Apple cuts back production (iPhone)

At 11 Aug 2007 01:49:20 -0700 Tinman wrote:

> I just found out that my iPhone doesn't count as a subsidized
> phone purchase with at&t. In other words I can get any deal, right now,
that
> at&t currently offers to new subscribers on another phone (I don't have
to
> add another line). I verified this at my local at&t CS, at an at&t store,

> and on at&t's Website (it shows my iPhone line as being eligible for
> upgrades). Indeed I have the Website open and am deciding on a phone.
The
> only drawback is that I have to extend my contract by another 3 weeks
(no
> biggie, and if I knew this when I bough the iPhone I would have done it
> then).


Brilliant- a nice way to get an unsubsidized phone subsidized.


> So I just need to decide whether to get one of the free phones to keep
as a
> spare, a Blackjack to Ebay (unopened), or something else. Might even go
for
> a Curve and Ebay that. They seem to be going for $500 on Ebay, and I
can get
> it for $250.

The Curve is pretty hot right now- if they really are fetching $500,
strike while the iron is hot. You could always buy a cheap GoPhone down
the road if you needed a spare phone for whatever reason. (I.e. the beach,
or any environmentyou weren't comfortable dragging a $600 phone!)

> Either way getting the extra phone helps mitigate the cost of
> the iPhone, IMO.

Agreed.

> > I don't have an anti-Apple sentiment.
>
> The reason I mentioned that is because you seem to dwell on the iPhone.

Perhaps "dwell" was fair. Admittedly I was very disappointed by it in
some ways, but more like a large diamond with an obvious flaw. Apple, IMO,
got it 90% exactly right, then blew the other 10% so badly!

Plus, I guess after many years in sales and marketing, I'm just world-
weary and jaded enough to grit my teeth whenever I hear "revolutionary"
or "industry-changing" attached to a product... and people actually
believe it.

And I'm not blaming Apple for the hype- they've been brilliant- big
announcement and demo 6 months before launch, then shut the hell up and
let the blogs, word of mouth and the media do the rest.

> But
> I didn't mean to imply you were a direct opposite of, say, none/Oxford.
>
Thanks for that, anyway! ;-)

> I am sure you can see that some people seem to like to bash it for the
sake
> of bashing it. That just seems pointless to me.

True- every 800-lb. gorilla gets that though. For example, Microsoft
certainly doesn't bat 1.000, but if they were as crappy as bashers say,
they would be in the position they are now.

> Either buy it or not. And if
> not move on. And I am no Apple apologist--I don't even own anything
Apple
> besides the iPhone.

If Apple played their cards right, you will soon enough! ;-) Consumer
satisfaction with the iPod has helped drive Mac sales.


> No, it's when you use statements like smoke-and-mirrors (which implies
> something that doesn't work at all),

Nah, I meant more in the Wizard of Oz "ignore the man behind the curtain"
sense- it's not that it doesn't work well, just that, IMO, it's purpose
is "disguised." Think about it -Apple was willing to put up with AT&T's
network, corporate red-tape, salespeople, billing systems, customer
service etc. but the drew the line at the ACTIVATION process? Please!
As convenient as it may be, it smacks of "look how different it all is.
It's unlike any other phone you bought." (And, to nitpick, the lowly
prepaid Tracfone has been web-activated for years- you buy one at a
retailer, take it home, and activate it over the web. Sure, you actually
have to type the phone's information in rather than plug it in via USB,
but even the idea of avoiding sales reps or in-store activations isn't
really new.

> and start threads wondering where all
> the iPhones are that has me wondering why this product has caught your
ire
> so much.


That wasn't ire, but actual curiosity. I'd recently read in RCR News (a
cellular trade paper) the AT&T breakdown of initial iPhone sales into
cateories (i.e. 40% were "new" customers, etc.) and was interested that
the "majority" of sales (AT&T didn't specify a %) were on the east and
west coasts. Living in Denver, and not seeing any, I got to thinking,
well, where are they?

For the record, although I've ceratinly participated in many, that is the
only thread I've started regarding the iPhone. If I had "ire" I'd be
stirring the pot up a bit more.

