I Phone?

In article <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > i don't understand
> > why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might
> > want one.
>
> Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them?

why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now,
iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for
$1000 each:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813>

82% of iphone owners are 'very satisfied' with it, and that is much
higher than other smartphones. you must hang out with the other 18%.


<http://www.changewave.com/freeconten...1807-AppleDoes
ntDisappoint.html>

An unprecedented 82% of iPhone owners report being Very Satisfied
with their purchase, up 5-points since our previous survey in July
and by far the highest rating of any cellular manufacturer.

> They had no idea what its capability, or more important its incapability
> was because the hype said it was the greatest gadget since sliced
> bread....which, of course, is a tiny bit of an exageration...(c;
>
> If ONE person all horny and squirming on that line stops to take a breath
> and THINK FOR HIMSELF, all the various critical posts made by the entire
> group of critical posters.....was of service.

people are capable of deciding for themselves. like most phones, they
can try it out for 30 days and return it if not satisfied. most people
are happy with it, but some aren't. that's why there are alternatives.

---

› See More: I Phone?

In article <[email protected]>, Kevin Weaver
<[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them?
> >
> > why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now,
> > iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for
> > $1000 each:
> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253>
> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813>
>
> Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference.

both of those listings are closed auctions. although most iphones
don't command that high a price, the point is that anyone who is not
satisfied and past the return period can sell it and recoup whatever
they paid, sometimes even more.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now,
> > iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for
> > $1000 each:
> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253>
> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813>
>
> Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference.

yes, those are "sold" prices... not "selling" prices. iphone command
quite a premium since the functionally is so high.

i expect to make money on my iphones when i decide to upgrade... it's
kinda like apple "pays" you to own them, kinda cool and shows that
owning quality devices can pay you back...

Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone.
Hack it and save hundreds.

"Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now,
>> > iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for
>> > $1000 each:
>> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253>
>> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813>
>>
>> Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference.
>
> yes, those are "sold" prices... not "selling" prices. iphone command
> quite a premium since the functionally is so high.
>
> i expect to make money on my iphones when i decide to upgrade... it's
> kinda like apple "pays" you to own them, kinda cool and shows that
> owning quality devices can pay you back...

In article <F%[email protected]>, Kevin Weaver
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone.
> Hack it and save hundreds.

except that a 2 year contract is required.

the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them
(if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they
currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3
years in canada).

also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in
countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the
*only* ways they can get one.

"Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone.
> Hack it and save hundreds.

apple won't allow you to pay cash for an iPhone.

plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of
non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high...

Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he
bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with
_cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked
it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract
being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there
records was bogus.

"Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with
>> iPhone.
>> Hack it and save hundreds.
>
> apple won't allow you to pay cash for an iPhone.
>
> plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of
> non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high...

In article <[email protected]>, Kevin Weaver
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he
> bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with
> _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked
> it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract
> being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there
> records was bogus.

a gift card is one way around the cash restriction, but it's an awful
lot of hassle just to make $50. but that was for the old iphone.

the iphone 3g will not be sold without activation, at least in the
short term. when they do start selling non-contract phones, it will be
$400 more.

that's why iphones on ebay sell at a premium. the alternative is not
any cheaper.

On 2008-07-08, Kevin Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with
>>> iPhone.
>>> Hack it and save hundreds.
>>
>> apple won't allow you to pay cash for an iPhone.
>>
>> plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of
>> non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high...
>
> Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he
> bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with
> _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked
> it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract
> being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there
> records was bogus.

That's the way it used to work with the old iPhone with its unsubsidized
price. Since the price of the new iPhone is now subsidized by the contract
it seems likely that Apple won't be letting you out of their store with
a new $200 phone without having done the paper work and credit check
required to sign you up for a contract.

It will be interesting to see how that works out. The idea of giving
someone in an Apple store my SSN is unappealing to me for reasons that
probably aren't rational.

Dennis Ferguson

On 2008-07-08, nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <F%[email protected]>, Kevin Weaver
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone.
>> Hack it and save hundreds.
>
> except that a 2 year contract is required.
>
> the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them
> (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they
> currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3
> years in canada).

This is true. On the other hand I haven't seen any signs that AT&T's
contract terms and conditions will be different for the iPhone than
other AT&T phones, which seems to mean that one could sign up for a contract,
cancel before the end of the first month, pay the ETF and be free and clear
for not too much over $400. It hence seems like the resale value of an old
iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior
feature set.

> also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in
> countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the
> *only* ways they can get one.

That is also true, though the number of such countries becomes
significantly smaller on July 11 and will continue to decrease over
the next half-year. I'm considering the purchase of a new iPhone in
Hong Kong since the phone+contract price is significantly cheaper
than AT&T and there's some chance it will be sold there without
the SIM lock. Relying on overseas buyers to continue to keep the
resale price of the old phones high might not be a good bet.

