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- 06-23-2007, 04:55 AM #1MartinGuest
I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
My Orange bill has this entry dated 21/05/07 :-
Number: 78181
Place called: Multimedia Service Recd
Call class: text
Duration: 0:0:00
Cost: £1.280 (ex VAT, = £1.50 inc VAT)
78181 isn't listed on Grumbletext, but ICSTIS shows 78181 as:
Tanla Mobile Ltd
0871 240 3500
The handset which was billed is used for remote server access. It's in a
locked room to which only I have access. The handset security options
are set up so that it can only receive incoming data calls with a
specific CLI. So it could not have sent a text message to 78181 (as it
cannot make outgoing calls or send outgoing texts).
Over the last few months, the handset has received half a dozen
unsolicited SMS messages, one of which was from 78181:
From: 78181
Shop at major retailers at www.prizedonkey.com and earn cashback,
refer friends and earn more. Passcode .[(that field is blank)]. For
help call 0871 310 8340. 10p per Min.
Looking at www.prizedonkey.com, they claim to be:
Fantastic 4 Mobile Limited
PO box 892
Girne
Mersin 10
Turkey
But WHOIS shows the following (which of course may be fictitious, or may
relate to an entirely innocent third party):
rasim ozrasim (PRIZEDONKEY-COM-DOM)
cream bar grill
56 belediye otopark
kyrenia, CY ky1
CY
+9053386[XXXXX]
rasim2001 [AT] hotmail.com
while the web server appears to be hosted by Everyone's Internet in Texas.
www.prizedonkey.com has a form where the punter enters a mobile number
to receive a passcode. Supposedly, you are not billed the £1.50 unless
you text the passcode back to them. They then ask that you "Register
with your accurate contact info (such as email & postal address) if
requested so we know where to send your redeemed voucher(s)". Yeah. Right.
Shouldn't the Orange billing system check that I'd sent a text to 78181
before passing on the charge of £1.50? Otherwise, how are massive SMS
frauds to be avoided? The fee is low enough that disputing it is likely
to cost me more than it would recover, so it seems like the perfect
crime (although it's always possible that it's a genuine mistake on this
occasion).
Just how widespread is SMS fraud in the UK? It sounds like a license to
print money!
Thanks for any pointers.
- Martin.
› See More: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
- 06-23-2007, 07:31 AM #2Chuckles The Scary ClownGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
> would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
>
>
> Just how widespread is SMS fraud in the UK? It sounds like a license to
> print money!
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
>
> - Martin.
>
It is phenomenally widespread; Orange, for whatever reason, appear to be
quite complicit in these scams and unless you escalate a complaint to their
Customer Services Director at a very early stage then you'll get nowhere.
- 06-23-2007, 07:38 AM #3Allan GouldGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
Martin wrote:
> I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
> would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
Not that it's much use now, but:
a) register the number with the TPS (but UK only)
b) if Orange can't do it, move to a telco that will allow you to block
incoming premium SMS (T-Mobile seem to have this functionality)
- 06-23-2007, 08:32 AM #4MartinGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
Allan Gould wrote:
> Martin wrote:
>> I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
>> would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
>
> Not that it's much use now, but:
> a) register the number with the TPS (but UK only)
Yes - did that ages ago - but the spammers don't seem to respect it.
> b) if Orange can't do it, move to a telco that will allow you to block
> incoming premium SMS (T-Mobile seem to have this functionality)
Just spoke to a woman at Orange Customer Services, who refunded the
charge after some discussion. However, it was the potential for far
larger losses that concerned me. She was unable to place a bar on my
account to block premium rate text services. She did place a bar on
premium rate calls, but she warned me that this would not stop premium
text services.
She suggested that I text STOP ALL to the short code number on the bill.
I replied that since they'd already charged me £1.50 for one
unsolicited text, I didn't trust them to respect a STOP ALL message: if
they really were offshore fraudsters, then a STOP ALL message would
merely confirm that my number was live, possibly resulting in a flood of
chargeable messages.
The handset is unlocked, so I will seriously consider moving to
T-Mobile. It will be a shame to close my Orange OVP Virgin account
though, as it's a tariff you can't get any more. I might try writing to
the Orange Customer Services Director first - though I don't know which
office such correspondence should go to.
Thanks!!
- Martin.
- 06-25-2007, 02:48 AM #5JonGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> The handset is unlocked, so I will seriously consider moving to
> T-Mobile. It will be a shame to close my Orange OVP Virgin account
> though, as it's a tariff you can't get any more. I might try writing to
> the Orange Customer Services Director first - though I don't know which
> office such correspondence should go to.
