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- 07-07-2008, 10:31 AM #1FlatheadGuest
- 07-07-2008, 11:35 AM #2LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
"Flathead" <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657
@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com:
> Is it worth the $$$$$
> Flat
>
>
>
As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
point possible.
For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to
install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.
It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.
There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.
But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....
Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
driving is a criminal offense.
Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.
AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP
program running in background while you play a game or check your
email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I
know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are
multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)
Ask yourself "why".....
And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
PoS?
Come on!....(c;
I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile.....
We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without
really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design.
- 07-07-2008, 12:22 PM #3RonGuest
Re: I Phone?
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:31:25 -0500, "Flathead" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Is it worth the $$$$$
>Flat
>
Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are
already oline in front of stores for the 3G model
which starts selling July 11, so they think so.
Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive
phone.
- 07-07-2008, 01:25 PM #4Todd AllcockGuest
Re: I Phone?
"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Flathead" <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657
> @flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
>> Is it worth the $$$$$
>> Flat
>
>
> As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
> installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
> buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
> point possible.
>
Generally I'm not in the "defend the iPhone camp", but you need to STOP
looking at it like a PC. Not all devices require "installable software."
Take your toaster- you unbox it, plug it in, activate the very easy to use
UI, and bam- you have toast.
The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and doing
e-mail. If that's the feature set you require, it's a nice device, and any
additional features added are gravy.
I do some pretty funky and relatively esoteric things with my phone, so the
iPhone isn't for me, but it's a neat device and not so easily dismissed.
> For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
> install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
> like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to
> install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
> support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
> bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.
Again, it's not a PC, but a phone. The new 2.0 software allows the official
installation of 3rd-party apps via iTunes. This is greatly improved from
last year's v1.0 software.
> It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
> something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.
True, but it's handled automatically by the iTunes desktop so it's easy
enough.
> There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
> or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
> Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
> the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
> fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
> careful design.
Again, you can download to your heart's content on your PC then drag it to
the iPhone in iTunes and the conversion is automatic- no cost, no hassle.
If your PC can play it, iTunes will convert it.
> Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
> slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.
But ample internal storage. Que sera sera.
> But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....
IMO, it's main feature is simplicity. Any idiot can use it. (Which
explains our pal Oxford...)
> Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
> Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
> premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
> driving is a criminal offense.
The iPhone certainly has flaws, but it's an impressive piece of hardware,
dumbed-down a bit too much by Apple's software, but it's certainly worthy of
a look.
> Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
> to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
> office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.
Only to the extent one is willing. Convenience has a price, and it's often
worth it. (i.e. iPhone movie rental- $2 a pop is easier than downloading,
ripping, converting, etc.)
> AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP
> program running in background while you play a game or check your
> email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I
> know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are
> multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
> to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)
The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official
workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone
an app is needed. I.e., if an instant messaging app or VoIP client is
written for iPhone, the service used will have to be written to "page" the
iPhone via a web service to alert the iPhone that a call or message is
coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming
message/call. A little more work for the developers, but the result, at
least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to
too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the
mobile device. My experience with Windows Mobile indicates that many 3rd
party developers aren't really good at writing apps that "wait their turn"
or relinquish resources when no longer needed! Many are written as if
they'll be the only thing ever running on the device! With the iPhone, they
will be! ;-)
> Ask yourself "why".....
>
> And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
> PoS?
This time it's subsidized- it's not a bad little phone for $200 with
contract.
> Come on!....(c;
>
> I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile.....
And WebTV was a perfectly fine product for a certain type of customer that
didn't need the features of a full PC. Likewise, the iPhone is an excellent
product for those that don't need a full smartphone.
> We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without
> really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design.
Personally I'm on your side- I don't like devices that have inherent
capabilities crippled by design choice. A good case in point is my
Microsoft Zune- MS' even more crippled answer to Apple's crippled iPods. My
Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage device-
it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware. The Zune's tiny size
would allow it to double as an ideal portable hard disk, but MS says no.
