REVIEW: The N95 and the Ocean arent as good as iPhone

[email protected] wrote:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._luxury_phones
>
> "Don't pay it any attention {iPhone complaints}:
>
> the iPhone is the best phone you can buy right now."

Some of the flaws that the author points out are very real:

-Very slow web browsing on cellular network
-Poor battery life
-No GPS

The iPhone is a great web browser on Wi-Fi. It's almost unusable on
Edge. It's not good for doing text messaging or e-mail because it lacks
a keyboard.

And of course if you actually want to make calls outside the urban and
suburban areas, you'd better carry along a CDMA/AMPS phone. But no one
every claimed the iPhone's strong point was the phone functionality. I
was just down south of Carmel along California Highway 1. I was
surprised to have relatively good service all the way to Big Sur. The
maps for Verizon and AT&T show a stark difference in coverage, at least
for subscribers with the original America's Choice plan, which has more
roaming capability.

---

› See More: REVIEW: The N95 and the Ocean arent as good as iPhone

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:35:16 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._luxury_phones
>>
>> "Don't pay it any attention {iPhone complaints}:
>>
>> the iPhone is the best phone you can buy right now."
>
>Some of the flaws that the author points out are very real:
>
>-Very slow web browsing on cellular network
>-Poor battery life
>-No GPS
>
>The iPhone is a great web browser on Wi-Fi. It's almost unusable on
>Edge.

BALONEY - its slow on graphics, works very well for email with EDGE,
and it also varies depending on the local EDGE throughput


It's not good for doing text messaging or e-mail because it lacks
a keyboard.

BALONEY - touchscreen keyboard of iPhone works great after just a
little practice,

>
>And of course if you actually want to make calls outside the urban and
>suburban areas, you'd better carry along a CDMA/AMPS phone. But no one
>every claimed the iPhone's strong point was the phone functionality. I
>was just down south of Carmel along California Highway 1. I was
>surprised to have relatively good service all the way to Big Sur. The
>maps for Verizon and AT&T show a stark difference in coverage, at least
>for subscribers with the original America's Choice plan, which has more
>roaming capability.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:35:16 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._luxury_phones
> >>
> >> "Don't pay it any attention {iPhone complaints}:
> >>
> >> the iPhone is the best phone you can buy right now."
> >
> >Some of the flaws that the author points out are very real:
> >
> >-Very slow web browsing on cellular network
> >-Poor battery life
> >-No GPS
> >
> >The iPhone is a great web browser on Wi-Fi. It's almost unusable on
> >Edge.
>
> BALONEY - its slow on graphics, works very well for email with EDGE,
> and it also varies depending on the local EDGE throughput
>
>
> It's not good for doing text messaging or e-mail because it lacks
> a keyboard.
>
> BALONEY - touchscreen keyboard of iPhone works great after just a
> little practice,
>
A whole lot easier than my Treo (just sold on Ebay).

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

"SMS" wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._luxury_phones
>>
>> "Don't pay it any attention {iPhone complaints}:
>>
>> the iPhone is the best phone you can buy right now."
>
> Some of the flaws that the author points out are very real:
>
> -Very slow web browsing on cellular network

Still faster than EV-DO Treos (not that I would *want* to browse the Web on
any Treo anymore).


> -Poor battery life

Nope. For a device running WiFi, BT, and cellular radios all of the time it
does better than I expected--much better. And this is with running those
radios 24/7--plus an SSH server. I can increase battery life by shutting
down SSH and WiFi when not needed. But why should I bother if I am not
running out of juice as it is?


> -No GPS

Neither do millions of other cellphones. I never had it in a cellphone,
where it did me any good anyway. And I can say I no longer take my dedicated
GPS along on trips.

I am not saying I wouldn't like a real GPS, but not if it meant a thicker
device or a compromise somewhere else.


>
> The iPhone is a great web browser on Wi-Fi. It's almost unusable on Edge.

What? My EDGE speeds vary from 120 to 185 kbps. How this equates to "almost
unusable" is beyond me. I was at IAH airport and the WiFi access at the time
(crowded airport) was actually slower than EDGE. And let's keep things in
perspective: Last stats I read showed 1 out of 3 Internet users in the U.S.
use dialup. If that's true, or even if it's 1:4, then tens of millions of
people find the Web usable at speeds far lower than EDGE.

