999/112 Urban myth?

"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a
> technical level confirm which of the following is correct.
>
> To start with, I have always understood that:
> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical

Yes.

> b) your phone will use any available network,
> irrespective of SIM or network locking

No.

> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your
> network, but 112 uses any.

No.

> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a
> lot of "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less
> phones for emergency calls and they advertise use of 999.

No SIM, no call.

> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?

Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise, if it has a valid,
working SIM. End of story.

Ivor

---

› See More: 999/112 Urban myth?

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:55:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a
>> technical level confirm which of the following is correct.
>>
>> To start with, I have always understood that:
>> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
>
>Yes.
>
>> b) your phone will use any available network,
>> irrespective of SIM or network locking
>
>No.
>
>> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your
>> network, but 112 uses any.
>
>No.
>
>> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a
>> lot of "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less
>> phones for emergency calls and they advertise use of 999.
>
>No SIM, no call.
>
>> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
>
>Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise, if it has a valid,
>working SIM. End of story.
>
>Ivor
>



well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
a SIM in ?
--

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

[email protected] [Rot 13 it]

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:07:18 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> a SIM in ?
>
>Because in some jurisdictions you can.

But I'm in Wales
--

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop

[email protected] [Rot 13 it]

>> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without any SIM
>> installed.
>
> Indeed. However in the UK the call will not connect.
>
> Try it. And when you have done, post back here.
> --
> Regards
> Jon

I was discussing this very question with a friend the other day, and we had
both always assumed that a phone WITH a SIM, but not in range of its own
network, would be able to roam for the purposes of making an emergency call.
It is after all part of the GSM spec.

I was in a position to try it recently, and as Jon says could not place the
call - the UK networks have clearly not implemented this. I wonder how many
people have died as a result of this policy / assumption?

Benedict.

"Usenet User" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> mobiles? Or before that without phones!
More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of things
that are now curable by medicines.

IMO the previous posters question stands.

"Usenet User" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7 Mar, 12:27, Phil<[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Usenet User" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
>> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
>> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
>>
>> More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of
>> things
>> that are now curable by medicines.
>>
>> IMO the previous posters question stands.
>
> The risk obviously isn't large enough for Ofcom to intervene -- and
> that's probably because there is so little difference in the coverage
> of the mobile networks.

Most likely. Would only really be a benefit in countries where there are
several regional operators, rather than a handful of operators with national
coverage.

"Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> "Usenet User" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 7 Mar, 12:27, Phil<[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Usenet User" <[email protected]> writes:
> >>
> >> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> >> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> >> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
> >>
> >> More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of
> >> things
> >> that are now curable by medicines.
> >>
> >> IMO the previous posters question stands.
> >
> > The risk obviously isn't large enough for Ofcom to intervene -- and
> > that's probably because there is so little difference in the coverage
> > of the mobile networks.
>
> Most likely. Would only really be a benefit in countries where there are
> several regional operators, rather than a handful of operators with national
> coverage.

I suspect there are large areas of the highlands where that are not covered by
all 4 networks.

Phil wrote:
>
>
> I suspect there are large areas of the highlands where that are not covered by
> all 4 networks.
>
From personal experience, I know this to be true - although it has
improved somewhat over the past few years.

"BORG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:55:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

> > Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise,
> > if it has a valid, working SIM. End of story.
>
> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I
> start it without a SIM in ?

Because the ability to make emergency calls without a SIM is part of the
GSM spec. However no UK network has chosen to implement it.

Ivor

BORG wrote:

> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
> a SIM in ?

That's the phone talking, however no network will accept an emergency
call from a simless phone, because apart from anything else they have no
way to call back if the call drops.

Denis McMahon

BORG wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:07:18 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> a SIM in ?
>>
>> Because in some jurisdictions you can.
>
> But I'm in Wales

But the phone software is generic and instead of displaying 'no signal'
or 'No Network' that make / model has 'Emergency calls only' displayed,
because GSM standard does allow you to make emergency calls without a
sim and on another home network when out of coverage, however in the UK
they stopped allowing SIM-less phones making emergency calls and they
have never allowed home roaming for emergency calls. (Three however
does roam on another network when not in 3 coverage, so you can make
calls there, but if out of coverave for both, then again, no calls).

Denis McMahon wrote:
> BORG wrote:
>
>> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
>> a SIM in ?
>
> That's the phone talking, however no network will accept an emergency
> call from a simless phone, because apart from anything else they have no
> way to call back if the call drops.

Or any idea of who the 'subscriber' is if they start making lots of
prank calls.

D

Many thanks for the clarification and information, on what's turned
into a longer thread than intended!

So to summarise.

a) You need a valid SIM for a 999/112 call.
b) It will only use the SIM's network, even if it is out of range and
another is available.


Jim

Benedict Addis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without any SIM
>>> installed.
>>
>> Indeed. However in the UK the call will not connect.
>>
>> Try it. And when you have done, post back here.

> I was discussing this very question with a friend the other day, and we had
> both always assumed that a phone WITH a SIM, but not in range of its own
> network, would be able to roam for the purposes of making an emergency call.
> It is after all part of the GSM spec.

> I was in a position to try it recently, and as Jon says could not place the
> call - the UK networks have clearly not implemented this. I wonder how many
> people have died as a result of this policy / assumption?

A friend of mine got lost in the Cairngorms in bad weather. He had his
emergency mobile with him, but had forgotten to check its state of
charge. The phone was dead and as a result he nearly died.

Very dangerous stuff this modern technology.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Usenet User" <[email protected]>typed


> I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> mobiles? Or before that without phones!

One little old lady in this area burned to death in her home a few
months ago. She had one of those 'care line' alarms round her neck.
Unfortunately, the careline people did not pass on a message that her
relatives were away on holiday so tried in vain to contact those
relatives. By the time they'd contacted anyone useful, her house had
burned down.

If she'd had a simple mobile phone round her neck instead, she might
have had a chance of survival.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.