Dennis Ferguson

In article <[email protected]>, Dennis
Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote:

> > the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them
> > (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they
> > currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3
> > years in canada).
>
> This is true. On the other hand I haven't seen any signs that AT&T's
> contract terms and conditions will be different for the iPhone than
> other AT&T phones, which seems to mean that one could sign up for a contract,
> cancel before the end of the first month, pay the ETF and be free and clear
> for not too much over $400. It hence seems like the resale value of an old
> iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior
> feature set.

if you cancel before 30 days, you have to return the iphone. if you
cancel after 30 days, you can keep the iphone. so at a minimum, you
have to pay for two months of service (they might prorate one of those
though) and the early termination fee.

also, the old iphone can easily be unlocked. nobody yet knows how easy
it will be to unlock the 3g iphone, so some people are playing it safe
and going with the older one.

On 2008-07-08, nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Dennis
> Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them
>> > (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they
>> > currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3
>> > years in canada).
>>
>> This is true. On the other hand I haven't seen any signs that AT&T's
>> contract terms and conditions will be different for the iPhone than
>> other AT&T phones, which seems to mean that one could sign up for a contract,
>> cancel before the end of the first month, pay the ETF and be free and clear
>> for not too much over $400. It hence seems like the resale value of an old
>> iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior
>> feature set.
>
> if you cancel before 30 days, you have to return the iphone. if you
> cancel after 30 days, you can keep the iphone. so at a minimum, you
> have to pay for two months of service (they might prorate one of those
> though) and the early termination fee.

Which terms and conditions are you seeing that in? The generic terms of
service say if you cancel the service within 30 days and return the phone in
like-new condition they'll give you a refund for the phone and waive the
ETF. They don't say you have to return the phone. If you don't return
the phone (or if you've dropped it in the toilet) you pay the ETF. Nothing
keeps you from cancelling the contract any time you want, and keeping what
you've bought, as long as you pay the ETF.

> also, the old iphone can easily be unlocked. nobody yet knows how easy
> it will be to unlock the 3g iphone, so some people are playing it safe
> and going with the older one.

This is true at the moment. I'd point out, however, that Apple's
own vested interest in chasing unlockers seems to be diminished with
the new iPhone since Apple now makes money only from the phone's sale
and not from the subsequent service. It could be that Apple will devote
more resources to trying to keep the new phone locked anyway but, given
that there's no longer money for Apple involved in doing so, I wouldn't
bet on it.

In any case, I'd still be surprised if the new iPhone didn't take the
resale prices of old iPhones down quite a bit. The new model has a
better feature set and is priced to sell a lot of phones, unlike the older
boutique pricing, so I'd be surprised if the boutique resale pricing
of the old model continued for much longer.

Dennis Ferguson

Dennis Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with
> >> iPhone.
> >> Hack it and save hundreds.
> >
> > except that a 2 year contract is required.
> >
> > the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them
> > (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they
> > currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3
> > years in canada).
>
> This is true. On the other hand I haven't seen any signs that AT&T's
> contract terms and conditions will be different for the iPhone than
> other AT&T phones, which seems to mean that one could sign up for a contract,
> cancel before the end of the first month, pay the ETF and be free and clear
> for not too much over $400. It hence seems like the resale value of an old
> iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior
> feature set.

yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a
credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few
$100... a lot of work for not much money.

come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other
than 3G and a few other tweaks... so for most people that only use WiFi,
it will be a better deal than having a slower 3G phone that they rarely
would use.

> > also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in
> > countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the
> > *only* ways they can get one.
>
> That is also true, though the number of such countries becomes
> significantly smaller on July 11 and will continue to decrease over
> the next half-year. I'm considering the purchase of a new iPhone in
> Hong Kong since the phone+contract price is significantly cheaper
> than AT&T and there's some chance it will be sold there without
> the SIM lock. Relying on overseas buyers to continue to keep the
> resale price of the old phones high might not be a good bet.

yep! it will be interesting to see how the huge country launch will do
to iphone prices... but the fact will remain the 1.0 phones are the most
usable... at least, without having to pay huge fees.

"Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he
> bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with
> _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked
> it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract
> being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there
> records was bogus.
>
> "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Kevin Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with
> >> iPhone.
> >> Hack it and save hundreds.
> >
> > apple won't allow you to pay cash for an iPhone.
> >
> > plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of
> > non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high...

Sure... you can use a Gift Card, even buy a Gift Card with Cash, then
buy an iPhone... but you can't "Walk into an Apple Store, pay in cash,
and Walk Out" with an iPhone...

My fact stands is the point...

(ps, don't TOP Post on USENET... it makes you look ignorant)

Dennis Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that
> > he
> > bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with
> > _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked
> > it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract
> > being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there
> > records was bogus.
>
> That's the way it used to work with the old iPhone with its unsubsidized
> price. Since the price of the new iPhone is now subsidized by the contract
> it seems likely that Apple won't be letting you out of their store with
> a new $200 phone without having done the paper work and credit check
> required to sign you up for a contract.
>
> It will be interesting to see how that works out. The idea of giving
> someone in an Apple store my SSN is unappealing to me for reasons that
> probably aren't rational.

i fully agree... it's the neanderthal, "price fixing" cell industry that
is in error... not apple, not the iphone, nor or any rational person.

if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect
to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is
COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand...

it's criminal... since prices aren't dropping year to year in line with
normal technology trends.

the entire cell industry is "corrupt" but I sure you know that...