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  1. #1
    4phun
    Guest
    Good article from Information Week

    Verizon's $399 Price Tag Of The Palm 755p Is Out Of Touch With Reality
    Posted by Eric Zeman, Dec 17, 2007 01:10 PM


    Can they really get such money for crippled crap 'smartphone' phones
    when a buyer could get a real iPhone instead for the same price?

    http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...OSKHSCJUNN2JVN




    See More: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of theiPhone?




  2. #2
    digi
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of theiPhone?

    On Dec 18, 10:47 pm, 4phun <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Good article from Information Week
    >
    > Verizon's $399 Price Tag Of The Palm 755p Is Out Of Touch With Reality
    > Posted by Eric Zeman, Dec 17, 2007 01:10 PM
    >
    > Can they really get such money for crippled crap 'smartphone' phones
    > when a buyer could get a real iPhone instead for the same price?
    >
    > http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...12/verizons_39...


    If you really think an iPhone has a place in the business world, and
    is really a replacement for a pocket pc, then you are out of touch
    with reality. Send vcards, send emails with attachments, sync with
    exchange over edge while driving down the highway, COPY AND PASTE
    TEXT...



  3. #3
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age ofthe iPhone?

    digi wrote:
    > If you really think an iPhone has a place in the business world, and
    > is really a replacement for a pocket pc


    Correct, Jobs admitted it was not going to be a replacement for a pocket PC.



  4. #4
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age ofthe iPhone?

    digi wrote:
    > On Dec 19, 2:15 am, DTC <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Correct, Jobs admitted it was not going to be a replacement for a pocket PC.

    >
    >
    > So why does he compare the price of the Treo, one of the most noted,
    > and highly praised pocket devices ever offered to the business world.


    I have no idea what voice he hears in his head. He was only quoted
    as saying that.



  5. #5
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    At 19 Dec 2007 05:48:53 -0800 digi wrote:

    > Being able to poke at
    > your phone with two fingers is neat at best, but doesn't nearly make
    > up for any of iPhones serious, serious shortcomings.



    True, but to be fair, they're intentional shortcomings. Apple isn't aiming
    this thing at the business Treo/Blackberry market. Picking on the iPhone
    for it's enterprise shortcomings is like picking on a Nintendo DS for
    lacking Exchange support.

    I like the iPhone from the few times I've played with it- I don't pick on
    the device- just the fanboys who think it can do anything, rather than the
    few things it does, but does very well.






  6. #6
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    At 18 Dec 2007 19:47:32 -0800 4phun wrote:
    > Good article from Information Week
    >
    > Verizon's $399 Price Tag Of The Palm 755p Is Out Of Touch With Reality
    > Posted by Eric Zeman, Dec 17, 2007 01:10 PM
    >
    >
    > Can they really get such money for crippled crap 'smartphone' phones
    > when a buyer could get a real iPhone instead for the same price?


    >

    http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...zons_399_pr.ht
    ml;jsessionid=VYDVRU52AEIR4QSNDLOSKHSCJUNN2JVN


    Funny spin you've added, since the article really has nothing to do with
    the iPhone- it's more of an indictment on Verizon's pricing of the 755p
    compared to the same phone on Sprint for $249, or other similarly-equipped
    smartphones at Verizon and elsewhere for $200 or less.

    The only reference to the iPhone was that it's a better multimedia phone at
    the same price as the 755p. (No argument there!)






  7. #7
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    At 19 Dec 2007 16:47:49 -0800 earthtodigi wrote:
    > On Dec 19, 10:57 am, Todd Allcock <[email protected]>
    > wrote:


    > > True, but to be fair, they're intentional shortcomings. Apple isn't

    aiming
    > > this thing at the business Treo/Blackberry market. Picking on the

    iPhone
    > > for it's enterprise shortcomings is like picking on a Nintendo DS for
    > > lacking Exchange support.
    > >
    > > I like the iPhone from the few times I've played with it- I don't pick

    on
    > > the device- just the fanboys who think it can do anything, rather than

    the
    > > few things it does, but does very well.

    >
    > Todd, were not talking about a DS, were talking about an iPhone, and a
    > Treo. The latter which does happen to be geared toward the enterprise
    > market. 4phun picked the devices, not me,


    Yeah, but he's a fanboy posting "news" that he doesn't understand (like the
    Avaya "software.")

    > so regardless of being
    > intentional or not, in this comparison, they are shortcomings, and
    > rather serious shortcomings at that.


    Yes, because you're comparing them as enterprise devices. If you compare
    them as multimedia devices, then the Treo comes up short.

