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  1. #1
    Flathead
    Guest
    Is it worth the $$$$$
    Flat





    See More: I Phone?




  2. #2
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    "Flathead" <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657
    @flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com:

    > Is it worth the $$$$$
    > Flat
    >
    >
    >


    As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
    installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
    buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
    point possible.

    For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
    install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
    like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to
    install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
    support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
    bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.

    It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
    something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.
    There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
    or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
    Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
    the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
    fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
    careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
    slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.

    But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....

    Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
    Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
    premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
    driving is a criminal offense.

    Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
    to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
    office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.

    AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP
    program running in background while you play a game or check your
    email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I
    know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are
    multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
    to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)

    Ask yourself "why".....

    And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
    PoS?

    Come on!....(c;

    I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile.....

    We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without
    really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design.




  3. #3
    Ron
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:31:25 -0500, "Flathead" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Is it worth the $$$$$
    >Flat
    >



    Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are
    already oline in front of stores for the 3G model
    which starts selling July 11, so they think so.

    Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive
    phone.



  4. #4
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?


    "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Flathead" <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657
    > @flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com:
    >
    >> Is it worth the $$$$$
    >> Flat

    >
    >
    > As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
    > installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
    > buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
    > point possible.
    >


    Generally I'm not in the "defend the iPhone camp", but you need to STOP
    looking at it like a PC. Not all devices require "installable software."
    Take your toaster- you unbox it, plug it in, activate the very easy to use
    UI, and bam- you have toast.

    The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and doing
    e-mail. If that's the feature set you require, it's a nice device, and any
    additional features added are gravy.

    I do some pretty funky and relatively esoteric things with my phone, so the
    iPhone isn't for me, but it's a neat device and not so easily dismissed.


    > For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
    > install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
    > like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to
    > install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
    > support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
    > bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.


    Again, it's not a PC, but a phone. The new 2.0 software allows the official
    installation of 3rd-party apps via iTunes. This is greatly improved from
    last year's v1.0 software.


    > It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
    > something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.


    True, but it's handled automatically by the iTunes desktop so it's easy
    enough.

    > There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
    > or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
    > Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
    > the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
    > fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
    > careful design.


    Again, you can download to your heart's content on your PC then drag it to
    the iPhone in iTunes and the conversion is automatic- no cost, no hassle.
    If your PC can play it, iTunes will convert it.

    > Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
    > slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.


    But ample internal storage. Que sera sera.

    > But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....


    IMO, it's main feature is simplicity. Any idiot can use it. (Which
    explains our pal Oxford...)


    > Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
    > Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
    > premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
    > driving is a criminal offense.


    The iPhone certainly has flaws, but it's an impressive piece of hardware,
    dumbed-down a bit too much by Apple's software, but it's certainly worthy of
    a look.

    > Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
    > to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
    > office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.


    Only to the extent one is willing. Convenience has a price, and it's often
    worth it. (i.e. iPhone movie rental- $2 a pop is easier than downloading,
    ripping, converting, etc.)

    > AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP
    > program running in background while you play a game or check your
    > email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I
    > know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are
    > multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
    > to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)


    The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official
    workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone
    an app is needed. I.e., if an instant messaging app or VoIP client is
    written for iPhone, the service used will have to be written to "page" the
    iPhone via a web service to alert the iPhone that a call or message is
    coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming
    message/call. A little more work for the developers, but the result, at
    least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to
    too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the
    mobile device. My experience with Windows Mobile indicates that many 3rd
    party developers aren't really good at writing apps that "wait their turn"
    or relinquish resources when no longer needed! Many are written as if
    they'll be the only thing ever running on the device! With the iPhone, they
    will be! ;-)


    > Ask yourself "why".....
    >
    > And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
    > PoS?



    This time it's subsidized- it's not a bad little phone for $200 with
    contract.


    > Come on!....(c;
    >
    > I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile.....



    And WebTV was a perfectly fine product for a certain type of customer that
    didn't need the features of a full PC. Likewise, the iPhone is an excellent
    product for those that don't need a full smartphone.



    > We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without
    > really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design.


    Personally I'm on your side- I don't like devices that have inherent
    capabilities crippled by design choice. A good case in point is my
    Microsoft Zune- MS' even more crippled answer to Apple's crippled iPods. My
    Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage device-
    it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware. The Zune's tiny size
    would allow it to double as an ideal portable hard disk, but MS says no.
    The Zune software has the native ability to convert any media that plays on
    the PC to WMV format playable by the Zune, but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
    files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
    things. Hackers figured out the registry edits to unlock DiVX conversion,
    but MS locked it back down with software updates. (But, ironically, the
    free Windows Movie Maker included with XP and Vista does it without
    complaining!)

