iPhone on PAYG

Graeme Wood <[email protected]> wrote:

> BGN wrote:
>
> > Pwnage Tool unlocks the iPhone and iPhone 3G with v2 softare.
>
> No. It only jailbreaks iPhone 3G. It does not unlock it.

Pwnage did both for my original iPhone, it is now jailbroken (with the
pineapple logo) and unlocked so I'm using it with an Orange sim card...

Franck.
--
Ceroc: Pure Dance Addiction - Learn to dance the easy way.
For info on nights and classes in Scotland or throughout the UK.
E-mail: [email protected] -
Ceroc Scotland Homepage: <http://www.cerocscotland.com/>

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› See More: iPhone on PAYG

nospam wrote:

> right now, the *only* way to unlock an iphone 3g is with a 'dodgy sim.'
>
> here's one:
> <http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/08/0...re-based-iphon
> e-3g-unlock/>

There are a few of those floating around ebay if ye search for "unlock
sim" - about a tenner or less delivered. A little circuit card with a
chip sits beneath your sim (slightly modified as the chip sticks out)
and tells fibs to the phone about the sim's origin.

Interesting to see how long this device will be allowed to be sold on eBay.

--
Adrian C

"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7 Aug 2008 20:19:18 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Tobin)
> wrote:
>
>>>>Plus, with "unlimited" data on all iPhone tarrifs they are quite
>>>>competitive.
>>
>>>Yup. I paid £150 for my Nokia n95 on T-Mobile's Flext 35 (£35/mo) +
>>>£7.50 for web'n'walk (which firewalled IM apps) whereas My iPhone 3G
>>>cost me £99 and is on o2 at £35/mo with unlimited (and unfirewalled!)
>>>t'interent access.
>>
>>All very well if you spend such huge sums on phone calls. I spend
>>about a pound a month on my mobile phone. So 30 pounds a month would
>>amount to 29 pounds a month to be able to Google things on the bus.
>
> I suppose all of the other features phones have do help to distract
> from the fact that nobody ever calls you.

What? It took about 4 attempts before I could understand your "me speakie
the Inglis" sentence. I'm still not sure if you intended it as a flame.

Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
English.

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, "Gareth"
<hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:

>>>>>Plus, with "unlimited" data on all iPhone tarrifs they are quite
>>>>>competitive.
>>>
>>>>Yup. I paid £150 for my Nokia n95 on T-Mobile's Flext 35 (£35/mo) +
>>>>£7.50 for web'n'walk (which firewalled IM apps) whereas My iPhone 3G
>>>>cost me £99 and is on o2 at £35/mo with unlimited (and unfirewalled!)
>>>>t'interent access.
>>>
>>>All very well if you spend such huge sums on phone calls. I spend
>>>about a pound a month on my mobile phone. So 30 pounds a month would
>>>amount to 29 pounds a month to be able to Google things on the bus.
>>
>> I suppose all of the other features phones have do help to distract
>> from the fact that nobody ever calls you.
>
>What? It took about 4 attempts before I could understand your "me speakie
>the Inglis" sentence. I'm still not sure if you intended it as a flame.
>
>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
>English.

I guess that English degree was a waste then.
--
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"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, "Gareth"
> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>Plus, with "unlimited" data on all iPhone tarrifs they are quite
>>>>>>competitive.
>>>>
>>>>>Yup. I paid £150 for my Nokia n95 on T-Mobile's Flext 35 (£35/mo) +
>>>>>£7.50 for web'n'walk (which firewalled IM apps) whereas My iPhone 3G
>>>>>cost me £99 and is on o2 at £35/mo with unlimited (and unfirewalled!)
>>>>>t'interent access.
>>>>
>>>>All very well if you spend such huge sums on phone calls. I spend
>>>>about a pound a month on my mobile phone. So 30 pounds a month would
>>>>amount to 29 pounds a month to be able to Google things on the bus.
>>>
>>> I suppose all of the other features phones have do help to distract
>>> from the fact that nobody ever calls you.
>>
>>What? It took about 4 attempts before I could understand your "me speakie
>>the Inglis" sentence. I'm still not sure if you intended it as a flame.
>>
>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
>>English.
>
> I guess that English degree was a waste then.

I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who was it
a waste for? You don't make that clear.

