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  1. #31
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded
    >> the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to
    >> switch hours, people aren't going to be able to change the times,
    >> the only way is by enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST.

    >
    > What? If we switched to CET then kids will go to school in the dark.
    > It'll still be dark at 8.30am in virtually the whole country in
    > December. At the moment it is daylight in most parts of the country
    > when kids go to and leave school.



    Kids normally go to school pretty quickly no messing around in the
    morning, when they come home from school they dawdle.




    See More: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back




  2. #32
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back



    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    > > "Bert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > > It's just that many of us would like it to get dark at
    > > > 4:30pm instead of 3:30pm on the shorter days and at
    > > > 6:00pm instead of 5:00pm on the run up and run down as
    > > > this would at least give the illusion of more day
    > > > light.

    > >
    > > So get up earlier instead of sleeping the daylight
    > > away..!
    > > > In the morning, dark is dark is dark is dark and it
    > > > matters not one jot as most kids get driven to school
    > > > these days and few of us have cows we have to get up
    > > > and milk.

    > >
    > > Like I said, get up earlier and start work/school at 8
    > > instead of 9. Then when you finish it will still be
    > > light.

    >
    > All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone
    > demanded the school to open an hour earlier and the
    > teachers also wanting to switch hours, people aren't
    > going to be able to change the times, the only way is by
    > enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST.


    You don't get what I'm saying, do you..? Who tells us to change the clocks
    twice a year..? Who issues the instruction ..? The government, right..? So
    instead of telling people to change the settings on physical devices, tell
    them to change their hours of work by an hour. Same result, less hassle
    with clocks..!

    > > What do you think people did before clocks..?!

    >
    > Is of no importance to todays society.


    But it has relevance.

    > > > And an extra hour of light in the evening in the
    > > > summer would be pretty cool too!

    > >
    > > So don't sleep it away in the morning..!
    > >

    >
    > All well and good getting up an hour earlier when our
    > clock haven't changed, as everything else will still be
    > running on the current time, so may not be open an hour
    > earlier.


    No they won't..!! This is the whole point..! If *everyone* changed their
    hours at the same time of year instead of changing their clocks, the end
    result would be the same, but with less hassle of mucking about with
    timepieces.

    > Come on, you don't normally spout nonsense.


    Read it again, it's no more nonsense than buggering about with clocks.

    Ivor





  3. #33
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back



    "Bohica" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > What none of them seem to have the brain cells to work
    > > out is that the number of hours of available daylight
    > > in any given day has bugger all to do with what a clock
    > > says..! They lie in bed for an extra hour, sleeping the
    > > daylight away, then complain that little Johnny has to
    > > walk home from school in the dark. Why don't people just get up an
    > > hour earlier and go to
    > > bed an hour earlier, start work/school etc. at 8
    > > instead of 9 etc., problem solved.

    >
    > If lessons don't start until 9am and then the child wants
    > to leave at 2pm instead of 3pm, I'm sure the local
    > authority education police might have something to say
    > about it.


    So start lessons at 8, that's my whole point.

    > However, not really an issue in most of the schools in my
    > area, because the majority start at 8.20am and finish
    > around 2.30pm. Teachers must love only having to work
    > half days.


    They do anyway, don't they..?! <g>

    Ivor





  4. #34
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back



    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    > > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    > > wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > > I want the extra hour an the evening not in the
    > > > morning, which was what I said, I fully understand
    > > > the amount of light in any 23hr 56 minutes will be
    > > > the same whether our clocks are on GMT,BST, CET or
    > > > CEST. That's not the point, because we live our time
    > > > around a clock I'd rather have the clocks moved to
    > > > provider more light at night than in the morning.

    > >
    > > So change working hours not clocks.
    > >

    >
    > I can't, that my hours for my Job, it's not one or two
    > weeks at those hours, it's every week of the year.


    But your job terms can be changed so that you work 8 to 4 in the winter
    instead of 9 to 5.

    > > > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there,
    > > > > but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed.
    > > > > Get up earlier and go to bed earlier; start
    > > > > school/work at 8 instead of 9 or whatever it is.
    > > > > Problem solved.
    > > >
    > > > I come in from work at 05:00 during the summer this is
    > > > light, during the winter it is dark, so to me moving
    > > > the clocks forward and hour will have little affect
    > > > on my coming home from work.

    > >
    > > I work shifts as well, but I don't see the difference
    > > between working 8 to 4 instead of 9 to 5. It's not that
    > > great a leap, surely..?

    >
    > But I have to work 21:00 - 05:00. That's my job.


    So your hours are changed from 2000 - 0400.

    > The
    > computers I have to work on are already listed by my
    > manager who works 09:00 - 17:00, but even if I was to
    > turn up at 20:00 I can't swipe out until 04:45 at the
    > earliest and security are told not to allow anyone off
    > site until 04:45 at the earliest.


    Computers can be reprogrammed.

    > We get paid for
    > working extra hours past our usual hours, but not for
    > hours before, so even if I worked for two hours before
    > 21:00 I wouldn't be paid for them, and even if I finished
    > at 03:00 I'd have to stay until 05:00. Sometimes when the
    > swipe machine stops working and you have good security on
    > you can leave early, but you don't know before hand if
    > the machines are going to be faulty.


    So your contract could be changed so that the hours listed for your work
    are 1 hour earlier in the winter.


    > Yes, one hour difference isn't much of a difference but
    > for most people work won't allow then to alter their work
    > pattern by one hour, all well and good saying work from
    > 08:00 until 16:00 but pointless when work only allows you
    > to work 09:00 - 17:00
    > > > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks
    > > > > were invented..? They got up when the sun rose and
    > > > > went to bed when it set.
    > > >
    > > > But clocks have been invented, and one or two people
    > > > aren't going to be able to change their working
    > > > pattern, maybe for those who have flex-time maybe, bt
    > > > for those in a 09:00 - 17:00 job, I'm sure their boss
    > > > is going to be happy if the come in at a different
    > > > time, the place may not even be open.

    > >
    > > So change working hours.

    >
    > Pointless remark, if your place of work only allows you
    > to work 09:00 - 17:00 you ain't going to be able to work
    > 08:00 - 16:00


    Your workplace wouldn't have a choice. It would be imposed by government
    in the same way you are told you must change your clocks.

    > > > Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids
    > > > to turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on
    > > > keep it real!

    > >
    > > It is real. Instead of the government saying change the
    > > clocks twice a year, they could just say change working
    > > hours instead.
    > > >
    > > > That is just a crazy thing to say, and pointless
    > > > thing to say.

    > >
    > > It's no crazier than adjusting every clock in the
    > > country twice a year.

    >
    > The rest of Europe change their clocks at the same time
    > also, so it's not just this country that is crazy.


    They don't have to any more than we have to.

    > Yes it would be nice for people to be able to alter their
    > hours, but that's not going to happen, so changing the
    > clocks is the best method.


    I don't agree.

    > Can you really see a business for example advertising
    > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00,
    > maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe 17:00
    > all depends on when workers come in to work.
    > There does need to be some set hours of business for many
    > businesses if they can't run 24/7.


    So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the winter.

    Ivor






  5. #35
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    [snip]

    > Easier for the clock to be changed than getting all
    > businesses and schools to change hours.


    Not at all. Easier in fact as no clocks have to be changed.

    Ivor





  6. #36
    SteveH
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Can you really see a business for example advertising
    > > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00,
    > > maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe 17:00
    > > all depends on when workers come in to work.
    > > There does need to be some set hours of business for many
    > > businesses if they can't run 24/7.

    >
    > So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the winter.


    How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time?