I can see in retrospect, however, why my thread might have looked
negative if it showed up during that "AT&T says 140k Apple says 270k"
nonsense (if, which you'll recall, I was firmly on the side of "no big
deal/non-issue" not "SEC should investigate!"

> I do.

I know- I just can't resist when lobbed such an easy straight-line!

> The reason I came to the Cingular NG was primarily because of the
> iPhone announcement. But I didn't blindly buy it, nor blindly trash it.
I
> discussed it here (and elsewhere: despite what it seems like lately
this
> group really doesn't have much iPhone discussion).

Better than before, when it had virtually none at all except "what should
we call the broup from now on?"

> I also criticised it
> here, and at one point doubted I could ever give up my Treo for it. But
I
> did, and it's working out well.


I'm glad it is, and like I said- a high tide lifts all boats. Look what
function Opera's added to Mini 4 and plans for Opera Mobile 9- an iPhone
like browsing experience- it renders the "real" page in minitaure then
zooms into what you highlight. Simple, obvious, easy. Why did it take
Apple to point out what we all do with our eyes naturally? Take in a
whole image then focus on the part that interests us!


> But what I meant about open mind was discussing the iPhone here in an
open
> forum (OK, newsgroups!). It would be very easy to stick to discussions
on
> iPhone forums, but I do like to hear constructive criticism.

Agreed. I have no interest in the iPhone except where it intersects the
cellular industry so iPhone forums don't interest me (I don't need to
know about the great new widget, tips and tricks for use, what brand of
skin is best, etc.) If I were truly a basher or troublemaker, THAT'S
where I'd go.

> Again, didn't mean to paint you as some kind of Anti-Apple crusader
(nor am
> I anything like the Apple-or-nothing crowd).


Fair enough. Like I tell Kurt- I'm glad you enjoy it. Hopefully it's
improvements will rub off on other devices (seemingly Opera already got
the message!) or that Apple will listen to feedback and incorporate the
few missing desirable features in the next gen.

--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures or double
as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for all the bells and whistles,
but I could communicate better with ACTUAL bells and whistles."
-Bill Maher 9/25/2003

---

› See More: Apple cuts back production (iPhone)

In article <[email protected]>,
Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Fact is, you're right. The one that I played with for a couple of
> >> hours was bulky, horribly slow and the sound quality was less than
> >> ideal.
> >
> > There you go again <g>
>
> Go again? I voiced my experience with it, moron.

