Why Minutes free for hearing, but expensive for Deaf?

Dear All,

Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
people.

I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.

I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
video because it is expensive.

I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
understand all English.

Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.

I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
They respond that they cannot help me.

How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
procedure they not get anywhere.

Please advise. Many thanks.

John.

In message
67ee540b-3084-44e6-9b9f-af8583170778...oglegroups.com,
deafeagle4@googlemail.com <deafeagle4@googlemail.com> Proclaimed from the
tallest tower:

> Dear All,
>
> Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> people.
>
> I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> video because it is expensive.
>
> I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> understand all English.
>
> Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> Please advise. Many thanks.
>
> John.

Is there such a thing as a National Deafmute Society or similar? If there
is, I would suggest that you try and do something through them, the phone
companies will hopefully take more notice of something coming from an
'official' organisation, then they would from one single individual
'complaining'.

It seems to me though, that the problem you have is that although you MIGHT
be able to convince the phone companies to swap some of YOUR talk minutes
into video minutes, that you are deafmute is obvioulsy a matter of medical
fact, and can be proved to the companies if they required it. These video
minutes will be of no use to you unless you only want to 'talk' to other
deafmutes as I can see no way the phone companies will do the same thing for
any of you friends who are not deaf and/or mute...

Having said that, Good Luck! It seems to me you have a valid point,I hope
you get somewhere! At the very least, I think they should give you a
discount on your line rental as you cannot use any of your free talk
minutes!


--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

deafeagle4@googlemail.com <deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote:
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.

It might be worth contacting the RNID or something like Radio 4's In Touch
programme to lobby on your behalf - it's going to have to be a decision made
by the mobile networks' management not the shop floor people. Through press
offices they'd probably have better contacts than you'd be able to get
through just ringing up head office (though by all means try writing them a
letter).

By the way, I've found using a full keyboard phone to be much easier for
texting, so if that would help you use texting better then I'd recommend it.

Theo

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:47:40 -0800 (PST), "deafeagle4@googlemail.com"
<deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote:

>I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
>minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
>They respond that they cannot help me.
>
>How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
>decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
>procedure they not get anywhere.

Considered writing to the MD of a company?
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11

I think ChrisM & BGN have the right ideas. First send a written
complaint to the MD. Although you're unlikely to be satisfied with his
response (he's not gonna overhaul the available tarrifs due to a single
complaint), at least it's official and that gives the RNID and/or your
local MP something to work with.

Out of interest, I wonder what kind of a market exists for mobile video
calls only. I bet there would be more than just Deaf users interested
in such a deal. Unfortunately I don't think the texting issue would
fall under the discrimination umbrella (not liking is different than not
capable), but I think your arguments for a video only package are pretty
sound otherwise.

Good luck!
--
Walker Moore
(-_-),,|,

"Walker Moore" <walker.moore@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5sfbu6F1911tdU1@mid.individual.net...
>I think ChrisM & BGN have the right ideas. First send a written complaint
>to the MD. Although you're unlikely to be satisfied with his response
>(he's not gonna overhaul the available tarrifs due to a single complaint),
>at least it's official and that gives the RNID and/or your local MP
>something to work with.
>
> Out of interest, I wonder what kind of a market exists for mobile video
> calls only. I bet there would be more than just Deaf users interested in
> such a deal. Unfortunately I don't think the texting issue would fall
> under the discrimination umbrella (not liking is different than not
> capable), but I think your arguments for a video only package are pretty
> sound otherwise.
\



do video calls really update quickly enough to do sign language anyway? - i
would have thought the hands would become an ureadable blur.



--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

> What is MD?
MD is Managing Director. He means write to the person at the top, the
MD or the Chairman, point out to him that a text message uses a great deal
less data than a spoken message saying the same thing, and having an
incusive
attitude to people with disabilities may make their company more respected
by the rest of us.


--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

deafeagle4@googlemail.com <deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> people.
>
> I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> video because it is expensive.
>
> I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> understand all English.
>
> Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> Please advise. Many thanks.

