Help REQ: Orange CS refusing to register PAYG new owner

A friend of mine was given an Orange PAYG simcard about 3 years ago by an
ex boyfriend, and has used it with lots of top-ups since.

Now trying to upgrade or PAC out of Orange as it is important to keep the
number, called CS who did their best to be unhelpful as the SIM is still
registered in her ex's name and address, and asked impossible to answer
questions such as the IMEI of the phone that was originally used with the
SIM etc. They said they could only speak to her if the registered owner
provided all their details, the IMEI etc, and notified them of the transfer
of ownerhip. She has no way of contacting her ex, and didn't know
where/when it was originally registered, so is currently stuck.

Is there any sensible way to get the SIM correctly registered with Orange
so that the upgrade/PAC can be done? I had a similar situation with
Vodafone a few years ago, but once they understood that the SIM had been
purchased second-hand and that I wanted to re-register it, there was no
problem at all.

I'm sure that it is quite common for PAYGs to be sold on without owner
details being updated, so I'd hope that Orange is normally a bit more
accommodating.

Suggestions etc gratefully appreciated.

NewsWD wrote:
> A friend of mine was given an Orange PAYG simcard about 3 years ago by an
> ex boyfriend, and has used it with lots of top-ups since.
>
> Now trying to upgrade or PAC out of Orange as it is important to keep the
> number, called CS who did their best to be unhelpful as the SIM is still
> registered in her ex's name and address, and asked impossible to answer
> questions such as the IMEI of the phone that was originally used with the
> SIM etc. They said they could only speak to her if the registered owner
> provided all their details, the IMEI etc, and notified them of the transfer
> of ownerhip. She has no way of contacting her ex, and didn't know
> where/when it was originally registered, so is currently stuck.
>
> Is there any sensible way to get the SIM correctly registered with Orange
> so that the upgrade/PAC can be done? I had a similar situation with
> Vodafone a few years ago, but once they understood that the SIM had been
> purchased second-hand and that I wanted to re-register it, there was no
> problem at all.
>
> I'm sure that it is quite common for PAYGs to be sold on without owner
> details being updated, so I'd hope that Orange is normally a bit more
> accommodating.
>
> Suggestions etc gratefully appreciated.

"they have a contract with the original owner legally they have to
follow the agreement - which is posted on the
website-------------------------------------------------------------

"17. assignment of Contract and change of ownership of Device
17.1 your contract is personal to you
Your Contract is personal to you and you may not assign it. However, we
may at our discretion (not to be unreasonably withheld) allow you to:
a) nominate a User other than yourself while you remain primarily liable
to us under your Contract
b) terminate your Contract on short notice if you have transferred title
to your Device to a new customer who has Connected the Device to our
Network.
17.2 We may assign our rights to your Contract only if such assignment
is on terms which are at least as advantageous to you as those set out
in your Contract."

their hands seem to be tied unless the original owner authorises them to
transfer to the new user
Derek

"NewsWD" <news@news.com> wrote in message
news:ds3cdt$vjj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>A friend of mine

Not another one, it's amazing how many people have started using those words
on nearly every post.
what you need to do is find the "ex" and get him/her to transfer the account
to your name as requested by orange. If you think about it, how does orange
know the call is genuine?
Did you phone or did "your friend". I would stay out of it, let "your
friend" speak to the phone company direct or you will only confuse matters!
It's to stop people ringing and having accounts cut off or genuine customers
accounts transferred. At least they have decent security measures in place.

"NewsWD" <news@news.com> wrote in message
news:ds3cdt$vjj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk

> I'm sure that it is quite common for PAYGs to be sold on
> without owner details being updated, so I'd hope that
> Orange is normally a bit more accommodating.

It's not a question of being accommodating, it's security. How does Orange
know the SIM was acquired legitimately..? Would you like it if someone
stole your SIM and got it reassigned to them without your permission..?

> Suggestions etc gratefully appreciated.

Can't be done unless you can quote the user ID and password for the
account.

Ivor

news@news.com declared for all the world to hear...
> Is there any sensible way to get the SIM correctly registered with Orange
> so that the upgrade/PAC can be done?

Only if the registered owner can be found or the password and PIN
recalled.

> Suggestions etc gratefully appreciated.

Give up or trace the ex.
--
Regards
Jon

NewsWD wrote:
> A friend of mine was given an Orange PAYG simcard about 3 years ago by an
> ex boyfriend, and has used it with lots of top-ups since.
>
> Now trying to upgrade or PAC out of Orange as it is important to keep the
> number, called CS who did their best to be unhelpful as the SIM is still
> registered in her ex's name and address, and asked impossible to answer
> questions such as the IMEI of the phone that was originally used with the
> SIM etc. They said they could only speak to her if the registered owner
> provided all their details, the IMEI etc, and notified them of the transfer
> of ownerhip. She has no way of contacting her ex, and didn't know
> where/when it was originally registered, so is currently stuck.
>
> Is there any sensible way to get the SIM correctly registered with Orange
> so that the upgrade/PAC can be done? I had a similar situation with
> Vodafone a few years ago, but once they understood that the SIM had been
> purchased second-hand and that I wanted to re-register it, there was no
> problem at all.
>
> I'm sure that it is quite common for PAYGs to be sold on without owner
> details being updated, so I'd hope that Orange is normally a bit more
> accommodating.
>
> Suggestions etc gratefully appreciated.
Interesting!

I just bought a used Orange PAYG phone, including SIM card, of eBay that
came with £6 credit on the SIM. Granted the seller did also send me the
e-topup card, but I just phoned OCS told them I had just bought a second
hand PAYG phone and they transfered the phone and SIM registration to
me! Simply as that. They did ask for the four digit PIN for the SIM card
but I just told them I did not know it and gave them the ecard number
and that was OK !!!
So security not that great this time !