Gareth.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:53:43 +0100, "Gareth"
<hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:

>
>
>"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, "Gareth"
>> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>Plus, with "unlimited" data on all iPhone tarrifs they are quite
>>>>>>>competitive.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Yup. I paid £150 for my Nokia n95 on T-Mobile's Flext 35 (£35/mo) +
>>>>>>£7.50 for web'n'walk (which firewalled IM apps) whereas My iPhone 3G
>>>>>>cost me £99 and is on o2 at £35/mo with unlimited (and unfirewalled!)
>>>>>>t'interent access.
>>>>>
>>>>>All very well if you spend such huge sums on phone calls. I spend
>>>>>about a pound a month on my mobile phone. So 30 pounds a month would
>>>>>amount to 29 pounds a month to be able to Google things on the bus.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose all of the other features phones have do help to distract
>>>> from the fact that nobody ever calls you.
>>>
>>>What? It took about 4 attempts before I could understand your "me speakie
>>>the Inglis" sentence. I'm still not sure if you intended it as a flame.
>>>
>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
>>>English.
>>
>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>
>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who was it
>a waste for? You don't make that clear.

Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
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"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:53:43 +0100, "Gareth"
> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, "Gareth"
>>> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>Plus, with "unlimited" data on all iPhone tarrifs they are quite
>>>>>>>>competitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yup. I paid £150 for my Nokia n95 on T-Mobile's Flext 35 (£35/mo) +
>>>>>>>£7.50 for web'n'walk (which firewalled IM apps) whereas My iPhone 3G
>>>>>>>cost me £99 and is on o2 at £35/mo with unlimited (and unfirewalled!)
>>>>>>>t'interent access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All very well if you spend such huge sums on phone calls. I spend
>>>>>>about a pound a month on my mobile phone. So 30 pounds a month would
>>>>>>amount to 29 pounds a month to be able to Google things on the bus.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose all of the other features phones have do help to distract
>>>>> from the fact that nobody ever calls you.
>>>>
>>>>What? It took about 4 attempts before I could understand your "me
>>>>speakie
>>>>the Inglis" sentence. I'm still not sure if you intended it as a flame.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
>>>>English.
>>>
>>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>>
>>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who was
>>it
>>a waste for? You don't make that clear.
>
> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?

An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
benefit to human kind than an English degree.

Gareth.

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 19:18:39 +0100, "Gareth"
<hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:

>>>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in chuffing
>>>>>English.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>>>
>>>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who was
>>>it
>>>a waste for? You don't make that clear.
>>
>> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
>
>An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
>benefit to human kind than an English degree.

But does it help you to Google on the bus?
--
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-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11

"Gareth" <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:53:43 +0100, "Gareth"
>> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>>>"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, "Gareth"
>>>> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
>
> An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
> benefit to human kind than an English degree.
> Gareth.
I believe you would.
An English degree gives you the understanding of language
to progress to Sociology, and other social sciences or humanities.

Only a fool would put the cart before the horse

Steve Terry

Franck wrote:
> Graeme Wood <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> BGN wrote:
>>
>>> Pwnage Tool unlocks the iPhone and iPhone 3G with v2 softare.
>> No. It only jailbreaks iPhone 3G. It does not unlock it.
>
> Pwnage did both for my original iPhone, it is now jailbroken (with the
> pineapple logo) and unlocked so I'm using it with an Orange sim card...
>
> Franck.

I was quite careful to say: "iPhone 3G".

"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 19:18:39 +0100, "Gareth"
> <hotmail.com@dgareth_nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in
>>>>>>chuffing
>>>>>>English.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>>>>
>>>>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who
>>>>was
>>>>it
>>>>a waste for? You don't make that clear.
>>>
>>> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
>>
>>An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
>>benefit to human kind than an English degree.
>
> But does it help you to Google on the bus?

Depends on whether or not you can afford the price plan costs of data use -
with an English degree it's pretty likely that you'll either be a) a teacher
or b) unemployed. This is at least one benefit I suppose of O2's unlimited
data use iPhone plans.