Sadly, video calling is much more expensive for networks to support than
voice calling - due to the high bandwidth requirements. You're highly
unlikely to get things changed, as it would be commercial suicide to
offer free video calling in exchange for voice minutes - especially as
the DDA would quite possibly insist on this exchange being made
available to all users to avoid claims of 'positive discrimination'.


--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

the dog from that film you saw wrote:
> "Walker Moore" <walker.moore@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5sfbu6F1911tdU1@mid.individual.net...
>> I think ChrisM & BGN have the right ideas. First send a written complaint
>> to the MD. Although you're unlikely to be satisfied with his response
>> (he's not gonna overhaul the available tarrifs due to a single complaint),
>> at least it's official and that gives the RNID and/or your local MP
>> something to work with.
>>
>> Out of interest, I wonder what kind of a market exists for mobile video
>> calls only. I bet there would be more than just Deaf users interested in
>> such a deal. Unfortunately I don't think the texting issue would fall
>> under the discrimination umbrella (not liking is different than not
>> capable), but I think your arguments for a video only package are pretty
>> sound otherwise.
> \
>
> do video calls really update quickly enough to do sign language anyway? - i
> would have thought the hands would become an ureadable blur.

That's a question for the OP I suppose. There was certainly an
explosion in mobile phone usage among the Deaf when texting took off
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1808872.stm), but I'm not sure what
affect video has had thus far. I'd have thought ASL (American sign
language) was more suited to cellular video calling than BSL because
only one hand is required for communication. (It's a shame US networks
don't *do* video yet.) A BSL 'speaker' would surely require a tripod in
order to communicate effectively with a mobile phone.

--
Walker Moore
(-_-),,|,

On 14 Dec, 16:14, st...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) wrote:
> deafeag...@googlemail.com <deafeag...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Dear All,
>
> > Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> > deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> > people.
>
> > I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> > cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> > I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> > calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> > many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> > video because it is expensive.
>
> > I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> > understand all English.
>
> > Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> > problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> > video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> > I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> > minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> > They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> > How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> > decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> > procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> > Please advise. Many thanks.
>
> Sadly, video calling is much more expensive for networks to support than
> voice calling - due to the high bandwidth requirements. You're highly
> unlikely to get things changed, as it would be commercial suicide to
> offer free video calling in exchange for voice minutes - especially as
> the DDA would quite possibly insist on this exchange being made
> available to all users to avoid claims of 'positive discrimination'.

I don't think there's any such thing. However, there are several
commercial deals (motability spring to mind) which are only available
to a subset of the general population.

Personally (and this may be a portent of the way the futures going),
I'd try the domestic route, as suggested, but see if I could copy in
the EU body responsible for trade regulation. ISTM they have done more
to get the UK operators to change their ways than the present bunch of
incompetent cretins who appear to have replaced sensible human beings
in the government.




>
> --
> SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'www.italiancar.co.uk- Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
> Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
> BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

Yes I have email to CEO (email addresses I have found but I do not
know if they are real CEO of all operators) yesterday, but no reply
yet.

Yes, we use BSL to use video calling. Today my friend use video
calling with me, it was great because I feel I can bond with someone
more than using texting.

Yes, the operators need to improve the quality of video calling, need
more mobile phone to be created. Some new phone do not include video
calling which was frustrating.

It is very important for all operators to introduce deals for video
calling. the more people use this, the more cheaper the opeartor to
pay for it.



