
>> Which bit of "if the sim is sold separately" did you not understand?
>
> The point is that box breakers very rarely bother selling SIMs - they're
> worth very little compared with the profit from the phone, so why
> bother?

It's all margin isn't it? The number of SIMs selling on Ebay shows that
there is a market.

On 3 Dec 2005 23:43:09 -0800, "Mozzer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>The pay as you go market in the UK is very heavily subsidised where the
>phones are almost free. The Telco makes up for this with very high
>charges for the calls. There is a big problem for the telco's with
>people buying the phones, never registering them, then unlocking them
>and sending to a market where the phone is worth far more (Hong Kong
>being one of them). As many a 1/3 of sets sold as PAYG never get
>registered.
>Restricting people to two phones at a visit is to make it difficult for
>these people to buy up large quantities at one go. They would buy 100
>boxes if they were allowed.

If the networks reckon they're being ripped off by having the handsets
which they have so heavily subsised being exported, why do they
subsidise them? Overall, it must be paying them. I'd sooner pay a
realistic price for the handset and have cheaper calls; wouldn't most
people?

--
Alasdair.

"Dr Cuthbert Twelvetrees" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:m%[email protected]

[snip]

> At the end of the day when they count up the takings from
> the till, the same amount's gonna be in there whether the
> phones were bought in bulk or trickle sold throughout the
> day?

True, but what would you say to Woolworths or whoever if you went in to
buy one or two phones and the person in front of you in the queue had just
bought the entire stock..?

Ivor

"Alasdair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[snip]

> If the networks reckon they're being ripped off by having
> the handsets which they have so heavily subsised being
> exported, why do they subsidise them? Overall, it
> must be paying them. I'd sooner pay a realistic price
> for the handset and have cheaper calls; wouldn't most
> people?

No, they want the illusion of getting a "free" phone.

If the networks did as you suggest (and I agree with you BTW) then people
wouldn't "upgrade" so often and they'd lose revenue. They must hate me,
I've had my two Nokia 6310i phones for 3 years and have no plans to
replace them. In fact I have a spare for when one finally breaks..!

Ivor

> If the networks reckon they're being ripped off by having the handsets
> which they have so heavily subsised being exported, why do they
> subsidise them? Overall, it must be paying them. I'd sooner pay a
> realistic price for the handset and have cheaper calls; wouldn't most
> people?

No. In the UK market there is an expection (created by the networks)
that phones should be "free". People will sign up to any price plan just
to secure a cheap handset without considering the combined cost of
calls plus handset.

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:54:43 +0000, [email protected] (SteveH)
wrote:

>Simon Watkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >> I see this sort of thing said a lot. Never understood how box breaking,
>> >> where phone and sim are sold separately, loses the networks money. If
>> >> the
>> >> sim is sold and subsequently, the network makes money does it not? The
>> >> network is never going to make any money from a phone sale. Only a sim
>> >> sale. And that happens, even if the package is split with both parts
>> >> sold
>> >> separately.
>> >
>> > However, the SIMs rarely get used - box breakers only do it for the
>> > phone.
>>
>> Yes, I quite agree. But that wasn't what was being said.
>
>The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never registered,
>are they?

Do you have to register a PAYG SIM before using it? I've just set up a
Voda PAYg phone that works perfectly and I've not registered the SIM
>
>So they're selling a subsidised phone, but never making the money back
>on calls.
>
>It's even more complex that that, though, as retailers only get paid
>their commission on phones that are registered - given that commission
>is the only margin in most PAYG sales you can see why they'd not want to
>sell bulk quantities to people who aren't going to register the SIM.

A retailer wouldn't want to sell one phone if they thought the SIM
wasn't going to be registered and their commission relied on it.

"Alasdair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If the networks reckon they're being ripped off by having the handsets
> which they have so heavily subsised being exported, why do they
> subsidise them? Overall, it must be paying them. I'd sooner pay a
> realistic price for the handset and have cheaper calls; wouldn't most
> people?