Name calling = desperation

<plonk>

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

In article <[email protected]>,
"Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Kurt <[email protected]> wrote in news:labolide-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >> > In article <[email protected]>,
> >> > Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Kurt <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> >> news:[email protected]:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But you miss the point the user finally gets a product that works
> >> >> > great right out of the box and activates practically instantly.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Finally? EVERY cell phone I have ever owned worked greast right out
> >> of
> >> >> the box and EVERY phone/PDA has activated quicker than the iTunes
> >> >> process- I walked out of the store with an activated and fully
> >> >> functional phone..
> >> >
> >> > Both the LG for my wife and my Treo required time on the phonw with
> >> > Cingular. I can only speak from experience.
> >>
> >> Then you admit that your statement that ease of activation and full
> >> functionality out of the box FINALLY coming to the market was patently
> >> false and nothing more than a poor attempt at Apple hype?
> >
> > Don't put words in my mouth. I said I spoke from my experience, but
> > others have had the same. Do a like Google action and hit the forums,
> > and you'll find many, many others that have had problems.
> >
> > Activation required a lot of phone time (bought online).
> > I had Motorolas before that that were time consuming also.
> > I've never had a set up as easy as with the iPhone. They carefully
> > thought the activation part through.
> >
> > I didn't even mention that the Treo had hardware problems out of the box.
> > Needed to get another one. Had to jump through hoops to get another.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > No smoke and mirrors about this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Agreed- it is simply fanatic blindness to the real world.
> >> >
> >> > Fact is, you'd hate it anyway.
> >>
> >> Fact is, you're right. The one that I played with for a couple of hours
> >> was bulky, horribly slow and the sound quality was less than ideal.
> >
> > There you go again <g>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Similarly, the Toyota Prius used a goofy push-button starter for
> >> the
> >> >> >> same reason- to pound the idea into your head the first time you
> >> use
> >> >> >> it that it isn't like any other car, not because that method had
> >> any
> >> >> >> particular advantage over the traditional one...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You obviously aren't a collector car guy. Push button starters go
> >> way
> >> >> > back and have a certain cache. They are just as efficient. Fun,
> >> too.
> >> >> > We like fun.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And, as a bonus, it prevents Apple stores from having to become
> >> AT&T
> >> >> >> agents (faxing contracts, calling activations in, etc.)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Other than moving the lines quicker on openng weekend, iTunes
> >> >> >> activation is actually a pretty stupid idea. It would seem to me
> >> >> >> that in-store phone activation would make more sense since any
> >> PHONE
> >> >> >> related issues or questions could be handled at the store by
> >> >> >> (hopefully) knowledgeable individuals in a two way dialog, rather
> >> >> >> than ticking boxes for plns and add-ons on your computer.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I've never done an easier phone activation than through Apple. I
> >> did
> >> >> > have a question (because of adding to family plan) and phone
> >> support
> >> >> > was quick and knowledgeable. Activating throiugh iTunes took 2
> >> >> > minutes. Treo through Cingular was a bit of an ordeal.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> iTunes would be used for the "iPod" portion of the device since
> >> >> >> there's no other real way to get your music on it anyway, so
> >> >> >> obviously it's going to get hooked up to a computer!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I am seeing a whole new group of people actually "using" the
> >> >> >> > iPhone. Many of them are young, and not your traditional
> >> >> >> > geek/gadget buyer type of person.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Again, as I mentioned earlier- I've yet to see a single iPhone
> >> user
> >> >> >> outside of an Apple store, so I can't describe the typical iPhone
> >> >> >> user (except maybe as "elusive," or "nebulous.")
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My whole circle of business peers either have, or will be getting
> >> >> > iPhones. Most of these were Treo users.
> >> >>
> >> >> And yet here it is, a month and a half after rollout, and there are a
> >> >> number of us that have yet to see our first one on the street
> >> >
> >> > Maybe you need to get out more often. <g>
> >>
> >> Yeah- the thousands of people I come in contact with every week is
> >> probably too small a population base.
> >
> > I'll hold my comment on that one <g>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > If someone really wants an iPhone that's what they'll get it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My point was that I'm not sure many really want an iPhone, but
> >> rather
> >> >> >> might want to do a few things that it does, and for far less than
> >> >> >> $500.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I bought a Treo 650 two years ago with Cingular 2 year contract.
> >> Cost
> >> >> > me $399 minus $50 "rebate" Visa debit card. Spent a another $200 or
> >> so
> >> >> > on software. Was originally paying $40 for unlimited data.
> >> >> > You tell me what really cost more.
> >> >>
> >> >> Two years ago is meaningless data- as the market matured, prices for
> >> >> like technology declined. The fact is that today, ATT has no
> >> >> PDA/smartphone over $300 listed on their website, and many of them
> >> >> (including the $100 phones) are as fully functional as your 650.
> >> >>
> >> >> Spending money on software is also immaterial, unless the iPhone
> >> >> came loaded with like software and the purchase of that same software
> >> >> would be necessary to make today's smartphone as fully functional.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Apple might have capitalized on the lousy job the wireless
> >> industry
> >> >> >> had done promoting it's features, but the rest of the industry,
> >> >> >> particularly carriers without the iPhone, will fix that going
> >> >> >> forward.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Good thoughts, but most of current manufacturers have been foisting
> >> >> > mediocre products on us for years. Motorola had it's day. Someone
> >> >> > needed to shake things up.
> >> >>
> >> >> A fraction of a percentage of the market is hardly shaking things up.
> >> >>
> >> > I think you get my point but just can't concede.
> >>
> >> I don't get your point- it has settled into the status of a rarely seen
> >> and rarely sold phone. Opening numbers were no indication of sales
> >> going forward. You are the one not conceding.
> >
> > Like I said, let's see what you say next quarter. I'm buying one right
> > after this post.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > We already lost the naysayers up here who said it was going to flop
> >> the
> >> > day it came out. We'll have others like you hammering it until the
> >> next
> >> > quarterly numbers are released.
> >> >
> >>
> >> When it will still have less than 1% of the american market if they hit
> >> their projection.
> >>
> >> In the meantime, the Razr 2 comes at the end of the month- a flip phone
> >> with a larger video screen on the outside. Want to bet which phone
> >> sells more by the end of the year? Here's a hint- the Razr is starting
> >> at $250 and will be down to under $100 by Halloween.
> >
> > Motorola is playing catchup at this point. They need to practically give
> > these away in order to get sales.
> >
> > A friend of mine just got a Motorola Q. Expensive and worst phone he's
> > ever had. Was expecting a really good smartphone.
> >
> >
> Expensive ? With verizon and a 2yr contract it's 179.99
> Lot cheaper then 500-600 for the Iflop.
>
I'm taking about an ordinary non-tech person who thought he was getting
a good smartphone. He told me how much he paid. I'm not going to call
him a liar. Cheaper? So what? He hated the functionality.