    But, in order to court the media moguls, the Zune had to have basic features
    (like drag-n-drop outside of the Zune software, uninhibited WiFi file
    transfer, etc.) crippled, turning it from what could've been the best
    valued, best featured, media player on the market to a ho-hum "me too"
    device in a crowded field.

    Similarly, I think the iPhone got caught in this mindset- features that give
    media companies or Apple's cellular partners the willies (direct
    iPhone-to-iPhone file transfer, phone as modem use, media transfers outside
    of iTunes, etc.) were crippled, to allow the device to be the top of the
    iPod line, rather than a true smartphone.

    What gives ME the willies is MS' continual hinting that the Windows Mobile
    and Zune product lines (and development teams) will converge down the road.
    Windows Mobile will be ruined if it's crippled in the Zune's fashion. I
    like the ability to beam an MP3 or document to any other uncrippled device-
    PC, phone, whatever, without restriction- I don't want a "ZunePhone" that's
    design specifications were designed to impress media execs instead of it's
    users! ;-)







  5. #5
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Larry
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
    > installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
    > buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
    > point possible.


    exactly. yet you still launch into a rant about why you think the
    device sucks. did it ever occur to you that maybe it is the best
    solution for some people's needs?

    > For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
    > install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
    > like the training wheels on your first bike.


    to sell your app in the apple store (like any store) requires approval,
    but there are apple supported methods of installing software without
    going through the store (and i'm not talking about jailbreaking, which
    also works).

    > You're way too stupid to
    > install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
    > support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
    > bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.


    it can be restored with itunes on either mac or pc. it's very simple
    and takes only a minute or so.

    > It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
    > something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.


    like avi, quicktime is a container format and can contain any number of
    encoding formats. the iphone and ipod touch support industry standard
    formats such as mpeg and h.264. divx is is mostly pirated videos, and
    not surprisingly, apple doesn't support it. however, vlc has already
    been ported, so if you want to play divx or other formats, there's no
    need to convert anything.

    > There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
    > or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
    > Usenet!


    flash has been demoed by adobe and also by a third party developer. as
    i mentioned above, vlc has already been ported. real is proprietary,
    and perhaps they'll create a player for it.

    > This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
    > the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
    > fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
    > careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
    > slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.


    it has 16 gig internal memory, which is more than enough for most
    people. the biggest selling ipods are the 4 and 8 gig nanos, not the
    80 and 160 gig classics. since there's already a 32 gig ipod touch, a
    32 gig iphone is due soon.

    > But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....
    >
    > Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
    > Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
    > premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
    > driving is a criminal offense.


    voice dialing isn't very reliable and most people don't bother using it
    either. nevertheless, a software developer has demoed voice dialing
    capability already.

    > Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
    > to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
    > office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.


    someone is trying to sell me something every single day, whether it's
    ads on the tv or radio, ads on the internet or junk mail stuck in my
    mailbox. nothing new there.

    > AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME,


    that's false.

    > so you can't leave your VoIP
    > program running in background while you play a game or check your
    > email....which REALLY sucks.


    you play games while talking to people? that's rude. it also does
    background email checks and/or receives push email, so there's no issue
    there either.

    > it's the only computing device now made, I
    > know of that is NOT multi-tasking!


    it definitely multitasks. apple doesn't want background apps because
    they don't want software developers to create dozens of background
    daemons that might slow down the device, suck up network bandwidth
    (which for cellular is a premium) and run down the battery. i'm sure
    someone will do it anyway.

    > Hell, even the video games are
    > multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
    > to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)


    it's sold as a *phone*. obviously, at&t (or whatever carrier) wants
    you to pay for minutes and not use voip. nevertheless, voip exists
    too, if that's what you want to do.

    > Ask yourself "why".....
    >
    > And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
    > PoS?


    if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if
    someone else wants one?



  6. #6
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Todd Allcock
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official
    > workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone
    > an app is needed. I.e., if an instant messaging app or VoIP client is
    > written for iPhone, the service used will have to be written to "page" the
    > iPhone via a web service to alert the iPhone that a call or message is
    > coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming
    > message/call.


    my understanding of it is that the app registers itself to receive
    notifications, and a single background app (surprise) periodically
    checks and dispatches any events accordingly.

    > A little more work for the developers,


    it sounds like it might be less work -- just register for the
    notification and you're done.

    > but the result, at
    > least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to
    > too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the
    > mobile device.


    that's the goal.



  7. #7
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 07 Jul 2008 13:22:59 -0500 Ron wrote:

    > Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are
    > already oline in front of stores for the 3G model
    > which starts selling July 11, so they think so.
    >
    > Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive
    > phone.


    I like the Tilt, but I don't consider myself "brainwashed by Microsoft" as
    I also see it is a flawed device- battery life is pathetic, minor features
    important to me (like Infrared) are missing, the software has a few minor
    bugs.