Moreover there is almost always an at&t EDGE connection (assuming there is
service in the area). With Sprint or Verizon when there is no EV-DO, which
includes a significant portion of the country, you drop down to 1x, which
truly is pitiful.

Methinks had Apple gone with Verizon they would have gone with EV-DO Rev. 0
(not much faster than EDGE). But that would only work in areas where there
is EV-DO coverage. So instead of iPhone users having to contend with either
EDGE or WiFi they would have to contend with 1x, EV-DO, or WiFi. We'd be
hearing about a different list of complaints had that occurred.

From a personal standpoint, considering Verizon acts like the area I live in
doesn't exit (no service whatsoever: NE AZ), I am *thrilled* Apple went with
at&t (whose service has been much better than I had expected, and this is a
supposedly poor coverage area).


--
Mike

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> And of course if you actually want to make calls outside the urban and
> suburban areas, you'd better carry along a CDMA/AMPS phone. But no one
> every claimed the iPhone's strong point was the phone functionality. I was
> just down south of Carmel along California Highway 1. I was surprised to
> have relatively good service all the way to Big Sur. The maps for Verizon
> and AT&T show a stark difference in coverage, at least for subscribers
> with the original America's Choice plan, which has more roaming
> capability.

All this is very true. However you're making too much of it all.

1. The next generation of iPhone will almost certainly be HSDPA. No one with
half a brain buys the first version of a product like the iPhone, you always
wait for the second version. GPS will probably take a while.

2. While AT&T/Cingular has poor coverage in the areas you state, everyone
signing up with AT&T/Cingular knows full well that they have poorer coverage
than some other carriers. The iPhone users is rarely going to leave the city
environment, and is in fact no worse off than any other AT&T/Cingular user.
Furthermore, some of the coverage you claim is AMPS coverage, which can go
away in 2008, and even if Verizon had taken the iPhone when offered, they
would not have included AMPS capability.

3. Edge is fast enough for e-mail, and web browsing, while slow, is still
adequate. It's better than a dial-up modem, despite what the reviewers say.

4. The lack of a keyboard is only a problem for those that use the iPhone
for serious e-mailing or text intensive applications, and since these users
are probably buying a Blackberry or Treo or Ocean, rather than the iPhone,
it's a self-correcting problem. These same users most likely have a need for
a device with full PDA functionality, and would not buy an iPhone no matter
what. See http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14042/53/. I'm surprised that
there has not been any add-on Bluetooth keyboard made available for the
iPhone, but maybe it doesn't support keyboards.

5. The battery life is as good as you can expect because Wi-Fi uses a lot of
power. Since the typical usage model is to charge it whenever at home or
work, it's not an issue. It's similar to most of the other PDA type of
phones.

The subject of this thread is very misleading. The iPhone is "good" for
certain things (web browsing), while the other devices mentioned are better
in other ways. No one device is perfect for everyone. Apple wanted a device
for the masses, not just for techies.

"Tom Delaney" wrote:
> "SMS" wrote:
>
>> And of course if you actually want to make calls outside the urban and
>> suburban areas, you'd better carry along a CDMA/AMPS phone. But no one
>> every claimed the iPhone's strong point was the phone functionality. I
>> was just down south of Carmel along California Highway 1. I was surprised
>> to have relatively good service all the way to Big Sur. The maps for
>> Verizon and AT&T show a stark difference in coverage, at least for
>> subscribers with the original America's Choice plan, which has more
>> roaming capability.
>
> All this is very true. However you're making too much of it all.
>
> 1. The next generation of iPhone will almost certainly be HSDPA. No one
> with half a brain buys the first version of a product like the iPhone, you
> always wait for the second version.

If no one bought anything there wouldn't be a second version of anything to
buy.

I have rarely regretted being an early adopter. While you are sitting there
on the sidelines I am actually using the device. And the iPhone is by far
the best early-adopter device I have ever owned. And when you finally come
around you will no doubt benefit from the findings that I and others have
already been through. When you come for help, be sure to preface your query
with "I know you all only have half a brain, but..." See how far that gets
you.