If getting a good plan and a good phone requires the kind of research
and effort that one does to buy decent plane tickets these days, it's no
wonder the industry needs the shakeup.

I probably shouldn't mention that he is getting a <shudder> iPhone. :-)

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Kurt <[email protected]> wrote in news:labolide-EE42A9.15434511082007
@news.giganews.com:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >> Fact is, you're right. The one that I played with for a couple of
>> >> hours was bulky, horribly slow and the sound quality was less than
>> >> ideal.
>> >
>> > There you go again <g>
>>
>> Go again? I voiced my experience with it, moron.
>
> Name calling = desperation
>
> <plonk>
>

I would have expected no less- his grasping at straws was reaching its
limits.

Scott wrote:

> Finally? EVERY cell phone I have ever owned worked greast right out of
> the box and EVERY phone/PDA has activated quicker than the iTunes
> process- I walked out of the store with an activated and fully
> functional phone..

LOL, it is rather amusing how much iTunes activation of the iPhone is
mentioned, when in fact it's not nearly as convenient of having a phone
activated in the store.

> And yet here it is, a month and a half after rollout, and there are a
> number of us that have yet to see our first one on the street

It is very strange. I live about one mile from Apple HQ, and I've yet to
see anyone in a restaurant, store, etc. around here using an iPhone.

I think that one of the reasons that sales have stagnated is because of
the AT&T wireless network. I was at someone's new house in Lafayette
(California) yesterday, and he's a total gadget freak, he'd been a
Cingular user for a long time, and I was sure he'd have an iPhone. When
I walked in, there was a bag from the Verizon store on a table. He had
been planning to buy an iPhone, until he found that there was no AT&T
coverage at his new house, at all. I don't know if AT&T's wireless
coverage is as bad in other areas of the country as it is in the San
Francisco Bay Area, but it does point out why Apple first tried to get
Verizon to take the iPhone.

In article <[email protected]>, SMS
<[email protected]> wrote:

> It is very strange. I live about one mile from Apple HQ, and I've yet to
> see anyone in a restaurant, store, etc. around here using an iPhone.

Bunk. You see what you want to see I guess. Or you don't want to see
them. I live in the Washington DC area and have seen some every day.
Even saw someone drop one today.

--
Charles

In article <130820071939015473%[email protected]>,
Charles <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, SMS
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It is very strange. I live about one mile from Apple HQ, and I've yet to
> > see anyone in a restaurant, store, etc. around here using an iPhone.
>
> Bunk. You see what you want to see I guess. Or you don't want to see
> them. I live in the Washington DC area and have seen some every day.
> Even saw someone drop one today.

Yes. Funny how people see what they want to see.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Charles wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, SMS
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It is very strange. I live about one mile from Apple HQ, and I've yet to
>> see anyone in a restaurant, store, etc. around here using an iPhone.
>
> Bunk. You see what you want to see I guess. Or you don't want to see
> them. I live in the Washington DC area and have seen some every day.
> Even saw someone drop one today.

I always notice people's phones. Maybe the stores and restaurants I go
to are not places where iPhone people hang out (Whole Foods, Costco,
Trader Joes, Target, and mainly Korean, Japanese, Afghan, Chinese, and
Thai restaurants).

I think the main reason I don't see the iPhone is because AT&T Wireless
is not popular in my area due to coverage issues.