    Just because you have a job that makes it a PITA doesn't mean it would
    be easier / better for 99% of the population to change working hours.
    --
    SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
    www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
    Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
    BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #



  7. #37
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back


    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded
    > >> the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to
    > >> switch hours, people aren't going to be able to change the times,
    > >> the only way is by enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST.

    > >
    > > What? If we switched to CET then kids will go to school in the dark.
    > > It'll still be dark at 8.30am in virtually the whole country in
    > > December. At the moment it is daylight in most parts of the country
    > > when kids go to and leave school.

    >
    >
    > Kids normally go to school pretty quickly no messing around in the
    > morning, when they come home from school they dawdle.


    So what's your point? I'd rather my kids went both ways in daylight, as they do now,
    whether they dawdle or not.

    They leave at 8.30am, they are back at 3.50pm. It's daylight throught the year in
    most parts of the country between those times. It wouldn't be if we switched to CET.

    --
    Andy





  8. #38
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back



    "SteveH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1hnxrcv.1ctks1l583k8mN%[email protected]
    > Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > > Can you really see a business for example advertising
    > > > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00,
    > > > maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe
    > > > 17:00 all depends on when workers come in to work.
    > > > There does need to be some set hours of business for
    > > > many businesses if they can't run 24/7.

    > >
    > > So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the
    > > winter.

    >
    > How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time?
    >
    > Just because you have a job that makes it a PITA doesn't
    > mean it would be easier / better for 99% of the
    > population to change working hours.


    Why is it difficult..? Just set the alarm an hour earlier. It's no
    different to working shifts.

    Ivor





  9. #39
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    > wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    >>> "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    >>> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>> I want the extra hour an the evening not in the
    >>>> morning, which was what I said, I fully understand
    >>>> the amount of light in any 23hr 56 minutes will be
    >>>> the same whether our clocks are on GMT,BST, CET or
    >>>> CEST. That's not the point, because we live our time
    >>>> around a clock I'd rather have the clocks moved to
    >>>> provider more light at night than in the morning.
    >>>
    >>> So change working hours not clocks.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I can't, that my hours for my Job, it's not one or two
    >> weeks at those hours, it's every week of the year.

    >
    > But your job terms can be changed so that you work 8 to 4 in the
    > winter instead of 9 to 5.


    But they won't, as much as I'd may like them to, they ain't going to
    change.

    Even if all us workers decided we wanted them to change the hours, they
    aren't going to those are the hours and they ain't changing.

    >
    >>>>> That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there,
    >>>>> but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed.
    >>>>> Get up earlier and go to bed earlier; start
    >>>>> school/work at 8 instead of 9 or whatever it is.
    >>>>> Problem solved.
    >>>>
    >>>> I come in from work at 05:00 during the summer this is
    >>>> light, during the winter it is dark, so to me moving
    >>>> the clocks forward and hour will have little affect
    >>>> on my coming home from work.
    >>>
    >>> I work shifts as well, but I don't see the difference
    >>> between working 8 to 4 instead of 9 to 5. It's not that
    >>> great a leap, surely..?

    >>
    >> But I have to work 21:00 - 05:00. That's my job.

    >
    > So your hours are changed from 2000 - 0400.
    >
    >> The
    >> computers I have to work on are already listed by my
    >> manager who works 09:00 - 17:00, but even if I was to
    >> turn up at 20:00 I can't swipe out until 04:45 at the
    >> earliest and security are told not to allow anyone off
    >> site until 04:45 at the earliest.

    >
    > Computers can be reprogrammed.
    >


    Yes they can, but they has nothing to do with the place I work changing
    their working hours.

    >> We get paid for
    >> working extra hours past our usual hours, but not for
    >> hours before, so even if I worked for two hours before
    >> 21:00 I wouldn't be paid for them, and even if I finished
    >> at 03:00 I'd have to stay until 05:00. Sometimes when the
    >> swipe machine stops working and you have good security on
    >> you can leave early, but you don't know before hand if
    >> the machines are going to be faulty.