Gareth.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:05:15 +0100, "Gareth" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>>>>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in
>>>>>>>chuffing
>>>>>>>English.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who
>>>>>was
>>>>>it
>>>>>a waste for? You don't make that clear.
>>>>
>>>> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
>>>
>>>An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
>>>benefit to human kind than an English degree.
>>
>> But does it help you to Google on the bus?
>
>Depends on whether or not you can afford the price plan costs of data use -
>with an English degree it's pretty likely that you'll either be a) a teacher
>or b) unemployed. This is at least one benefit I suppose of O2's unlimited
>data use iPhone plans.

I don't see why you think it's so expensive. On T-Mobile I was on
Flext £35 + web'n'walk which cost £35/mo (flext) + £7.50 (web'n'walk)
and my Nokia n95 cost me £150.

On o2 I'm on their £35 tariff which includes unlimited (and
unfirewalled!) data use and the iPhone 3G cost me £100 so I'm SAVING
£185 by using the iPhone 3G over the duration of the contract.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: [email protected]
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11

"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:05:15 +0100, "Gareth" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>Anyway, if you're going to flame someone at least flame them in
>>>>>>>>chuffing
>>>>>>>>English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess that English degree was a waste then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I suspect it probably was but, again, it's difficult to be sure - who
>>>>>>was
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>a waste for? You don't make that clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely a degree is for the greater good of mankind?
>>>>
>>>>An English degree? I think Sociology or Women's Studies would be of more
>>>>benefit to human kind than an English degree.
>>>
>>> But does it help you to Google on the bus?
>>
>>Depends on whether or not you can afford the price plan costs of data
>>use -
>>with an English degree it's pretty likely that you'll either be a) a
>>teacher
>>or b) unemployed. This is at least one benefit I suppose of O2's unlimited
>>data use iPhone plans.
>
> I don't see why you think it's so expensive. On T-Mobile I was on
> Flext £35 + web'n'walk which cost £35/mo (flext) + £7.50 (web'n'walk)
> and my Nokia n95 cost me £150.
>
> On o2 I'm on their £35 tariff which includes unlimited (and
> unfirewalled!) data use and the iPhone 3G cost me £100 so I'm SAVING
> £185 by using the iPhone 3G over the duration of the contract.

This is the only benefit of the O2 iPhone plan. Still, mainstream O2 plans
£35 or over (I think it's £35 and over) allow you to add a free "internet"
bolt on.

Once you add the (unnecessary) wi-fi add on to the cost of a mainstream O2
plan it looks as if the iPhone plan isn't such good value for money - the
relative lack of minutes and texts offsets the advantage of the included
data use. There's no competition in terms of alternative service providers
offering iPhone contracts so it's not surprising, I think, that the iPhone
contract is (aside from data use) pretty poor value for money. It's a bit
odd though that there's no flexibility built in to the iPhone plan to remove
wi-fi access and add more minutes or texts instead.

The quality of the iPhone puts me off (build quality and hardware specs) and
the way that the phone is locked down to a particular network via a
corporate slickness that would (almost) put M$ to shame isn't good either.
Apple's unimaginative hardware specs force them to promote the iPhone in
other ways: marketing hype over substance. Actually, Apple's recent hardware
releases have been far from impressive - a new line of iMacs which are
overpriced and underspecced at a time when almost every PC manufacturer is
offering Blu-ray.

The N95 may well be more expensive on some contracts and the O2 price of the
N95 has just, suspiciously, been significantly increased. But the N95 is a
far better device than the iPhone - at least as far as the N95's excellent
camera, third party apps and browsing functionality are concerned. It's even
possible to use the N95 as a replacement for a dedicated camera - the
quality isn't too far off and most people wouldn't notice the difference.

Gareth.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:49:26 +0100, "Gareth" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> I don't see why you think it's so expensive. On T-Mobile I was on
>> Flext £35 + web'n'walk which cost £35/mo (flext) + £7.50 (web'n'walk)
>> and my Nokia n95 cost me £150.
>>
>> On o2 I'm on their £35 tariff which includes unlimited (and
>> unfirewalled!) data use and the iPhone 3G cost me £100 so I'm SAVING
>> £185 by using the iPhone 3G over the duration of the contract.
>
>This is the only benefit of the O2 iPhone plan. Still, mainstream O2 plans
>£35 or over (I think it's £35 and over) allow you to add a free "internet"
>bolt on.