DeeBee

"bill" <bill2@totalinternat.co.uk> wrote in
news:vUaFf.2041$Z7.1781@newsfe3-win.ntli.net:

>
> "NewsWD" <news@news.com> wrote in message
> news:ds3cdt$vjj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>A friend of mine
>
> Not another one, it's amazing how many people have started using those
> words on nearly every post.
> what you need to do is find the "ex" and get him/her to transfer the
> account to your name as requested by orange. If you think about it,
> how does orange know the call is genuine?
> Did you phone or did "your friend". I would stay out of it, let "your
> friend" speak to the phone company direct or you will only confuse
> matters! It's to stop people ringing and having accounts cut off or
> genuine customers accounts transferred. At least they have decent
> security measures in place.
>
>

I have stayed out of it, simply asking for advice I can pass on :-)
Contacting the ex hasn't been possible (people move, lost contact and so
on).

I understand the security issues and don't have a problem with them, but
the fact she has been happily spending £200+ per year on top-ups for at
least three years should count for something, after all the phone hasn't
been reported lost or stolen!

All I am asking is that there *should* be some way of correctly registering
the phone, even if Orange would contact the registered owner themselves to
verify the change of ownership would be a help. The best approach to
resolve the problem is what I am hoping for, not trying to beat the system
or anything controversial!

DeeBee <deebee21@geemail.con> wrote in news:PxkFf.263964$D47.151235
@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

> Interesting!
>
> I just bought a used Orange PAYG phone, including SIM card, of eBay that
> came with œ6 credit on the SIM. Granted the seller did also send me the
> e-topup card, but I just phoned OCS told them I had just bought a second
> hand PAYG phone and they transfered the phone and SIM registration to
> me! Simply as that. They did ask for the four digit PIN for the SIM card
> but I just told them I did not know it and gave them the ecard number
> and that was OK !!!
> So security not that great this time !
>
> DeeBee
>

Thankyou. I think she has had the same ecard for a couple of years and can
give IMEIs for the last two years if absolutely necessary so I'll suggest
this.

NewsWD wrote:
> "bill" <bill2@totalinternat.co.uk> wrote in
> news:vUaFf.2041$Z7.1781@newsfe3-win.ntli.net:
>
>
>>"NewsWD" <news@news.com> wrote in message
>>news:ds3cdt$vjj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>>>A friend of mine
>>
>>Not another one, it's amazing how many people have started using those
>>words on nearly every post.
>>what you need to do is find the "ex" and get him/her to transfer the
>>account to your name as requested by orange. If you think about it,
>>how does orange know the call is genuine?
>>Did you phone or did "your friend". I would stay out of it, let "your
>>friend" speak to the phone company direct or you will only confuse
>>matters! It's to stop people ringing and having accounts cut off or
>>genuine customers accounts transferred. At least they have decent
>>security measures in place.
>>
>>
>
>
> I have stayed out of it, simply asking for advice I can pass on :-)
> Contacting the ex hasn't been possible (people move, lost contact and so
> on).
>
> I understand the security issues and don't have a problem with them, but
> the fact she has been happily spending £200+ per year on top-ups for at
> least three years should count for something, after all the phone hasn't
> been reported lost or stolen!
>
> All I am asking is that there *should* be some way of correctly registering
> the phone, even if Orange would contact the registered owner themselves to
> verify the change of ownership would be a help. The best approach to
> resolve the problem is what I am hoping for, not trying to beat the system
> or anything controversial!

Picture this scenario. An employer has a PAYG SIM card used for
receiving out of hours IT support - known number throughout the company.
Head of IT has this SIM in his mobile for the last 5 years. He's used
it personally, and topped it up as he's needed (lets say over £200 per
year). Basically, he just pays for the outgoing calls - which were
personal.

After 5 years, he leaves the company and tries to get the number
transferred out as all his mates know it and used to call him on it.
However, his employer is the registered owner of the SIM and rightly
expects the number to be returned for the new guy to use (and to keep
continuity by keeping the same number).

Financial records would show that the employee was the one topping it up
etc. If whoever topped it up was allowed to transfer the number out
etc, then there could be problems.

Orange's rule is the account holder MUST be present on the call to
transfer the number or so other account related operations. If the
account owner cannot be contacted, I believe you have NO chance of
getting the number ported. Other networks you might have a chance, but
Orange are strict. No account holder, no access.

D

"David Hearn" <dave@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ds5k7i$kr6$1@slavica.ukpost.com

[snip]

> Orange's rule is the account holder MUST be present on
> the call to transfer the number or so other account
> related operations. If the account owner cannot be
> contacted, I believe you have NO chance of getting the
> number ported. Other networks you might have a chance,
> but Orange are strict. No account holder, no access.

Not strictly true. They will allow it if the caller can quote the password
and PIN of the account correctly. It is preferable for both people to be
present, though.

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "David Hearn" <dave@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:ds5k7i$kr6$1@slavica.ukpost.com
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>Orange's rule is the account holder MUST be present on
>>the call to transfer the number or so other account
>>related operations. If the account owner cannot be
>>contacted, I believe you have NO chance of getting the
>>number ported. Other networks you might have a chance,
>>but Orange are strict. No account holder, no access.
>
>
> Not strictly true. They will allow it if the caller can quote the password
> and PIN of the account correctly. It is preferable for both people to be
> present, though.
>
> Ivor

Okay - I stand (or sit!) corrected there.

D