On Dec 15, 1:07 am, Jethro <jethro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 14 Dec, 16:14, st...@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > deafeag...@googlemail.com <deafeag...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Dear All,
>
> > > Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> > > deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> > > people.
>
> > > I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> > > cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> > > I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> > > calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> > > many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> > > video because it is expensive.
>
> > > I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> > > understand all English.
>
> > > Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> > > problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> > > video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> > > I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> > > minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> > > They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> > > How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> > > decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> > > procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> > > Please advise. Many thanks.
>
> > Sadly, video calling is much more expensive for networks to support than
> > voice calling - due to the high bandwidth requirements. You're highly
> > unlikely to get things changed, as it would be commercial suicide to
> > offer free video calling in exchange for voice minutes - especially as
> > the DDA would quite possibly insist on this exchange being made
> > available to all users to avoid claims of 'positive discrimination'.
>
> I don't think there's any such thing. However, there are several
> commercial deals (motability spring to mind) which are only available
> to a subset of the general population.
>
> Personally (and this may be a portent of the way the futures going),
> I'd try the domestic route, as suggested, but see if I could copy in
> the EU body responsible for trade regulation. ISTM they have done more
> to get the UK operators to change their ways than the present bunch of
> incompetent cretins who appear to have replaced sensible human beings
> in the government.
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'www.italiancar.co.uk-Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
> > Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
> > BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

<deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:67ee540b-3084-44e6-9b9f-af8583170778@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Dear All,
>
> Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> people.
>
> I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> video because it is expensive.
>
> I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> understand all English.
>
> Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> Please advise. Many thanks.

Well, there's been a backward step or 10 on this issue actually. In the
early days of mass consumer mobile phone services T-Mobile (then One2One)
provided a free customer service number for people described as having a
disability (122 if I'm not mistaken). There was also an exemption, if I
remember correctly, for certain pay services such as directory enquiries.
For all I know this service/these services still exist. Still, there's now a
lack of responsiveness (and responsibility) on the part of the large
companies in terms of social responsibility. Things haven't moved on.

The Government perhaps had an opportunity when selling the relevant air
space to force companies to provide an equal opportunities based
anti-discriminatory perspective for future services in their bids. This
didn't happen. Strange that it was missed given both the liberal Tory and
new Labour emphasis on social inclusion. (There should have been a sarcasm
tag in there somewhere).

The problem is that the shift from the ethos of the public service company
(old style Post Office Telecommunications) to the ethos of crude and simple
profit making has disadvantaged certain groups of people.

There is little prospect of companies responding positively to pressure
group action. Maybe there was a chance of this in the early/mid 90s but it
has now gone. Government action seems to be the way forward although, with
the current bunch of stupid tossers in power, I wouldn't hold your breath.

An alternative technological solution may rest in mobile laptop connectivity
to the internet proper and use of the wide range of PC based software
solutions (and internet telephony solutions) that are more than capable of
meeting this need. It isn't perfect (you can't store a laptop in your
pocket) and you need extra hardware but it does at least provide a pragmatic
workaround albeit an unsatisfactory one.

<deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:67ee540b-3084-44e6-9b9f-af8583170778@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Dear All,
>
> Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> people.
>
> I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> video because it is expensive.
>
> I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> understand all English.
>
> Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> Please advise. Many thanks.
>
> John.

You could try writing to your local MP.

<deafeagle4@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:67ee540b-3084-44e6-9b9f-af8583170778@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Dear All,
>
> Many operators like Three.co.uk, O2, Orange, etc offer exclusive
> deals. Too many deals that offer free voice messages to hearing
> people.
>
> I am Deafmute, which means I cannot hear nothing, or cannot speak, or
> cannot lipread. I only use British Sign Language.
>
> I like to talk to other Deafmute British Sign Language users via video
> calling and video messages. I only got free 50 video minutes but my
> many friends do not have any free video messages. They will not use
> video because it is expensive.
>
> I do not like texting because too much English. It's hard to
> understand all English.
>
> Every time I go to shop like Link, 3, 02, Carphone I face the same
> problem. I ask if 500 or 1000 free voice minutes can be replaced into
> video minutes. They said No they cannot do that.
>
> I feel it is discrimination because deaf people had to pay for 500
> minutes or 1000 minutes on rental and get nothing benefit from them.
> They respond that they cannot help me.
>
> How can I change this? I do not know who to approach people who are
> decision making to provide services? Every time I use complaint
> procedure they not get anywhere.
>
> Please advise. Many thanks.
>
> John.

What I'd like to see is an extension of T-mobiles Flex, and 3's MixNMatch,
tariffs to include voice calls, sms, mms, web, and video. Then most peoples
individual and inconsistant usage will be catered for.