    >
    > So your contract could be changed so that the hours listed for your
    > work are 1 hour earlier in the winter.
    >


    But that ain't goint to happen!

    >
    >> Yes, one hour difference isn't much of a difference but
    >> for most people work won't allow then to alter their work
    >> pattern by one hour, all well and good saying work from
    >> 08:00 until 16:00 but pointless when work only allows you
    >> to work 09:00 - 17:00
    >>>>> Think about it; what did people do before clocks
    >>>>> were invented..? They got up when the sun rose and
    >>>>> went to bed when it set.
    >>>>
    >>>> But clocks have been invented, and one or two people
    >>>> aren't going to be able to change their working
    >>>> pattern, maybe for those who have flex-time maybe, bt
    >>>> for those in a 09:00 - 17:00 job, I'm sure their boss
    >>>> is going to be happy if the come in at a different
    >>>> time, the place may not even be open.
    >>>
    >>> So change working hours.

    >>
    >> Pointless remark, if your place of work only allows you
    >> to work 09:00 - 17:00 you ain't going to be able to work
    >> 08:00 - 16:00

    >
    > Your workplace wouldn't have a choice. It would be imposed by
    > government in the same way you are told you must change your clocks.
    >
    >>>> Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids
    >>>> to turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on
    >>>> keep it real!
    >>>
    >>> It is real. Instead of the government saying change the
    >>> clocks twice a year, they could just say change working
    >>> hours instead.
    >>>>
    >>>> That is just a crazy thing to say, and pointless
    >>>> thing to say.
    >>>
    >>> It's no crazier than adjusting every clock in the
    >>> country twice a year.

    >>
    >> The rest of Europe change their clocks at the same time
    >> also, so it's not just this country that is crazy.

    >
    > They don't have to any more than we have to.
    >
    >> Yes it would be nice for people to be able to alter their
    >> hours, but that's not going to happen, so changing the
    >> clocks is the best method.

    >
    > I don't agree.
    >
    >> Can you really see a business for example advertising
    >> their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00,
    >> maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe 17:00
    >> all depends on when workers come in to work.
    >> There does need to be some set hours of business for many
    >> businesses if they can't run 24/7.

    >
    > So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the winter.
    >
    > Ivor






  10. #40
    SteveH
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    Ivor Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time?
    > >
    > > Just because you have a job that makes it a PITA doesn't
    > > mean it would be easier / better for 99% of the
    > > population to change working hours.

    >
    > Why is it difficult..? Just set the alarm an hour earlier. It's no
    > different to working shifts.


    It's not that simple, is it?

    All shops would have to change the opening hours signs, websites would
    also have to be changed to reflect the 'winter' opening hours, bus /
    train timetables would have to be reprinted with summer and winter hours
    etc.

    Changing the time on clocks is much easier.
    --
    SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
    www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
    Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
    BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #



  11. #41
    SteveH
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    Pun Krocker <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote :
    > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there
    > > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end
    > > of the day you lose at the other.

    >
    > Up north, it helps as it would be dark until 9:00am if they did not
    > change. But don't let facts get in the way of childrens safety


    'Won't someone *please* think of the childrun'
    --
    SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
    www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
    Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
    BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #



  12. #42
    Matt Wheeler
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back


    "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
    > wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    >> > "Bert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> > news:[email protected]
    >> >
    >> > [snip]
    >> >
    >> > > It's just that many of us would like it to get dark at
    >> > > 4:30pm instead of 3:30pm on the shorter days and at
    >> > > 6:00pm instead of 5:00pm on the run up and run down as
    >> > > this would at least give the illusion of more day
    >> > > light.
    >> >
    >> > So get up earlier instead of sleeping the daylight
    >> > away..!
    >> > > In the morning, dark is dark is dark is dark and it
    >> > > matters not one jot as most kids get driven to school
    >> > > these days and few of us have cows we have to get up
    >> > > and milk.
    >> >
    >> > Like I said, get up earlier and start work/school at 8
    >> > instead of 9. Then when you finish it will still be
    >> > light.

