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- 04-23-2007, 03:37 PM #1SMSGuest
Mike M wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> AT&T Wireless is over. TDMA is over.
>>
>> navas, none of what you said changes the fact that Cingular ****ed
>> over every AT&T Wireless customer they acquired.
>>
>> Every single one.
>>
> They didn't **** me over and I was with AT&T wireless/whatever it was
> before that since 1992. I was ready for a new phone and a newer
> technology. And now I have Rollover, which I did NOT have before. So.
> They didn't **** over every former AT&T customer they had...
Whatever happened to last July's class action lawsuit on behalf of the
former AT&T wireless customers? Is it still winding its way through the
courts? Cingular asked for it to be dismissed of course, but I don't
think it was. Cingular's position is that all customers agreed to
binding arbitration.
"http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corporate/nw/?postId=7455"
I know that Cingular finally conceded defeat with the California PUC,
and paid the fine and penalties, and I thought that they were making an
effort to get all the lawsuits settled.
[Copied to alt.cellular.attws. Please post all alt.cellular.cingular
posts to alt.cellular.attws as well. The Cingular name is going away,
and alt.cellular.attws is the proper venue for posts regarding AT&T's
Wireless Service.]
› See More: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
- 04-23-2007, 04:15 PM #2John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:37:17 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Mike M wrote:
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> AT&T Wireless is over. TDMA is over.
>>>
>>> navas, none of what you said changes the fact that Cingular ****ed
>>> over every AT&T Wireless customer they acquired.
>>>
>>> Every single one.
>>>
>> They didn't **** me over and I was with AT&T wireless/whatever it was
>> before that since 1992. I was ready for a new phone and a newer
>> technology. And now I have Rollover, which I did NOT have before. So.
>> They didn't **** over every former AT&T customer they had...
>
>Whatever happened to last July's class action lawsuit on behalf of the
>former AT&T wireless customers?
An absurd abuse of process that would mostly just enrich lawyers.
>Is it still winding its way through the
>courts? Cingular asked for it to be dismissed of course, but I don't
>think it was. Cingular's position is that all customers agreed to
>binding arbitration.
>
>"http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corporate/nw/?postId=7455"
You don't know that status of significant litigation is disclosed in SEC
filings? Or you just haven't bothered to look?
>I know that Cingular finally conceded defeat with the California PUC,
>and paid the fine and penalties, and I thought that they were making an
>effort to get all the lawsuits settled.
Your usual spin notwithstanding, Cingular didn't admit any wrongdoing.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-23-2007, 06:00 PM #3SMSGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> Of course not. In fact it didn't treat any of them badly, honoring old
>>>> ATTWS service plans for considerable time even though it had no
>>>> obligation to do so.
>>> No obligation to do so?
>>>
>>> Yeah, those messy contracts those people signed--you can just ignore
>>> them anytime you want.
>> Contracts were in fact honored.
>>
>
> So you contradict yourself?
>
> Again?
Normally, part of the contract you sign states that service will
continue at the same rate, with the same terms, after the contract
obligation on the part of the subscriber. It's not like DSL or broadband
service where there is a period of introductory pricing after which you
know that the price will go up.
However this isn't a guarantee, and they do have the right to modify the
terms after the contract period is over (they can modify them during the
contract as well, but if they do that then they have to let you cancel
service without a termination fee).
As to the "8 pm Off Peak for Life," they didn't say whose life! The life
of the carrier? The carrier that made the promise doesn't exist anymore.
I have 8 pm Off Peak on Verizon, and they have kept this in effect for
many years after they stopped offering it. If I ever change plans then
I'll lose it. It's probably one of the features that I use the most, and
it enables me to get by with fewer peak minutes.
[Copied to alt.cellular.attws. Please post all alt.cellular.cingular
posts to alt.cellular.attws as well. The Cingular name is going away,
and alt.cellular.attws is the proper venue for posts regarding AT&T's
Wireless Service.]
- 04-24-2007, 11:20 AM #4SMSGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
jeremy wrote:
> You ignore the fact that AT&T/CINGULAR promised their customers that nothing
> would change. I have the notice, signed by both presidents.
>
> AT&T made much of "lifetime" perks, as long as the customer remained on his
> plan and paid the bill each month. Cingular, as successor, had a moral and,
> I believe, a legal obligation to uphold ATTWS' commitments.