<navigates to o2's tariffs site>

[1] Standard tariff £35/mo buys you 600 minutes and 500 texts + one
free bolt on. Then add on unlimited WiFi bolt on and web bolt on and
that's £35 + £7.50 + £7.50 - £7.50 discount = £42.50/mo + price of
handset

[2] iPhone tariff £35/mo buys you 600 minutes and 500 texts +
unlimited data + unlimited wifi + reduced roaming rates + £99 handset

So... just by not having to pay for one of the bolt ons one saves £135
over the term of the contract, or £7.50/mo.

Therefore the 'value' of o2's iPhone contract is in line with the
standard o2 tariff of similar spec, but the iPhone one has more
included.

[1] Source:
http://www.o2.co.uk/mobilestariffs/t...monthlytariffs

[2] Source: http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly

>Once you add the (unnecessary) wi-fi add on to the cost of a mainstream O2
>plan it looks as if the iPhone plan isn't such good value for money

Can you please clarify why unlmimited use of Cloud hotspots is
unnecessary? How else are you going to get unlimited Cloud access for
free?

>...- the
>relative lack of minutes and texts offsets the advantage of the included
>data use.

Rubbish, "relative lack of minutes and texts" the standard £35/mo o2
tariff (linked at source [1] above) provides the exact same number of
minutes as the £35 iPhone tariff (linked at source [2] above).

>...There's no competition in terms of alternative service providers
>offering iPhone contracts so it's not surprising, I think, that the iPhone
>contract is (aside from data use) pretty poor value for money.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? It's the
same price as the normal o2 tariffs and includes the same amount - so
what's it pretty poor value for money in comparison to? A mirror
image tariff by the same network both priced at exactly the same price
with exactly the same number of inclusive minutes and texts?

>...It's a bit
>odd though that there's no flexibility built in to the iPhone plan to remove
>wi-fi access and add more minutes or texts instead.

Is this an option in standard o2 tariffs then?

>The quality of the iPhone puts me off (build quality and hardware specs) and
>the way that the phone is locked down to a particular network via a
>corporate slickness that would (almost) put M$ to shame isn't good either.

What's your issue with build quality?

>Apple's unimaginative hardware specs force them to promote the iPhone in
>other ways: marketing hype over substance.

The specs of the iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPod Touch seem to be pretty
good to me. My iPhone 3G has excellent battery life, excellent 3D
accelerator (Super Monkey Ball, Cro Mag Rally), super responsive touch
screen, excellent processor (look at the 2D processing in things like
Aqua Forest) and performs tasks far more swiftly than my n95 which had
the battery life of one day. Do you believe Apple is promoting the
iPhone/iPhone 3G/iPod Touch based on what they actually do rather
than, erm, something else? They're very interesting products and can
do such a lot, it would be foolish not to market the device by showing
what it could do.

Let's compare two devices and two advertising campains:

Nokia's n95 advertisement:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFcMssGbWbo> <-- "My little magical
treat which does all sorts of things for me" "It's my magic box" "I
would call it my best mate" "Without it I would be incomplete" "My
hero" "My magic maker", etc. Is this not the exact "marketing hype
over substance" you accused Apple of?

Now, let's look at another random advertisement, let's look Apple's
iPhone advert:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydTkEYfkK0w> "This is how you turn it
on" - If it is, as you say "marketing hype over substance" then why is
the ONLY focus of this advert the iPhone, what it does and how you do
it? This is product and function specific advertising, not "it's my
little magical treat which does all sorts of things for me" - THAT is
hype.

>...Actually, Apple's recent hardware
>releases have been far from impressive - a new line of iMacs which are
>overpriced and underspecced at a time when almost every PC manufacturer is
>offering Blu-ray.

I can't really comment about their computing hardware as I don't own
any as I think it's rather over-priced for what one gets, although
colleagues who say I should get one but can't justify the cost say "OS
X is really nice though" and I'd expect it to be "really nice" if I
could buy, off the shelf, three or four PCs of similar or higher specs
and still have change in my pocket or, for the same money, buy one
iMac.