    >>
    >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone
    >> demanded the school to open an hour earlier and the
    >> teachers also wanting to switch hours, people aren't
    >> going to be able to change the times, the only way is by
    >> enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST.

    >
    > You don't get what I'm saying, do you..? Who tells us to change the
    > clocks twice a year..? Who issues the instruction ..? The
    > government, right..? So instead of telling people to change the
    > settings on physical devices, tell them to change their hours of
    > work by an hour. Same result, less hassle with clocks..!
    >


    Surely, though, the current system would be cheaper.... on your
    proprosed system, bus, coach and train companies would have to
    re-issue timetables twice a year to account for hour shift of the
    morning/evening peak periods. Even then, I don't think the governemt
    has any right to dictate opening hours of shops/offices etc apart from
    Schools, and (possibly) some other local government services, whether
    it be directly or via local government. Even so, I suspect there
    would be much simplification in this, instead of opening an hour
    earler in winter, I suspect many shops/offices would still open at the
    same time (eg 9am) and then close at the same time... so what does
    that get you ?
    Anyway, shouldn't your suggestion be the other way around.... ie we
    keep GMT all year long (ie no switch to BST in March), and then just
    tell people to go to school/work 1 hour later April to October.



    >> > What do you think people did before clocks..?!

    >>
    >> Is of no importance to todays society.

    >
    > But it has relevance.
    >
    >> > > And an extra hour of light in the evening in the
    >> > > summer would be pretty cool too!
    >> >
    >> > So don't sleep it away in the morning..!
    >> >

    >>
    >> All well and good getting up an hour earlier when our
    >> clock haven't changed, as everything else will still be
    >> running on the current time, so may not be open an hour
    >> earlier.

    >
    > No they won't..!! This is the whole point..! If *everyone* changed
    > their hours at the same time of year instead of changing their
    > clocks, the end result would be the same, but with less hassle of
    > mucking about with timepieces.
    >


    But they wouldn't, and who would make them do it anyway.
    It may well just be a psychological thing, but going to work at 8am
    feels alot better than going to work at 7am regardless of whether the
    clocks change or not, and I suspect many workers (where possible)
    would probably want to keep the same "hours" without having to shift 1
    way or the other... at least with an actual clock change, going to
    work at 8 feels the same in both summer and winter.





  13. #43
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back


    "Pun Krocker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote :
    > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there
    > > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end
    > > of the day you lose at the other.

    >
    > Up north, it helps as it would be dark until 9:00am if they did not
    > change. But don't let facts get in the way of childrens safety


    The change is to give extra daylight *in the summer*, if they didn't change it would
    just get darker earlier in the summer. Winter would stay the same.

    --
    Andy






  14. #44
    John
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    In article <[email protected]>, Phaeton <[email protected]>
    writes
    >They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's
    >voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let
    >them have their own timezone if they wanted.


    What has this comment to do with the subject of this thread. Keep your
    prejudices off public forums where they are not relevant.
    --
    Hugh Janus Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits
    for no man!!



  15. #45
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back

    "Matt Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]

    [snip]

    > Anyway, shouldn't your suggestion be the other way
    > around.... ie we keep GMT all year long (ie no switch to
    > BST in March), and then just tell people to go to
    > school/work 1 hour later April to October.


    Actually that's exactly what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear.

    It can work, Arizona in the US for example don't observe daylight savings
    time. Although it can prove a little troublesome if you live on one side
    of the state line where they don't change the clocks but work on the other
    side where they do ;-)

    > > No they won't..!! This is the whole point..! If
    > > *everyone* changed their hours at the same time of year
    > > instead of changing their clocks, the end result would
    > > be the same, but with less hassle of mucking about with
    > > timepieces.

    >
    > But they wouldn't, and who would make them do it anyway.


    Who makes them change the clocks..?

    Ivor






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