    Either way, of the two, I'd rather have the Treo, but the iPhone has it's
    market. I'm just not part of it! ;-)

    If your high school/college aged son or daughter asked for a combo
    phone/media player with a large memory and e-mail, what would you suggest?
    Probably an iPhone- I doubt you'd eliminate it from contention because it
    can't connect to the corporate VPN or edit Excel spreadsheets.

    I'll admit I agreed with the article 4phun posted on one count- $400 for
    the 755p? Are they kidding? There must betwo dozen phones I'd rather have
    than a 755p that cost $400 or less. And no, the iPhone isn't one of them-
    but I'd take one for $200- my wife, (an even bigger cheapskate than I!)
    might like it. She likes her (work) Blackberry and (personal) T-Mo Dash,
    but isn't thrilled with the browser on either.






  8. #8
    SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age ofthe iPhone?

    CozmicDebris wrote:

    > But doesn't the Palm have a tone of features (even in the Verizon world)
    > that the iPhone does not?
    >
    > GPS
    > Voice Dialing
    > 3g
    > PUSH mail sync
    >
    > Just to name a few.


    Yes, but the biggest reason Verizon can charge more, both for handsets
    and for service, is because their network is so much better. Look at the
    latest Consumer Reports, and look at _every_ other independent survey of
    carriers, and look at the bogus "fewer dropped calls" advertising
    campaign that Cingular got in trouble for.

    Remember, Apple approached Verizon with the iPhone before they
    approached Cingular, for a very good reason. Verizon wasn't willing to
    do the revenue sharing arrangement that Apple wanted, but Cingular was
    desperate enough to agree to it.



  9. #9
    earthtodigi
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of theiPhone?

    On Dec 19, 9:12 pm, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > At 19 Dec 2007 16:47:49 -0800 earthtodigi wrote:


    >
    > Yeah, but he's a fanboy posting "news" that he doesn't understand (like the
    > Avaya "software.")


    I get that, I think for the most part we are agreeing that we
    agree...


    > > so regardless of being
    > > intentional or not, in this comparison, they are shortcomings, and
    > > rather serious shortcomings at that.

    >
    > Yes, because you're comparing them as enterprise devices. If you compare
    > them as multimedia devices, then the Treo comes up short.


    I'm doing that on purpose, the Treo has never been considered or
    marketed as a multimedia device, always a business tool. And although
    Apple hasn't really said iPhone was for the enterprise, every Apple
    fanboy seems to think iPhone will destroy WinMo, RIM, and Palm in the
    coming months/years, which is exactly what 4phun has said before, and
    was subtly suggesting here.

    But what the hell, lets throw Treo into the multimedia ring... video
    recording, mobiTV, Sirius, XM, Orb, Slingbox Player, Full YouTube
    support. Thats just a few things off the top of my head the Treo has
    the iPhone simply cannot do.


    > Either way, of the two, I'd rather have the Treo, but the iPhone has it's
    > market. I'm just not part of it! ;-)


    Yes, the pink razr had its market too...

    > If your high school/college aged son or daughter asked for a combo
    > phone/media player with a large memory and e-mail, what would you suggest?
    > Probably an iPhone- I doubt you'd eliminate it from contention because it
    > can't connect to the corporate VPN or edit Excel spreadsheets.


    No, I would eliminate iPhone because its locked to ATT, which is a
    terrible service provider in this area. Just last week, my brother
    who is kinda middle of the road when it comes to technology, came to
    me asking this same question. He was with Sprint so I suggested him
    the PPC 6800. He got one and hes totally in love with it. He too had
    bought into the hype-phone and was considering getting one, then he
    found out on his own what all it didnt actually do, thats why he came
    to me to see what I suggested. He uses this phone for work approx.
    zero% of the time, the enterprise features of WM6 were not even in the
    equation.



    > I'll admit I agreed with the article 4phun posted on one count- $400 for
    > the 755p? Are they kidding? There must betwo dozen phones I'd rather have
    > than a 755p that cost $400 or less. And no, the iPhone isn't one of them-
    > but I'd take one for $200- my wife, (an even bigger cheapskate than I!)
    > might like it. She likes her (work) Blackberry and (personal) T-Mo Dash,
    > but isn't thrilled with the browser on either.


    I could not agree more with that price being outrageous.



  10. #10
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    At 19 Dec 2007 19:41:45 -0800 earthtodigi wrote:

    > I get that, I think for the most part we are agreeing that we
    > agree...



    Agreed. ;-)


    > I'm doing that on purpose, the Treo has never been considered or
    > marketed as a multimedia device, always a business tool. And although
    > Apple hasn't really said iPhone was for the enterprise, every Apple
    > fanboy seems to think iPhone will destroy WinMo, RIM, and Palm in the
    > coming months/years, which is exactly what 4phun has said before, and
    > was subtly suggesting here.