What they did with the $5 surcharge for continuing on TDMA to the bitter
end violated that promise, but other than that they could argue that
customers that switched to a a GSM plan, for whatever reason, were no
longer on the plan they signed up for. On the other hand, the technology
change was not something that those AT&T customers asked for, so you
could argue that Cingular should have kept them on plans with the same
cost structure even when they moved them to GSM.
> I left--for Sprint--and couldn't have been happier. It's been 14 months
> now, and I have had no surprises and no fine print.
Good for you. For many of us, Sprint and T-Mobile are not viable
options. I.e., I just got pissed at PagePlus because by not adding money
within 4 months to my daughter's prepaid account, I had lost the $50
balance on the account (they restored it, but just this once). I looked
into prepaid from T-Mobile, but they still have no coverage (well 1 bar)
on the map for my area. Sprint also has big gaps in coverage. I know the
reasons for these gaps, as I follow the planning commission meetings
where Sprint and T-Mobile are routinely denied permits for new sites.
They have a double disadvantage in that they arrived on the scene after
cities got stricter about permits for sites, and they operate at 1900
MHz which has less range per site. Other cities in my area present
similar obstacles to the PCS carriers.
Many of us are stuck if we want the most complete coverage for our area.
In the SF Bay Area, Verizon has the best coverage by a wide margin, with
Cingular a distant second, and Sprint and T-Mobile an even further
distant third and fourth. I know that it some areas of the country this
is not the situation, but that's the fact of the matter in my area.
> Cingular COULD have turned us former ATTWS customers into boosters, instead
> of detractors.
Clearly they made the business decision to dump the low ARPU customers
because they knew that a sufficient number of those customers with
sweetheart deals would agree to the higher cost plans rather than leave.
After all, even the higher priced Cingular plans were no more expensive
than the offerings from the other carriers.
[Copied to alt.cellular.attws. Please post all alt.cellular.cingular
posts to alt.cellular.attws as well. The Cingular name is going away,
and alt.cellular.attws is the proper venue for posts regarding AT&T's
Wireless Service.]
- 04-24-2007, 04:18 PM #5jeremyGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> What they did with the $5 surcharge for continuing on TDMA to the bitter
> end violated that promise, but other than that they could argue that
> customers that switched to a a GSM plan, for whatever reason, were no
> longer on the plan they signed up for. On the other hand, the technology
> change was not something that those AT&T customers asked for, so you could
> argue that Cingular should have kept them on plans with the same cost
> structure even when they moved them to GSM.
>
I agree completely, in principle. But, what is TDMA vs. GSM to the
consumer? Merely a change in transmission protocol?
Cingular COULD HAVE offered an attractive upgrade path. Perhaps free or
subsidized GSM phones and a monthly price for service that reflected the
loyalty of ATTWS' long-time customers. I wonder, if AT&T were still around,
would they have been so indifferent?
Anyway, Cingular pissed me off. I'm sure that they offer a good level of
service, but I just didn't want to give them my business, so I jumped ship.
Fortunately, my wireless phone requirements are so modest that virtually any
carrier could have satisfied them. I rarely roam beyond 100 miles from
home. I need no data services. All I want to do is to make and receive
occasional calls, and to have free M2M. Sprint stepped up to the plate and
offered me free phones, no activation fees, excellent service here in
Philadelphia and no surprises. I pay my $90/month for three lines and I'm
perfectly happy.
I may not be the most desirable customer, in terms of my low usage, but
neither am I unprofitable. I make a few calls, pay my bill each month, make
very few requests of Customer Service, and life goes on.
Cingular didn't have to treat me as though I were a new customer, with no
track record. They made that decision and millions of us left--and will
probably never look back. I just cannot imagine how any business could turn
away millions of customers, but I won't lose any sleep over that question.
I'm extremely pleased with Sprint.
Sprint phoned me a few days ago, just to ask if everything was all right
with their service. That speaks volumes about the way they view their
customers, versus Cingular's view of them.
- 04-25-2007, 11:12 AM #6jeremyGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:462ef06e$0$16306>
> Hindsight is, of course, 20/20, but the AT&T TDMA
> customers had ample opportunity to switch to GSM at excellent "fire sale"
> rates before the merger- AT&T made it clear long before the merger that
> they were phasing out TDMA.
>
>
My recollection is that the GSM network was much less reliable than the TDMA
network, when it was first rolled out, and that ATTWS refused to let their
customers switch back if they were dissatisfied. I was planning to wait
until GSM had been rolled out more. ATTWS offered me a one-year contract
extension on TDMA at an excellent price, and I took it. By the end of that
term, Cingular was in charge--and I found my phones would shut down whenever
I drove beyond my home area, and it would take forever to log on to a tower
after turning my phone on.