Nope. I much prefer the current situation where phones are subsidised, line
rental is free and calls are expensive. So do most people I know.

People who use their mobiles sensibly, ie only use them when they actually
*need* to contact someone when mobile and don't use them for gassing about
nothing in particular (that's what landlines are for), are much better off under
the current system.

--
Andy

"Alasdair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I went into a Woolworths store the other day to buy some pay-as-you-go
> mobile phones as Christmas pressies but was told I was only allowed to
> buy two phones per visit to the store. That seems a bit odd as surely
> they're in business to sell the things.
>
> It would seem that I could buy as many as I wanted provided I was
> prepared to buy 2, go out of the store, come back in and buy another 2
> and so on.
>
> Is this the law of the land since I have since been told that a
> similar rule applies in Argos stores?
>
> It seems very stupid to me!
>
> --
> Alasdair.

This has been well explained from the telco's point of view. For a retailer
such as Argos or Woolworths etc they make a loss on selling you the
handset.The telco only pays the retailer their incentive when the phone is
activated (by you) and topped up.

No activation or top up = loss by retailer. They don't want you buying 30
phones flying to spain and selling them on making yourself a tidy profit.
Apparently this has happened on a number of occasions and is the reason that
they are rationed.

Nothing to stop you visiting several retailers / towns though.

Andy.

Peter <[email protected]> wrote:

> >The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is never registered,
> >are they?
>
> Do you have to register a PAYG SIM before using it? I've just set up a
> Voda PAYg phone that works perfectly and I've not registered the SIM

By registering, I mean putting said SIM in the phone and using it.

> >So they're selling a subsidised phone, but never making the money back
> >on calls.
> >
> >It's even more complex that that, though, as retailers only get paid
> >their commission on phones that are registered - given that commission
> >is the only margin in most PAYG sales you can see why they'd not want to
> >sell bulk quantities to people who aren't going to register the SIM.
>
> A retailer wouldn't want to sell one phone if they thought the SIM
> wasn't going to be registered and their commission relied on it.

Not exactly - it's a balance of probabilities. Most people will use the
SIM, so the commission they get from those that use them more than
covers the odd one that doesn't get used. However, if they were to be
selling bulk quantities of phones to box-breakers, the balance would tip
the other way.
--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Peter" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]

[snip]

> Do you have to register a PAYG SIM before using it? I've
> just set up a Voda PAYg phone that works perfectly and
> I've not registered the SIM

Only Orange in the UK require registration for a PAYG SIM. In fact the
phone number isn't assigned until you do. Personally I like this idea as
it means less phone numbers that are never going to be used sitting on
shop shelves.

Ivor

"SteveH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h723cz.yilxkrhnob2hN%[email protected]
> Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > The networks aren't going to make money if the SIM is
> > > never registered, are they?
> >
> > Do you have to register a PAYG SIM before using it?
> > I've just set up a Voda PAYg phone that works perfectly
> > and I've not registered the SIM
>
> By registering, I mean putting said SIM in the phone and
> using it.

That isn't the definition of registering. This is giving your name,
address etc. to the networks. Only Orange require this in the UK at
present.

Ivor

"Dr Cuthbert Twelvetrees" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:m%[email protected]...
>
> That's an issue for the telco not Woolworths surely?
>
> At the end of the day when they count up the takings from the till, the
> same amount's gonna be in there whether the phones were bought in bulk or
> trickle sold throughout the day?

People who by them in bulk are more than likely to try and resell them
(either as-is, or by unlocking the handsets beforehand).

A high percentage of these (especially ones that are unlocked) will never
have the SIMs registered - the networks will keep a record of this, and
persistent offending retaillers will be 'told off'.

Why do you think that most of the large retaillers now insist on a 'minimum
top-up' at the point of sale!

--
Antz
Part of the UKtm family