Orange 'stealing' call-time

Sorry, couldn't think of an appropriate heading for this unfortunate
situation.

I don't own a Mobile, but my mother has just bought herself a new one, and
I've been putting the old one in my bag, switched off, when I go to work,
with the intention of her sending free PC to Mobile texts (via O2).

I have registered the phone on Oranges on-line account management system,
and have been checking the balance for the last few nights. It has been
going down without me using it, and I strongly suspect it's something to
do with all the Football score texts that keep coming through on it, that
neither I nor my mother have requested.

Can anyone confirm that's what it is, and how this service has been
'arranged' without my mothers knowledge. She put £10 top-up on it only a
month ago, and has used it very little.

Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).

Also, because she put £10 top-up on, she got a £1 bonus top up (to be used
within the month), but according to 453, there's only 65p left, even
though not all of the £10 has been used.

Thanks in advance

---

› See More: Orange 'stealing' call-time

Paul,

Have you tried replying with the word "STOP"?

I believe THAT is the protocol that is adopted by most operators nowadays.

IF that doesn't work, contact one of the communications controlling bodies
(ICTAS?? formerley OFTEL (I THINK)

Good luck

Psst. Maybe your mother has not informed you that she IS in fact interested
in football?? ;-) (having found knitting boring!)






"Paul S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry, couldn't think of an appropriate heading for this unfortunate
> situation.
>
> I don't own a Mobile, but my mother has just bought herself a new one, and
> I've been putting the old one in my bag, switched off, when I go to work,
> with the intention of her sending free PC to Mobile texts (via O2).
>
> I have registered the phone on Oranges on-line account management system,
> and have been checking the balance for the last few nights. It has been
> going down without me using it, and I strongly suspect it's something to
> do with all the Football score texts that keep coming through on it, that
> neither I nor my mother have requested.
>
> Can anyone confirm that's what it is, and how this service has been
> 'arranged' without my mothers knowledge. She put £10 top-up on it only a
> month ago, and has used it very little.
>
> Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>
> Also, because she put £10 top-up on, she got a £1 bonus top up (to be used
> within the month), but according to 453, there's only 65p left, even
> though not all of the £10 has been used.
>
> Thanks in advance
>

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> Can anyone confirm that's what it is

Almost certainly.

> and how this service has been
> 'arranged' without my mothers knowledge.

Easily done form the handsets "information" menu. Reply with STOP ALL
and they should stop.

> Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).

If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
service operator should refund you really. What number are they coming
from?
--
Regards
Jon

"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[snip]

> If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service
> then the service operator should refund you really. What
> number are they coming from?

Orange wouldn't refund me when I had an unasked-for reverse-billed SMS. I
had to complain to the company concerned, who to give them fair due did
so.

Ivor

Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [snip]
>
> > If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service
> > then the service operator should refund you really.
> > What
> > number are they coming from?
>
> Orange wouldn't refund me when I had an unasked-for reverse-billed SMS. I
> had to complain to the company concerned, who to give them fair due did
> so.

Easymobile wouldn't refund me either, and the company that billed me
doesn't answer any calls. I've considered a further complaint to the
regulators, but I've wasted enough of my own time on this already. It
cost about £5 because I received several texts (sex chat requests!) over
two days while the phone was on, but I wasn't in the house.

My experience with Easymobile was while their CS responded quickly and
seemed to 'care'- they basically said it wasn't their problem, and that
the only reason I would have received the text was if I suscribed or
otherwise gave permission for my number to be used in this way. My
easymobile number was a number I only used to make calls from the
periold when they had the very cheap mobile calls as part of their
initial promotion. I never have out the number to anyone or any
organisation. I don't even know the number myself without looking it up.

I'm firmly convinced that this is allowed to go on because the mobile
companies make a bit of money without pissing off too many users. Quite
simply, reverse charging text should be a service that should have to be
set up specifically by the user, not automatically as default. The fact
that most mobile companies don't offer this option speaks volumes.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [snip]
>
>> If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service
>> then the service operator should refund you really. What
>> number are they coming from?
>
> Orange wouldn't refund me when I had an unasked-for reverse-billed
> SMS. I had to complain to the company concerned, who to give them
> fair due did so.
>

In this case I suspect Jon is presuming it is the Orange football text
alerts (accessible from the SIM menu), in which case the company concerned
to complain to *is* Orange. Otherwise, yes, contact the company concerned.

If from Orange, the texts will show from 247, or similar. If from a third
party, they will most likely be from 8XXXX.

Chris

KevinX wrote:

> IF that doesn't work, contact one of the communications controlling bodies
> (ICTAS?? formerley OFTEL (I THINK)

Wrong on both counts - ICSTIS and Ofcom.