I can't say whether Cingular's actions were legal, but they certainly seemed
to be stupid. All I wanted was a fair shake--and the Cingular people
treated me like I was a new customer, unentitled to any more discounts or
perks.
In any event, Sprint has proven themselves to be a very satisfactory
replacement, and I doubt that I will ever go back to Cingular/ATT. Life
goes on.
- 04-25-2007, 03:31 PM #7SMSGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
jeremy wrote:
> My recollection is that the GSM network was much less reliable than the TDMA
> network, when it was first rolled out, and that ATTWS refused to let their
> customers switch back if they were dissatisfied.
Yes, this is true. This is the issue that a relative of mine had. She
was conned into getting a new handset on the GSM network, and suddenly
her coverage became much poorer. Remember that the initial AT&T Wireless
GSM deployment was at 1900 MHz where they had 1900 MHz spectrum, and
they were running TDMA and AMPS on 800 MHz.
Remember what happened in Hawaii with AT&T Wireless. They were selling
the Nokia 3650 (GSM 900/1800/1900) to the customers they converted to
GSM because their GSM was at 1900 MHz. Then they began converting their
800 MHz spectrum to GSM, but all the people with the 3650 phones
couldn't access most of the GSM network, and had to buy new phones.
Voicestream's and Pac Bells original rollout of GSM in the U.S. was 1900
MHz only and spawned a lot of these so-called GSM 900/1800/1900 "World
Phones." Unfortunately, the legacy of these tri-band chip sets continues
with phones like the V3xx which is GSM 800/1800/1900, and is virtually
worthless in Europe and Asia, especially if you want to use a prepaid SIM.
- 04-28-2007, 11:48 AM #8John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:20:29 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Many of us are stuck if we want the most complete coverage for our area.
>In the SF Bay Area, Verizon has the best coverage by a wide margin, with
>Cingular a distant second, and Sprint and T-Mobile an even further
>distant third and fourth. I know that it some areas of the country this
>is not the situation, but that's the fact of the matter in my area.
In fact AT&T/Cingular has the best overall coverage in the San Francisco
Bay Area, followed by Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint (in that order).
That said, no one carrier has the best coverage in all areas, so you
should check coverage in areas you care about most before selecting a
carrier.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-28-2007, 11:53 AM #9John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:18:22 GMT, "jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote in
<OmvXh.4869$Zm.1317@trndny03>:
>"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> What they did with the $5 surcharge for continuing on TDMA to the bitter
>> end violated that promise, but other than that they could argue that
>> customers that switched to a a GSM plan, for whatever reason, were no
>> longer on the plan they signed up for. On the other hand, the technology
>> change was not something that those AT&T customers asked for, so you could
>> argue that Cingular should have kept them on plans with the same cost
>> structure even when they moved them to GSM.
>
>I agree completely, in principle. But, what is TDMA vs. GSM to the
>consumer? Merely a change in transmission protocol?
Actually a fundamentally different technology that was already being
phased out of ATTWS.
>Cingular COULD HAVE offered an attractive upgrade path.
It did, as good or better than any other carrier.
>Perhaps free or
>subsidized GSM phones
It did.
>and a monthly price for service that reflected the
>loyalty of ATTWS' long-time customers.
Makes no sense.
>I wonder, if AT&T were still around,
>would they have been so indifferent?
Almost certainly. ATTWS _isn't_ around, in part because it made bad
business deals. To be still be around it would have had to run its
business better.
>Anyway, Cingular pissed me off.
Clearly. But time now to move on and stop trolling here.
>Cingular didn't have to treat me as though I were a new customer, with no
>track record. They made that decision and millions of us left--and will
>probably never look back. I just cannot imagine how any business could turn
>away millions of customers, ...
It didn't do that. In fact it did a very good job of retaining ATTWS
customers.
>Sprint phoned me a few days ago, just to ask if everything was all right
>with their service. That speaks volumes about the way they view their
>customers, versus Cingular's view of them.