    Fair enough. 4phun is throwing me- he occasionally writes like Oxford, yet
    posts using OE...

    It's just important to remember the difference between hating the fanboyism
    and hating the product. I think the iPhone is very slick, but there's
    nothing really "new" other than multi-touch. As for it's shortcomings,
    other that no 3G, they're all "fixable" if Apple is willing, or if they
    allow true 3rd party development in a few months. (I feel that they won't
    however- I suspect the SDK will likely be crippled- probably allowing
    little more than local storage of the current "webapp"-type programs, or
    run in some sort of Java-like "sandbox.")

    > But what the hell, lets throw Treo into the multimedia ring... video
    > recording, mobiTV, Sirius, XM, Orb, Slingbox Player, Full YouTube
    > support. Thats just a few things off the top of my head the Treo has
    > the iPhone simply cannot do.


    Ah, but WHAT Treo- we're discussing the 755"P". Do PalmOS devices have
    decent multimedia capabilities like those you mentioned these days? I'm a
    WinMo guy, personally- I know MY device can do all those things, and I'll
    even put my MS Voice Command-enabled WinMedia Player up against the
    iPhone's "Cover Flow" for ease of use any day of the week- but I'm not at
    all familiar with recent Palms. The last one I've even touched was a
    Verizon-crippled Treo 650! I tried setting up e-mail for a friend of my
    wife's at a dinner party only to find Verizon removed the e-mail client-
    apparently you have to install it from the CD, which wasn't available at
    the aforementioned party! ;-)







  11. #11
    digi
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of theiPhone?

    On Dec 20, 12:01 am, Todd Allcock <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    > At 19 Dec 2007 19:41:45 -0800 earthtodigi wrote:


    >
    > Ah, but WHAT Treo- we're discussing the 755"P". Do PalmOS devices have
    > decent multimedia capabilities like those you mentioned these days? I'm a
    > WinMo guy, personally- I know MY device can do all those things, and I'll
    > even put my MS Voice Command-enabled WinMedia Player up against the
    > iPhone's "Cover Flow" for ease of use any day of the week- but I'm not at
    > all familiar with recent Palms. The last one I've even touched was a
    > Verizon-crippled Treo 650! I tried setting up e-mail for a friend of my
    > wife's at a dinner party only to find Verizon removed the e-mail client-
    > apparently you have to install it from the CD, which wasn't available at
    > the aforementioned party! ;-)


    Very true, that is my mistake. I was thinking of the 700WX, not
    PalmOS. To be honest, I am not familiar enough with PalmOS to say
    what it can and cannot do. with any real confidence. Even still, I
    just did a quick Google search for the features I listed for PalmOS
    and it looks like they are all available, except for maybe full
    YouTube support. It looks like PalmOS is stuck with m.youtube.com
    with the iPhone guys.


    And again, I love the iPhone as well, I just hate the hype around it.
    When its displayed as something that it is clearly not, people get
    confused, and subsequently ripped off.



  12. #12
    Carl
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    SMS ???. ? wrote:
    > CozmicDebris wrote:
    >
    >> But doesn't the Palm have a tone of features (even in the Verizon
    >> world) that the iPhone does not?
    >>
    >> GPS
    >> Voice Dialing
    >> 3g
    >> PUSH mail sync
    >>
    >> Just to name a few.

    >
    > Yes, but the biggest reason Verizon can charge more, both for handsets
    > and for service, is because their network is so much better. Look at
    > the latest Consumer Reports, and look at _every_ other independent
    > survey of carriers, and look at the bogus "fewer dropped calls"
    > advertising campaign that Cingular got in trouble for.
    >
    > Remember, Apple approached Verizon with the iPhone before they
    > approached Cingular, for a very good reason. Verizon wasn't willing to
    > do the revenue sharing arrangement that Apple wanted, but Cingular was
    > desperate enough to agree to it.
    >
    >

    Very well put. Said another way, you get what you pay for.

    Asking the OP a rhetorical question, how can any vendor's pricing policy be
    "out of touch with reality" if they're selling their product? Unfortunately,
    what questions like these usually imply, imho, is that "I'd like to have
    that more than the other but I'd rather pay less for it." In other words, I
    want my cake and eat it too.





  13. #13
    SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age ofthe iPhone?

    Carl wrote:

    > Asking the OP a rhetorical question, how can any vendor's pricing policy be
    > "out of touch with reality" if they're selling their product?