>The N95 may well be more expensive on some contracts and the O2 price of the
>N95 has just, suspiciously, been significantly increased. But the N95 is a
>far better device than the iPhone - at least as far as the N95's excellent
>camera,

I don't know if you've got an n95 or not but the camera is FAR from
perfect. Here's a shot I took in Germany last year using my n95:

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/1763236974/sizes/o/in/set-72157602725112655/>
<-- That image has *not* been recompressed or altered in any way -
that's the original. That really is bad quality, isn't it, even
though that photo was taken on the highest quality settings.

Now here's a random photo I took with my old Olympus c5000Z in 2004,
which is also five megapixels:

<http://flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/2749006417/sizes/o/> <-- Look at the
detail. Same megapixels, but the image returned from the n95 is far,
far inferior.

The n95 might well say "five megapixels" on the side, it might save at
the same resolution, but the quality is utter **** compared to an old
5mp camera bought in 2004, is it not?

>...third party apps and browsing functionality are concerned. It's even
>possible to use the N95 as a replacement for a dedicated camera - the
>quality isn't too far off and most people wouldn't notice the difference.

Well, there are squillions of apps in the appstore...

153 books, 43 business tools, 49 educational tools, 139 entertainment
tools, 49 finance apps, 406 games, 66 health & fitness apps, 51
lifestyle apps, 47 music apps, 39 navigational tools, 21 news apps, 29
photography related programs, 97 productivity tools, 51 reference
tools, 34 social networking apps, 33 sports related, 51 travel, 164
utilities and 7 weather apps this hour in the appstore. Which exact
tool isn't available on the iPhone that you require, either paid for
or free?

Nokia's "Download!" utility was okay, if a bit clunky, but didn't
feature that amount of content. And if I did download something from
AllAboutSymbian and went through the process of trying to feed it to
my n95 then most of the time the SIS file would say it had expired.
However, I do know that all of the Apps listed above in the AppStore
will actually work on my iPhone and if I upgrade to another one, or
switch to an iPod Touch then I'm not going to have to buy them again
like Nokia wanted everyone to do with their game offerings.
--
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-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11

"BGN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:49:26 +0100, "Gareth" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> I don't see why you think it's so expensive. On T-Mobile I was on
>>> Flext £35 + web'n'walk which cost £35/mo (flext) + £7.50 (web'n'walk)
>>> and my Nokia n95 cost me £150.
>>>
>>> On o2 I'm on their £35 tariff which includes unlimited (and
>>> unfirewalled!) data use and the iPhone 3G cost me £100 so I'm SAVING
>>> £185 by using the iPhone 3G over the duration of the contract.
>>
>>This is the only benefit of the O2 iPhone plan. Still, mainstream O2 plans
>>£35 or over (I think it's £35 and over) allow you to add a free "internet"
>>bolt on.
>
> <navigates to o2's tariffs site>
>
> [1] Standard tariff £35/mo buys you 600 minutes and 500 texts + one
> free bolt on. Then add on unlimited WiFi bolt on and web bolt on and
> that's £35 + £7.50 + £7.50 - £7.50 discount = £42.50/mo + price of
> handset
>
> [2] iPhone tariff £35/mo buys you 600 minutes and 500 texts +
> unlimited data + unlimited wifi + reduced roaming rates + £99 handset
>
> So... just by not having to pay for one of the bolt ons one saves £135
> over the term of the contract, or £7.50/mo.

Nope, if you select a £35 a month online tariff you have the option to
change the included bolt on (02 to 02 calls) for one of your choice.

> Therefore the 'value' of o2's iPhone contract is in line with the
> standard o2 tariff of similar spec, but the iPhone one has more
> included.
>
> [1] Source:
> http://www.o2.co.uk/mobilestariffs/t...monthlytariffs
>
> [2] Source: http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly


Really? Despite the fact that the £35 a month tariff includes 600 minutes
plus *1000* texts for non iPhone customers.

>>Once you add the (unnecessary) wi-fi add on to the cost of a mainstream O2
>>plan it looks as if the iPhone plan isn't such good value for money
>
> Can you please clarify why unlmimited use of Cloud hotspots is
> unnecessary? How else are you going to get unlimited Cloud access for
> free?

It isn't for free - clue: you're paying for it in the cost of the contract.
The other point is - what if you don't want to or need to use Cloud.

>>...- the
>>relative lack of minutes and texts offsets the advantage of the included
>>data use.
>
> Rubbish, "relative lack of minutes and texts" the standard £35/mo o2
> tariff (linked at source [1] above) provides the exact same number of
> minutes as the £35 iPhone tariff (linked at source [2] above).

