Mobile phone cashback 'rip-off'

"Mobile phone cashback schemes are still letting down too many consumers,
says the telecoms regulator."
Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7152196.stm

In message fkd129$cck$1@news.albasani.net,
Ebenezer Scrooge <throwawayaccount0001@gmail.com> Proclaimed from the
tallest tower:

> "Mobile phone cashback schemes are still letting down too many
> consumers, says the telecoms regulator."
> Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7152196.stm

I thought it was an known fact that these companies rely on not everyone
'qualifying' for their cashback payments, otherwise they'll go out of
business. Therefore it's not in their interests to make it easy to get
them...
(not that I'm saying that's a good thing!)

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

In message <5padnTnoEZnXqffaRVnyuAA@bt.com>, ChrisM
<chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> writes
>In message fkd129$cck$1@news.albasani.net,
>Ebenezer Scrooge <throwawayaccount0001@gmail.com> Proclaimed from the
>tallest tower:
>
>> "Mobile phone cashback schemes are still letting down too many
>> consumers, says the telecoms regulator."
>> Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7152196.stm
>
>I thought it was an known fact that these companies rely on not everyone
>'qualifying' for their cashback payments, otherwise they'll go out of
>business. Therefore it's not in their interests to make it easy to get
>them...
>(not that I'm saying that's a good thing!)
>
You are right, the business model is unsustainable if everyone
successfully claims a cash back so it is based on an assumed failure
rate. The problem is that whilst at one time only about 40% of claims
made were compliant with the T&C's what has happened is that those who
lost out through missing dates etc. no longer take up these offers where
as those who have been successful in the past are still doing it. That
has meant that the number of legitimate claims has increased
considerably and as a result the companies are suffering. This has led
to them rejecting legitimate claims and that is the real problem because
they are bouncing claims that comply with the T&C's and are acting in
breach of contract.
--
Paul Harris

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote in
message news:5svb4eF1bi0luU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Ebenezer Scrooge"
<throwawayaccount0001@gmail.com> wrote
> in message news:fkd129$cck$1@news.albasani.net
> : : "Mobile phone cashback schemes are still
letting down
> : : too many consumers, says the telecoms
regulator."
> : : Full story at
> : :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7152196.stm
>
> Of course they are. How can anybody be fooled
into thinking that mobile
> firms/networks are going to give them money..?
>
> Ivor
>

I was successful on my first 2, so when the third
failed, i wasn't to worried, as 3 years, 3 new
phones & lots of free calls. only paying for 1
year.

roy

In message <85udnZBnbbZGHPfaRVnyuQA@brightview.com>, royc <me@you.com>
writes

>I was successful on my first 2, so when the third
>failed, i wasn't to worried, as 3 years, 3 new
>phones & lots of free calls. only paying for 1
>year.
>
We are in a similar position with four such contracts and have enjoyed
the benefits in the past. Three of the four have had claims rejected
for things that were supposedly in breach of the T&C's and the fourth
contracts claim has yet to be submitted. Having played the game in the
past we know that we didn't slip up as after the first one, which we are
sure was correct anyway, we double checked the next two. We will pursue
them as they are now in breach of contract but whether we have any
success in doing so remains to be seen. Whilst they continue to trade
we are in with a chance so time will tell.
--
Paul Harris

Paul Harris <nospam@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:h4U1kfU2aoaHFwxW@zen50073.zen.co.uk:


It is true that it is just a numbers game - if enough people buy and
don't get their money there will be money for the remainder and the
company still makes a profit. I think the problems have grown because
more people have learned 'how' to play the game - photographing claims,
registering all their cashback claim letters and, of course, money claim
online making it so easy to take 'shirkers' to court.

I have had a total of 18 contracts over the last few years - I was
probably just lucky in the early years but recently I have had to 'up' my
game - I have never been unsuccesful in getting a cashback payment, but
in the last 2 years I have issued 5 online claims through the courts - 4
of these were paid out before the court date (including costs) the 5th is
ongoing. Strangely this time Phones2UDirect have acually missed the date
by which they had to file a defense, I have not been here before ! I have
obtained a judgement by default and will see what happens from here.