    Yes. Pricing needs to be set to maximize profit. You can be selling your
    product too cheaply and be leaving money on the table, or you can be
    charging too much and be losing customers that would raise profits by
    virtue of higher volume. You can damage the image of your product by
    getting into a price war with competitors that have a poorer product,
    but you have to be careful to not charge so much for your superior
    product that customers decide to put up with your competitors cheaper
    product.

    What most businesses do is figure out ways to appeal both to the
    price-sensitive customer and to the customer that doesn't care about
    paying more. I could pay much more for the Verizon service I have by
    foregoing a corporate discount or adding worthless services such as "Get
    It Now," or the g-d awful "Please Enjoy the Music While Your Party is
    Reached" service where the music is always the same static-filled
    classical piece. I could also probably pay less by switching to a
    Verizon MVNO that charges as little as 5.3¢/minute, rather than paying
    my current $32/month (which would buy me over 600 minutes per month at
    5.3¢ each).

    As to the iPhone, just think of how much better it would have sold were
    it on Verizon's network, with its more widely deployed, and faster, 3G
    service, not to mention its vastly superior voice network. Just look at
    the latest Consumer Reports, as well as _every_ other independent
    survey, then look at the bogus "fewest dropped calls" advertising
    campaign that was based on data that even the company that did the
    survey said did not support Cingular's conclusion.



  14. #14
    Carl
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    SMS ???. ? wrote:
    > Carl wrote:
    >
    >> Asking the OP a rhetorical question, how can any vendor's pricing
    >> policy be "out of touch with reality" if they're selling their
    >> product?

    >
    > Yes. Pricing needs to be set to maximize profit. You can be selling
    > your product too cheaply and be leaving money on the table, or you
    > can be charging too much and be losing customers that would raise
    > profits by virtue of higher volume. You can damage the image of your
    > product by getting into a price war with competitors that have a
    > poorer product, but you have to be careful to not charge so much for
    > your superior product that customers decide to put up with your
    > competitors cheaper product.
    >
    > What most businesses do is figure out ways to appeal both to the
    > price-sensitive customer and to the customer that doesn't care about
    > paying more. I could pay much more for the Verizon service I have by
    > foregoing a corporate discount or adding worthless services such as
    > "Get It Now," or the g-d awful "Please Enjoy the Music While Your
    > Party is Reached" service where the music is always the same
    > static-filled classical piece. I could also probably pay less by
    > switching to a Verizon MVNO that charges as little as 5.3/minute,
    > rather than paying my current $32/month (which would buy me over 600
    > minutes per month at 5.3 each).
    >
    > As to the iPhone, just think of how much better it would have sold
    > were it on Verizon's network, with its more widely deployed, and
    > faster, 3G service, not to mention its vastly superior voice network.
    > Just look at the latest Consumer Reports, as well as _every_ other
    > independent survey, then look at the bogus "fewest dropped calls"
    > advertising campaign that was based on data that even the company
    > that did the survey said did not support Cingular's conclusion.
    >

    You're right on every point, but I feel you're reading too much into the
    OP's original question and into my response. Verizon appears to be, from my
    point of view, doing well based on your criteria, so their pricing cannot be
    out of touch with reality. They may be out of touch with HIS reality, which
    is the way I chose to read it.

    And I'll take issue with one thing: probably "most businesses" do "figure
    out ways to appeal both to the
    price-sensitive customer and to the customer that doesn't care about paying
    more", but that is not always the best business model. There are businesses
    which cater to the high end only (and there are, of course, the reverse
    model businesses). The high-end guys, because they have a smaller customer
    base, make a larger profit margin with fewer employees, smaller facilities,
    less overhead . They also usually excel at customer service. because they
    have to. The opposites have to work their asses off to do volume. Customer
    service almost always suffers. The ones in the middle have a taste of both,
    but generally appreciate their higher end clients more. Given the choices,
    I'd rather be a business that caters to the high end. You?





  15. #15
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon's Pricing Out of Touch With Reality in the age of the iPhone?

    At 20 Dec 2007 10:25:31 -0500 Carl wrote:

    > Asking the OP a rhetorical question, how can any vendor's pricing
    > policy be "out of touch with reality" if they're selling their
    > product? Unfortunately, what questions like these usually imply,
    > imho, is that "I'd like to have that more than the other but I'd rather

    pay less for it."
    > In other words, I want my cake and eat it too.



    Perhaps, but in this case it's out of line with other products in their own
    lineup- Verizon sells more featured phones for less. My guess is that
    they're trying to milk the last of the PalmOS diehards who have resisted
    switching to Blackberries or WinMo devices.





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