The paddington office would be the best one to go for, of all the
offices in the UK that's where the big boys and girls spend most of
their time when not travelling.
--
Regards
Jon
- 06-25-2007, 01:12 PM #6Guest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
On Jun 25, 9:48 am, Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The paddington office would be the best one to go for, of all the
> offices in the UK that's where the big boys and girls spend most of
> their time when not travelling.
> --
> Regards
> Jon
email them at
[email protected]
That will get straight to the right people.
- 06-26-2007, 04:53 PM #7--martin--Guest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
Neil wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:32:48 +0100, Martin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Allan Gould wrote:
>>> Martin wrote:
>>>> I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
>>>> would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
>>> Not that it's much use now, but:
>>> a) register the number with the TPS (but UK only)
>> Yes - did that ages ago - but the spammers don't seem to respect it.
>>
>>> b) if Orange can't do it, move to a telco that will allow you to block
>>> incoming premium SMS (T-Mobile seem to have this functionality)
>> Just spoke to a woman at Orange Customer Services, who refunded the
>> charge after some discussion. However, it was the potential for far
>> larger losses that concerned me. She was unable to place a bar on my
>> account to block premium rate text services. She did place a bar on
>> premium rate calls, but she warned me that this would not stop premium
>> text services.
>>
>> She suggested that I text STOP ALL to the short code number on the bill.
>> I replied that since they'd already charged me £1.50 for one
>> unsolicited text, I didn't trust them to respect a STOP ALL message: if
>> they really were offshore fraudsters, then a STOP ALL message would
>> merely confirm that my number was live, possibly resulting in a flood of
>> chargeable messages.
>>
>> The handset is unlocked, so I will seriously consider moving to
>> T-Mobile. It will be a shame to close my Orange OVP Virgin account
>> though, as it's a tariff you can't get any more. I might try writing to
>> the Orange Customer Services Director first - though I don't know which
>> office such correspondence should go to.
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> - Martin.
>
> Don't take it lying down - make a fuss like I did with O2.
>
> I queried a £1.50 charge on my bill with customer services. They said
> I should text STOP back. I said NO WAY am I paying to stop something
> I didn't request. I told them to check my records for proof that I'd
> done anything to request a premium rate text, and added that without
> that proof, they were complicit in fraud.
>
> I got a refund immediately, and oddly enough have not received the
> like ever since.
I'll be looking for an assurance that it *is* possible to disable all
premium text services, otherwise I'll be off elsewhere. I'll post back
here if I get any useful response back.
Thanks for the info, everyone...
- Martin
- 07-07-2007, 11:55 AM #8Guest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
On Jun 26, 9:02 pm, Neil <[email protected]> wrote:
> Don't take it lying down - make a fuss like I did with O2.
>
> I queried a £1.50 charge on my bill with customer services. They said
> I should text STOP back. I said NO WAY am I paying to stop something
> I didn't request. I told them to check my records for proof that I'd
> done anything to request a premium rate text, and added that without
> that proof, they were complicit in fraud.
>
> I got a refund immediately, and oddly enough have not received the
> like ever since.
That's interesting, I made a fuss with o2 and they still refused to
refund my money, even though I went up three levels in management (or
at least that's who they said they were putting me through to, could
have been anyone really). Apparently someone could have accessed my
handset or entered the wrong number on the website so it is entirely
my fault. So I've voted with my feet and switched to Orange. I'd
consider kicking up more of a fuss but for £1.50 it's not worth it --
which is annoying because the service providers are probably making a
tidy sum of money from this.
Of course, all this could be prevented by requiring all subscription
services to send a confirmation message directly to the number, which
*must* be replied to before they can charge you for the service. That
way the phone companies would have proof that you (or at least someone
with access to your handset) had signed up and therefore it would be
your liability - if not then it's obviously fraud and something could
be done about it.
Perhaps o2 have trained their staff to 'just say no, regardless' to
refunds after you got yours?
Paul
- 07-14-2007, 02:15 AM #9JonGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> I cannot see how this can be legal.
AFAIK it isn't. There has to be double opt-in for services initiated
from anywhere other than SMS from the handset itself. I think/hope.
> I more interested having them justify their
> business practices.
Keep us posted. Spamming scum are the scourge of the industry.
--
Regards
Jon
- 07-14-2007, 06:01 AM #10bofGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
In message <[email protected]>, Martin
<[email protected]> writes
>I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
>would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
Having just opened my phone bill I too have received one in June from
78181 which goes back to tanlamobile. Got one yesterday too from 81404
which also goes back to tanlamobile.