In addition, I get to see the device grow. Already my iPhone is doing 3x
more that when I got it. It's almost like a different device now.

Moreover, I needed a new phone as my Treo 650 was two years old and dieing.
I waited two weeks for the iPhone to see if any last-minute gotchas
appeared. It didn't happen. Indeed just the opposite: I saw overwhelming
positive feedback from actual owners. Yes there are some who didn't like
it--I wouldn't expect a 100% satisfaction rate with any new product. But by
far the naysayers are non-owners, not actual users.


> GPS will probably take a while.
>
> 2. While AT&T/Cingular has poor coverage in the areas you state, everyone
> signing up with AT&T/Cingular knows full well that they have poorer
> coverage than some other carriers.

And better than others. There is zero Verizon coverage in my city for
instance. No matter whom Apple chose as the carrier there would be people
complaining (like me, had they chosen Verizon).

Lots of people, including me, have actually switched to at&t solely due to
the iPhone.

A heck of a lot of people outside the US seem to be buying the iPhone now
too: I get a frequent of hacking questions from non-US iPhone owners (and,
believe it or not, teens--where the heck are they getting the money from?).
Turbo Sims are sold out (I know of one person who bought one for $500, just
to be able to use his iPhone!).


>
> 3. Edge is fast enough for e-mail, and web browsing, while slow, is still
> adequate. It's better than a dial-up modem, despite what the reviewers
> say.

I get 3-4 times the speed of dialup when using EDGE. Of course I am only on
EDGE 10% of the time, if that.


>
> 4. The lack of a keyboard is only a problem for those that use the iPhone
> for serious e-mailing or text intensive applications, and since these
> users are probably buying a Blackberry or Treo or Ocean, rather than the
> iPhone,

Perhaps. But as for me I am now just as fast--or faster--at typing on my
iPhone than on my Treo. If you just type away and let auto-correct do its
thing you can get to amazing WPM speeds (faster than I would have imagined
possible on a touch-screen device). It took about a week, and a few
gotta-have-it-now emails to get up to speed.

This would likely not have been possible had Apple gone with a resistive
touch screen, such as that on Treos and many other devices. The capacitive
touch screen responds very quickly, and to the lightest touch. After using
my iPhone I find it harder to use the touch screen on my Treo (and my GPS).
As an added benefit the screen clarity is the best I've ever seen in a
mobile device.


> it's a self-correcting problem. These same users most likely have a need
> for a device with full PDA functionality, and would not buy an iPhone no
> matter what.

At least half of the 100 or so iPhone owners I have interacted with had a
history of smart/PDA phones--including me.


>
> The subject of this thread is very misleading. The iPhone is "good" for
> certain things (web browsing), while the other devices mentioned are
> better in other ways. No one device is perfect for everyone. Apple wanted
> a device for the masses, not just for techies.

Well the techies are on to it: Perl, Python, Ruby, Apache, SSH and much more
are available for the iPhone right now. I use several of those myself. The
iPhone is a techies dream!


--
Mike

On 2007-08-24, Tinman <[email protected]> wrote:
> What? My EDGE speeds vary from 120 to 185 kbps.
[...]
> Methinks had Apple gone with Verizon they would have gone with EV-DO Rev. 0
> (not much faster than EDGE). But that would only work in areas where there
> is EV-DO coverage. So instead of iPhone users having to contend with either
> EDGE or WiFi they would have to contend with 1x, EV-DO, or WiFi. We'd be
> hearing about a different list of complaints had that occurred.

That's not right. EDGE runs about the same speed as 1xRTT. EV-DO Rev. 0
has a theoretical download speed of 2.4 Mbps and would regularly run
at over 1 Mbps where I live. EV-DO Rev. A mostly speeds up the uplink.
And there's about zero complexity in the choice between EV-DO and 1x
(or EDGE and HSDPA on AT&T, for that matter). If the higher speed
service is available it gets used, if it isn't available the lower
speed service gets used.