Some people say why go to all the trouble ? I don't, any longer, consider
it is a lot of trouble - I have all the form letters - Letters before
action, template text for the court forms and of course an account with
the Onlines Claim Service. I have calculated the cost in my time of
servicing the last 2 contracts I have had - 5 cashback claims - a total
of 10 cashbacks for the 2 contracts - have taken just under 2 Hours 15
minutes to administer. The market 'value' of the contracts was £1260 (2 x
18 month @ £35) - so I consider my time well paid at that rate - it is
true to say that were I paying for the contracts I might choose something
slightly cheaper.

It is 'horses for courses' - if you are happy to put the time in you can
save the money - if you want an easy life pay for the contract in the
usual way and save yopurself some work. I have learned to treat these
cashback contracts as 'just business' (as the Don would have said) - I
don't get annoyed or stressed by how the company behaves, I just follow
my game plan. As a previous poster said I would not fell too cheated even
if I did not get all the money back as I have had the service - however,
as I said, so far I have been rewarded.

My 2 $0.02 worth.

In message <Xns9A0D8F46420B6Pat@193.202.122.104>, Postman Pat
<Pat@hello.com> writes
>Paul Harris <nospam@127.0.0.1> wrote in
>news:h4U1kfU2aoaHFwxW@zen50073.zen.co.uk:
>
>
>It is true that it is just a numbers game - if enough people buy and
>don't get their money there will be money for the remainder and the
>company still makes a profit. I think the problems have grown because
>more people have learned 'how' to play the game - photographing claims,
>registering all their cashback claim letters and, of course, money claim
>online making it so easy to take 'shirkers' to court.
>
I agree, those who are still playing this game are the ones who have
been on the ball and that is why the companies are finding things
difficult because the forgetful customers are no longer there. It seems
that their response has been to reject legitimate claims which is why we
are all now going to have to take action through MCOL. I doubt they
will offer these contracts in future but for now Mobile Outlet will soon
be getting three claims plus costs.
--
Paul Harris

Postman Pat wrote:
>
> I have had a total of 18 contracts over the last few years - I was
> probably just lucky in the early years but recently I have had to 'up' my
> game - I have never been unsuccesful in getting a cashback payment, but
> in the last 2 years I have issued 5 online claims through the courts - 4
> of these were paid out before the court date (including costs) the 5th is
> ongoing. Strangely this time Phones2UDirect have acually missed the date
> by which they had to file a defense, I have not been here before ! I have
> obtained a judgement by default and will see what happens from here.

I do find it a bit odd that firms are paying out even more than they
have to by not responding to threats of court etc, and having to pay
court fees - and as you say, P2UD have upped the ante and are now not
even paying up when they get a judgement against them, which will
(presumably) ultimately cost them even more (assuming they stay around,
of course).

David

Lobster re: Phones2UDirect
>are now not even paying up when they get a judgement against them,..

Sure sign they going tits up.
regards,
Martin

Just an update to the group re my last claim against Phonws2UDirect - I
obtained judgement by default on the 17th December and have today received
a cheque in full settlement.

Regarding them leaving payment until taken to court - it's true that I
don't understand their strategy of allowing the claim to proceed to
judgement as this gives them a 'record' - I suppose it could make some
sense to wait until people actually issue proceedings as some people will
not follow up on that even if they do issue them - or will fail for a
procedural reason in the course of the claim. I can only think that we are
talking cash flow here - if phones2U really don't have the flow to pay the
stream of claims arising they really have no choice but to defer until the
last moment - a company cannot issue a cheque that will be dishonoured. As
far as them going under it would seem that this is possible, only time will
tell.

I now have my last 2 contracts with Phoneboxdirect, but havfe not yet had
to make a claim - I am jolly glad that I combed the T&C's carefully before
taking the last 2 out - they look quite straight forward to me. Which is
not to say that they won't go bust before my claim gets to them ! I will
not fell too bad even then. I was lucky back in the Forward Cellular days
that all my claims got paid before they went under although I am told that
they did not go bankrupt strictly because of their Cashback offers but on a
VAT technicality - they tried not to pay and the Excise people made them
bankrupt !

Good luck to all those with outstanding payments and suffice to say that it
is because we have become too good at claiming that these offers will
probably not go on - fair enough really.

Regards