Spoke to Vodaphone yesterday about blocking texts from premium numbers,
this is before I realised I was being charged to receive them (until I
opened my bill today I thought you could only be charged for replying to
the premium rate number), and they to said they couldn't block incoming
premium rate texts. I've complained to ICSTIS about both of them and
requested a refund from tanlamobile for both of them.
I'm absolutely ****ing fuming and will be escalating it with Vodaphone
now I realise I'm being charged.
I've also found there's a freetext number you can forward them to, it's
VSPAM or 87726 see:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/08/25/vodafone_uk_aims_to_stamp/>
--
bof at bof dot me dot uk
- 07-14-2007, 06:27 AM #11bofGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
In message <[email protected]>, Allan Gould
<[email protected]> writes
>Martin wrote:
>> I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So
>>it would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
>
>Not that it's much use now, but:
>a) register the number with the TPS (but UK only)
Unfortunately TPS is no use for texts, to quote from their website:
"The TPS can accept the registration of mobile telephone numbers,
however it is important to note that this will prevent the receipt of
marketing voice calls but not SMS (text) messages. If you wish to stop
receiving SMS marketing messages, please send an 'opt-out' request to
the company involved."
--
bof at bof dot me dot uk
- 07-14-2007, 06:32 AM #12bofGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
In message <[email protected]>, bof <[email protected]>
writes
>In message <[email protected]>, Martin
><[email protected]> writes
>>I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181. So it
>>would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
>
>Having just opened my phone bill I too have received one in June from
>78181 which goes back to tanlamobile.
Excuse the follow-up to self but, as an FYI, I spoke to Vodaphone and
they issued a refund without quibble.
--
bof at bof dot me dot uk
- 07-14-2007, 08:58 AM #13Andy PandyGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
"bof" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, bof
<[email protected]>
> writes
> >In message <[email protected]>, Martin
> ><[email protected]> writes
> >>I'm about to complain about a premium rate SMS spam from 78181.
So it
> >>would be useful to know how many other people have received this.
> >
> >Having just opened my phone bill I too have received one in June
from
> >78181 which goes back to tanlamobile.
>
> Excuse the follow-up to self but, as an FYI, I spoke to Vodaphone
and
> they issued a refund without quibble.
Excellent - about time the mobile operators started to learn that they
can't allow any old dodgy outfit to charge their customers' phone
bills and then expect the customer to take it up with the dodgy
outfit.
--
Andy
- 07-14-2007, 09:19 AM #14Paul HarrisGuest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
In message <[email protected]>, Andy Pandy
<[email protected]> writes
>
>Excellent - about time the mobile operators started to learn that they
>can't allow any old dodgy outfit to charge their customers' phone
>bills and then expect the customer to take it up with the dodgy
>outfit.
>
Totally agree. l have always felt that the ones that take the money
from me are the ones with whom I should be dealing. If there is a
dispute then I speak to them about the problem. I don't see why I
should be expected to deal with a third party with whom I have no
contract or relationship, that should be their problem not mine. If a
third party wants to bill me they should prove that they are entitled to
do so I should not have to try to prove that they are not nor should I
have to try to reclaim my money from them if there was no agreement to
pay them in the first place.
--
Paul Harris
- 07-14-2007, 09:44 AM #15Guest
Re: SMS premium rate spam from 78181 (Orange UK)
On Jul 14, 4:19 pm, Paul Harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Andy Pandy
> <[email protected]> writes
>
> >Excellent - about time the mobile operators started to learn that they
> >can't allow any old dodgy outfit to charge their customers' phone
> >bills and then expect the customer to take it up with the dodgy
> >outfit.
>
> Totally agree. l have always felt that the ones that take the money
> from me are the ones with whom I should be dealing. If there is a
> dispute then I speak to them about the problem. I don't see why I
> should be expected to deal with a third party with whom I have no
> contract or relationship, that should be their problem not mine. If a
> third party wants to bill me they should prove that they are entitled to
> do so I should not have to try to prove that they are not nor should I
> have to try to reclaim my money from them if there was no agreement to
> pay them in the first place.
> --
> Paul Harris
All you have to do is write to the network operator's executive office
and request that they provide you with an audit trail proving that you
subscribed to the service for which they have charged you.
Make sure you tell them that if they are unable to do so, they will
have admitted being complicit in fraud which is a breach of the 1968
Theft Act and that you WILL involve the Police. At the same time, ask
for the name and office location of their Company Secretary as he/she
will be the one who has to front up to Plod.
If you genuinely are the victim of a scam (and I have been three
times, all with Orange), it works every time.
They back down immediately and will almost certainly blame it on the
previous owner of your number having subscribed to such services.
But you'll get a few quid in compensation out of them...........
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