I'd also dispute the notion that Apple would have gone with EV-DO Rev. 0
rather than EV-DO Rev. A based solely on the fact that if they'd done
a phone for Verizon they would have been using a Qualcomm chipset, and
Qualcomm chipsets support EV-DO Rev. A. In fact if they'd gone with
a Qualcomm chipset for the AT&T phone they'd likely be supporting
HSDPA now since Qualcomm has until fairly recently been very close
to the sole source for HSDPA chipsets (and they'd also likely now be
having trouble shipping phones in the US due to Qualcomm chipset patent
problems).

Dennis Ferguson

"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:
> On 2007-08-24, Tinman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What? My EDGE speeds vary from 120 to 185 kbps.
> [...]
>> Methinks had Apple gone with Verizon they would have gone with EV-DO Rev.
>> 0
>> (not much faster than EDGE). But that would only work in areas where
>> there
>> is EV-DO coverage. So instead of iPhone users having to contend with
>> either
>> EDGE or WiFi they would have to contend with 1x, EV-DO, or WiFi. We'd be
>> hearing about a different list of complaints had that occurred.
>
> That's not right. EDGE runs about the same speed as 1xRTT.

<sigh> What rock have you been living under?

I have done extensive speed tests between my Treo under 1x and iPhone under
EDGE. Treo gets 32-52 kbps and the iPhone gets 120-180 kbps. plenty of
people have had the same results as me. And the lag time with 1x was at
least double that of EDGE.

Trust me, I only expected a marginal increase over 1x with EDGE and was
pleasantly surprised to find out I was wrong.


> EV-DO Rev. 0
> has a theoretical download speed of 2.4 Mbps and would regularly run
> at over 1 Mbps where I live.

I am talking real-world experiance. Plenty of people do not even come close
to 1 mbps on Rev 0. Indeed there have been side by side tests of a Rev 0
Treo Vs. an iPhone on EDGE and the iPhone won.

Speaking of handsets here, not data cards.


> And there's about zero complexity in the choice between EV-DO and 1x

Who was talking about complexity?


> (or EDGE and HSDPA on AT&T, for that matter). If the higher speed
> service is available it gets used, if it isn't available the lower
> speed service gets used.

No need to state the obvious.


>
> I'd also dispute the notion that Apple would have gone with EV-DO Rev. 0
> rather than EV-DO Rev. A

Plenty of brandnew phones do not support Rev A. The wonder phone "Ocean"
doesn't even do Rev A at this time.

I stand by my opinion.


> based solely on the fact that if they'd done
> a phone for Verizon they would have been using a Qualcomm chipset, and
> Qualcomm chipsets support EV-DO Rev. A. In fact if they'd gone with
> a Qualcomm chipset for the AT&T phone they'd likely be supporting
> HSDPA now since Qualcomm has until fairly recently been very close
> to the sole source for HSDPA chipsets (and they'd also likely now be
> having trouble shipping phones in the US due to Qualcomm chipset patent
> problems).

Apple has already stated why they went with the chipset they chose, and
their reasons have been verified.

You will have to do much better than that to convince me Apple would have
gone with Rev A. It's moot anyway because a CDMA version is a long ways off.


--
Mike

On aug. 24, 03:46, Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:35:16 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > >[email protected] wrote:
>
> > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._luxury_phones
>
> > >> "Don't pay it any attention {iPhonecomplaints}:
>
> > >> theiPhoneis the best phone you can buy right now."
>
> > >Some of the flaws that the author points out are very real:
>
> > >-Very slow web browsing on cellular network
> > >-Poor battery life
> > >-No GPS
>
> > >TheiPhoneis a great web browser on Wi-Fi. It's almost unusable on
> > >Edge.
>
> > BALONEY - its slow on graphics, works very well for email with EDGE,
> > and it also varies depending on the local EDGE throughput
>
> > It's not good for doing text messaging or e-mail because it lacks
> > a keyboard.
>
> > BALONEY - touchscreen keyboard ofiPhoneworks great after just a
> > little practice,
>
> A whole lot easier than my Treo (just sold on Ebay).
>
> --
> To reply by email, remove the word "space"


Hey Guys !


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