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> It
> cost about £5 because I received several texts (sex chat requests!) over
> two days while the phone was on, but I wasn't in the house.

Not much of a chat then was it!
--
Regards
Jon

"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>
> If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
> service operator should refund you really.

Any suggestions on how one proves this? The onus should be on the operator
to prove that the subscriber opted in, not the other way around.

"Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>>
>> If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
>> service operator should refund you really.
>
> Any suggestions on how one proves this? The onus should be on the operator
> to prove that the subscriber opted in, not the other way around.
>

The operator can prove (by looking at your cdr records) if you sent a txt to
the number to start with, if you did then your liable for the charges. If
you didn't you can get the charges back.
Check that someone else hasn't used your phone to txt the company (one
guys work mates used his to setup some adult chat txt's and by the end of
the day he'd had 20+ an had no credit left. In this case he was liable as
it's your responsibility to take care of your phone).

BTW not all frontline csr's have access to this kind of info, try a billing
csr they should.

Ben wrote:
> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>>>
>>>If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
>>>service operator should refund you really.
>>
>>Any suggestions on how one proves this? The onus should be on the operator
>>to prove that the subscriber opted in, not the other way around.
>>
>
>
> The operator can prove (by looking at your cdr records) if you sent a txt to
> the number to start with, if you did then your liable for the charges. If
> you didn't you can get the charges back.
> Check that someone else hasn't used your phone to txt the company (one
> guys work mates used his to setup some adult chat txt's and by the end of
> the day he'd had 20+ an had no credit left. In this case he was liable as
> it's your responsibility to take care of your phone).
>
> BTW not all frontline csr's have access to this kind of info, try a billing
> csr they should.

But I understand that you can be signed up without ever having sent a
text - ie. someone manually inputting the data (website maybe).

This route wouldn't show on your records, but would still be a valid signup.

D

"David Hearn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ben wrote:
>> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>>>>
>>>>If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
>>>>service operator should refund you really.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions on how one proves this? The onus should be on the
>>>operator to prove that the subscriber opted in, not the other way around.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The operator can prove (by looking at your cdr records) if you sent a txt
>> to the number to start with, if you did then your liable for the charges.
>> If you didn't you can get the charges back.
>> Check that someone else hasn't used your phone to txt the company
>> (one guys work mates used his to setup some adult chat txt's and by the
>> end of the day he'd had 20+ an had no credit left. In this case he was
>> liable as it's your responsibility to take care of your phone).
>>
>> BTW not all frontline csr's have access to this kind of info, try a
>> billing csr they should.
>
> But I understand that you can be signed up without ever having sent a
> text - ie. someone manually inputting the data (website maybe).
>
> This route wouldn't show on your records, but would still be a valid
> signup.
>
The only way you can be setup in a legitimate way is to send a text from
your mobile to an operator.

"David Hearn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[snip]

> But I understand that you can be signed up without ever
> having sent a text - ie. someone manually inputting the data (website
> maybe).
> This route wouldn't show on your records, but would still
> be a valid signup.

Indeed. What happened with me is that someone mistyped a number and put
mine in by mistake.

Ivor

"Ben" <NOSPAM@NO_S_PA_AM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> Also, is there anything that can be done (to get the airtime back).
>>>
>>> If you can prove that you never subscribed to the service then the
>>> service operator should refund you really.
>>
>> Any suggestions on how one proves this? The onus should be on the
>> operator to prove that the subscriber opted in, not the other way around.
>>
>
> The operator can prove (by looking at your cdr records) if you sent a txt
> to the number to start with, if you did then your liable for the charges.
> If you didn't you can get the charges back.
> Check that someone else hasn't used your phone to txt the company (one
> guys work mates used his to setup some adult chat txt's and by the end of
> the day he'd had 20+ an had no credit left. In this case he was liable as
> it's your responsibility to take care of your phone).
>
> BTW not all frontline csr's have access to this kind of info, try a
> billing csr they should.
>
>
>

Except that you could register by Phone or Internet so a CDR record is of NO
use as proof.

Okay, Colin. Okay..

I did key "??" and "I think" as I was unsure.

I will now remove myself from my PC, and give myself a good "telling off",
and write out 100 times "I got it wrong, it is ICSTIS and Ofcom"

However. if we wish to be pedantic, (and corporate image aware) it's
actually ictis (lowercase) ;-)

http://www.icstis.org.uk/

Thanks anyway




"Colin Forrester" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> KevinX wrote:
>
> > IF that doesn't work, contact one of the communications controlling
bodies
> > (ICTAS?? formerley OFTEL (I THINK)
>
> Wrong on both counts - ICSTIS and Ofcom.