Already dealt with that one.

>>...There's no competition in terms of alternative service providers
>>offering iPhone contracts so it's not surprising, I think, that the iPhone
>>contract is (aside from data use) pretty poor value for money.
>
> You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

<pantomime pose> Oh yes I do </pantomime pose>.

> It's the
> same price as the normal o2 tariffs and includes the same amount

Oh no it's not (can't be bothered with the markup).

> - so
> what's it pretty poor value for money in comparison to? A mirror
> image tariff by the same network both priced at exactly the same price
> with exactly the same number of inclusive minutes and texts?
>
>>...It's a bit
>>odd though that there's no flexibility built in to the iPhone plan to
>>remove
>>wi-fi access and add more minutes or texts instead.
>
> Is this an option in standard o2 tariffs then?

Yes - those £35 or over.

>>The quality of the iPhone puts me off (build quality and hardware specs)
>>and
>>the way that the phone is locked down to a particular network via a
>>corporate slickness that would (almost) put M$ to shame isn't good either.
>
> What's your issue with build quality?

It's ****.

<snipped>

> I don't know if you've got an n95 or not but the camera is FAR from
> perfect. Here's a shot I took in Germany last year using my n95:
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/1763236974/sizes/o/in/set-72157602725112655/>
> <-- That image has *not* been recompressed or altered in any way -
> that's the original. That really is bad quality, isn't it, even
> though that photo was taken on the highest quality settings.

It's crap but what do you expect when you ask a camera phone lens to take a
valley panorama shot in poor light?!

> Now here's a random photo I took with my old Olympus c5000Z in 2004,
> which is also five megapixels:
>
> <http://flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/2749006417/sizes/o/> <-- Look at the
> detail. Same megapixels, but the image returned from the n95 is far,
> far inferior.

Actually it isn't - the same issues are apparent: lack of focus on the
horizon being a main one (the Olympus is also using very aggressive noise
reduction in the foreground).

> The n95 might well say "five megapixels" on the side, it might save at
> the same resolution, but the quality is utter **** compared to an old
> 5mp camera bought in 2004, is it not?

I would expect a dedicated camera to be better - at least I should hope it
is. The lens should be better. I have a 10 year old 1.6 megapixel camera
that produces better valley pictures than the N95. My point was/is that the
N95 will produce very good photos which, in most cases, are almost as good
as a dedicated multi purpose camera (portrait shots are a strong point of
the N95). Most people wouldn't notice the difference for portrait shots.
Your German valley shot would cause most sub £700 SLRs to struggle.

>>...third party apps and browsing functionality are concerned. It's even
>>possible to use the N95 as a replacement for a dedicated camera - the
>>quality isn't too far off and most people wouldn't notice the difference.
>
> Well, there are squillions of apps in the appstore...

Yes, in the bloody Apple Store - but not in many other places.

> 153 books, 43 business tools, 49 educational tools, 139 entertainment
> tools, 49 finance apps, 406 games, 66 health & fitness apps, 51
> lifestyle apps, 47 music apps, 39 navigational tools, 21 news apps, 29
> photography related programs, 97 productivity tools, 51 reference
> tools, 34 social networking apps, 33 sports related, 51 travel, 164
> utilities and 7 weather apps this hour in the appstore. Which exact
> tool isn't available on the iPhone that you require, either paid for
> or free?

Homebrew or third party apps able to use the GPS hardware?

> Nokia's "Download!" utility was okay, if a bit clunky, but didn't
> feature that amount of content. And if I did download something from
> AllAboutSymbian and went through the process of trying to feed it to
> my n95 then most of the time the SIS file would say it had expired.
> However, I do know that all of the Apps listed above in the AppStore
> will actually work on my iPhone and if I upgrade to another one, or
> switch to an iPod Touch then I'm not going to have to buy them again
> like Nokia wanted everyone to do with their game offerings.

Wow, buy the iPhone and emerge from the chrysalis of corporate spin as an
Apple fanboy. Some Apple fans would buy an MP3 of Steve Jobs farting. Maybe
that's a bit unfair - it would have to be for sale on iTunes as well.

Gareth.