    It is the best mobile phone I've ever owned, however- it improves on my
    last WinMo phone (HTC Wizard/T-Mobile MDA) in many significant ways- more
    memory, more storage, increased stability, faster, a comparatively decent
    camera, and on-board, user-accessable, GPS.

    While certainly more challenging and akward to use than the iPhone, it does
    many things the iPhone simply doesn't, at least not yet, anyway- remote
    desktop, NNTP, VoIP/Skype, voice dial/control, etc.

    To each their own...






  8. #8
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > My
    > Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage
    > device- it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware.


    My favorite MP3 player is ancient, PRE-nanny, an Xclef 500 with 120GB
    laptop hard drive. It's not as big as the tablet but lots thicker because
    of the drive. I wore out the 60GB drive it came with and replaced it with
    a Toshiba rough-handling 120GB laptop drive that will take some serious G-
    forces. The paint's wore off the aluminum very nicely to a shiny sheen by
    the leather case it came with. It's not a pocket portable, but it stays in
    my truck plugged into the 800 watt DJ system when I'm on the road...(c;

    What? Your car radio doesn't have four 15" JBL Pro-sound stadium speaker
    cabinets??...(c;




  9. #9
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
    > doing e-mail.


    Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not
    just Apple media files. There's a difference.

    Web browser lacks Flash support. I understand that's not gonna get fixed,
    probably to prevent users from streaming and using bandwidth....God forbid
    it should use bandwidth at $100/month.

    No JAVA is a problem of the N800, too, and both of them lack it....grrr..
    No Flash
    Many plugins are missing....no Realvideo/Realaudio for instance, which
    eliminates it streaming over 60% of the internet radio stations like BBC.

    Like I said, Email's OK....




  10. #10
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in news:g4tqit$9nc$1
    @aioe.org:

    > but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
    > files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
    > things


    I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its DivX
    decoder...(c;

    I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off
    alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media Converter
    JAVA Nokia gave us to reduce the 1.4GB DivX to a more storage friendly
    380MB DivX file (600x400) for the tablet to use. All that resolution is
    overkill on a 4" screen. You can't tell the difference, except you can
    have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced load
    the smaller files rendering uses.

    I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a USB
    drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will
    convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I don't
    like to watch paint dry, either...(c;

    16GB/about 380MB is a LOT of movies to watch...(c;




  11. #11
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:070720081226283435%
    [email protected]lid:

    > if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if
    > someone else wants one?
    >
    >


    Probably for the same reason YOU get so worked up when someone points out
    its glaring deficiencies.




  12. #12
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Larry
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
    > > doing e-mail.

    >
    > Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not
    > just Apple media files. There's a difference.


    it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac,
    audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes.



  13. #13
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:070720081803578347%[email protected]:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Larry
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >> > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
    >> > doing e-mail.

    >>
    >> Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media
    >> files, not just Apple media files. There's a difference.

    >
    > it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac,
    > audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes.
    >


    Man! Everyone is saving all their music in aiff and audible and wav files
    these days! What a device! It plays them all!!




  14. #14
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:070720081813282613%
    [email protected]lid:

    > i don't understand
    > why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might
    > want one.


    Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them?

    They had no idea what its capability, or more important its incapability
    was because the hype said it was the greatest gadget since sliced
    bread....which, of course, is a tiny bit of an exageration...(c;

    If ONE person all horny and squirming on that line stops to take a breath
    and THINK FOR HIMSELF, all the various critical posts made by the entire
    group of critical posters.....was of service.




  15. #15
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 08 Jul 2008 00:18:18 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > > but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
    > > files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
    > > things

    >
    > I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its

    DivX
    > decoder...(c;


    I use a Divx player on my WinMo device as well. TCPMP handles virually any
    media file, and has plugins for types it doesn't: flash, Apple's H264, etc.

    > I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off
    > alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media

    Converter
    > JAVA Nokia gave us to reduce the 1.4GB DivX to a more storage friendly
    > 380MB DivX file (600x400) for the tablet to use. All that resolution is
    > overkill on a 4" screen. You can't tell the difference, except you can
    > have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced

    load
    > the smaller files rendering uses.



    But that's just the point, isn't it? I downconvert almost everything to
    play on my WinMo device as well- sure it can render a 700MB Divx movie, but
    the device comes to a screching halt if any other task tries to execute!

    Given that, how much of a hardship is the iPhone's forced conversion to
    it's native format for playback? Particularly when it's handled
    automatically by the iTunes software? Sure, I can brag that I don't HAVE
    to convert video, but as a practical matter I do, unless I want the phone
    to run flat-out trying to render a full-size Divx movie file.


    > I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a

    USB
    > drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will
    > convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I

    don't
    > like to watch paint dry, either...(c;



    And so can an iPhone user- dock the phone, drag a bunch of movies into
    iTunes and let it convert overnight.

    What's the difference?






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