It's actually just a meaningless anecdote, and probably reflects how
Sprint is struggling compared to AT&T/Cingular.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-28-2007, 11:55 AM #10John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:33:06 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>As often happens in senior circles, she told her friends about
>10¢/minute prepaid on T-Mobile (which works fine in south Florida) and
>several of them also left AT&T/Cingular and they told their friends, and
>pretty soon the entire extended circle of friends had left for T-Mobile
>prepaid (the two 800 MHz carriers in south Florida were Cingular and
>AT&T and they had the lions share of customers because Voicestream and
>Verizon were stuck at the less desirable 1900 MHz and had no AMPS
>network).
The 1900 band is just as desirable as the 800 band.
>> Cingular COULD HAVE offered an attractive upgrade path. Perhaps free or
>> subsidized GSM phones and a monthly price for service that reflected the
>> loyalty of ATTWS' long-time customers. I wonder, if AT&T were still around,
>> would they have been so indifferent?
>
>They could have handled it better, that's for sure. ...
It actually handled it very well, as measured by any objective standard.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-28-2007, 11:56 AM #11John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:12:30 GMT, "jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote in
<2_LXh.9521$dM1.5089@trndny07>:
>I can't say whether Cingular's actions were legal, but they certainly seemed
>to be stupid. All I wanted was a fair shake--and the Cingular people
>treated me like I was a new customer, unentitled to any more discounts or
>perks.
Cingular give you a fair shake. What you wanted was special treatment.
>In any event, Sprint has proven themselves to be a very satisfactory
>replacement, and I doubt that I will ever go back to Cingular/ATT. Life
>goes on.
Then why are you still trolling here?
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-28-2007, 11:57 AM #12John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:31:04 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>... Unfortunately, the legacy of these tri-band chip sets continues
>with phones like the V3xx which is GSM 800/1800/1900, and is virtually
>worthless in Europe and Asia, especially if you want to use a prepaid SIM.
In fact tri-band GSM 800/1800/1900 works quite well in most areas
outside of the USA.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 04-29-2007, 03:10 PM #13SMSGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
jeremy wrote:
> I just don't get it. Why all this animosity against Sprint? When I think
> of all the Cingular problems, Sprint seems like a breath of fresh air.
Sprint's biggest problem is coverage. They have two strikes against
them. First they are PCS, which requires more towers than cellular to
achieve the same coverage area. Second, they entered the game later than
the cellular carriers, and weren't able to site all those towers before
local governments started regulating them.
On paper, Sprint looks great. But look at all the independent surveys of
the carriers. In my area, Sprint ranks as low as Cingular and T-Mobile.
Consumers have wised up when it comes to choosing carriers. They no
longer look only at price and features, and they now understand the huge
differences in quality of coverage. In my area, the San Francisco Bay
Area, Verizon is so far ahead of the other three carriers, that there is
no competition when it comes to choosing a carrier based on coverage.
The only reason anyone chooses Cingular is because they want GSM roaming
in Europe and Asia, or because they want a particular handset that isn't
available from Verizon. Other than that, the differences in coverage are
so significant, than Verizon is the carrier of choice. Sprint and
T-Mobile customers are pretty rare.
[Copied to alt.cellular.attws. Please post all alt.cellular.cingular
posts to alt.cellular.attws as well. The Cingular name is going away,
and alt.cellular.attws is the proper venue for posts regarding AT&T's
Wireless Service.]
- 04-29-2007, 05:07 PM #14Todd AllcockGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
At 29 Apr 2007 14:10:41 -0700 SMS wrote:
> Consumers have wised up when it comes to choosing carriers. They no
> longer look only at price and features, and they now understand the
> huge differences in quality of coverage.
And yet only 30% of cellular customers choose Verizon, the only carrier
you deem worthy of choosing.
So, using your own argument, either 70% of cellular customers are idiots,
70% don't really care about coverage, or, just possibly, Verizon's
coverage isn't quite as superior to all others as you believe.
> Sprint and T-Mobile customers are pretty rare.
They must all be hiding from you then, because combined they hold roughly
35% of the cellular market.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
- 04-29-2007, 06:04 PM #15SMSGuest
Re: Cingular/ATTWS Unlimited 8PM Off Peak "For Life"
Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 29 Apr 2007 14:10:41 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
>> Consumers have wised up when it comes to choosing carriers. They no
>> longer look only at price and features, and they now understand the
>> huge differences in quality of coverage.
>
>
> And yet only 30% of cellular customers choose Verizon, the only carrier
> you deem worthy of choosing.
I was talking about in my area, the San Francisco Bay Area. As the
surveys show, in other areas the different carriers are not as disparate
in terms of coverage. Yes, Verizon does lead in almost every market, but
not by such a wide margin.
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