The Zune software has the native ability to convert any media that plays on
the PC to WMV format playable by the Zune, but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
things. Hackers figured out the registry edits to unlock DiVX conversion,
but MS locked it back down with software updates. (But, ironically, the
free Windows Movie Maker included with XP and Vista does it without
complaining!)
But, in order to court the media moguls, the Zune had to have basic features
(like drag-n-drop outside of the Zune software, uninhibited WiFi file
transfer, etc.) crippled, turning it from what could've been the best
valued, best featured, media player on the market to a ho-hum "me too"
device in a crowded field.
Similarly, I think the iPhone got caught in this mindset- features that give
media companies or Apple's cellular partners the willies (direct
iPhone-to-iPhone file transfer, phone as modem use, media transfers outside
of iTunes, etc.) were crippled, to allow the device to be the top of the
iPod line, rather than a true smartphone.
What gives ME the willies is MS' continual hinting that the Windows Mobile
and Zune product lines (and development teams) will converge down the road.
Windows Mobile will be ruined if it's crippled in the Zune's fashion. I
like the ability to beam an MP3 or document to any other uncrippled device-
PC, phone, whatever, without restriction- I don't want a "ZunePhone" that's
design specifications were designed to impress media execs instead of it's
users! ;-)
- 07-07-2008, 01:26 PM #5nospamGuest
Re: I Phone?
In article <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> wrote:
> As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the
> installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then
> buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price
> point possible.
exactly. yet you still launch into a rant about why you think the
device sucks. did it ever occur to you that maybe it is the best
solution for some people's needs?
> For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to
> install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you,
> like the training wheels on your first bike.
to sell your app in the apple store (like any store) requires approval,
but there are apple supported methods of installing software without
going through the store (and i'm not talking about jailbreaking, which
also works).
> You're way too stupid to
> install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and
> support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly
> bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it.
it can be restored with itunes on either mac or pc. it's very simple
and takes only a minute or so.
> It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to
> something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime.
like avi, quicktime is a container format and can contain any number of
encoding formats. the iphone and ipod touch support industry standard
formats such as mpeg and h.264. divx is is mostly pirated videos, and
not surprisingly, apple doesn't support it. however, vlc has already
been ported, so if you want to play divx or other formats, there's no
need to convert anything.
> There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia
> or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like
> Usenet!
flash has been demoed by adobe and also by a third party developer. as
i mentioned above, vlc has already been ported. real is proprietary,
and perhaps they'll create a player for it.
> This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from
> the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up
> fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very
> careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card
> slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design.
it has 16 gig internal memory, which is more than enough for most
people. the biggest selling ipods are the 4 and 8 gig nanos, not the
80 and 160 gig classics. since there's already a 32 gig ipod touch, a
32 gig iphone is due soon.
> But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature....
>
> Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call
> Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any
> premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while
> driving is a criminal offense.
voice dialing isn't very reliable and most people don't bother using it
either. nevertheless, a software developer has demoed voice dialing
capability already.
> Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month,
> to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box
> office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off.
someone is trying to sell me something every single day, whether it's
ads on the tv or radio, ads on the internet or junk mail stuck in my
mailbox. nothing new there.
> AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME,
that's false.
> so you can't leave your VoIP
> program running in background while you play a game or check your
> email....which REALLY sucks.
you play games while talking to people? that's rude. it also does
background email checks and/or receives push email, so there's no issue
there either.
> it's the only computing device now made, I
> know of that is NOT multi-tasking!
it definitely multitasks. apple doesn't want background apps because
they don't want software developers to create dozens of background
daemons that might slow down the device, suck up network bandwidth
(which for cellular is a premium) and run down the battery. i'm sure
someone will do it anyway.
> Hell, even the video games are
> multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed
> to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above)
it's sold as a *phone*. obviously, at&t (or whatever carrier) wants
you to pay for minutes and not use voip. nevertheless, voip exists
too, if that's what you want to do.
> Ask yourself "why".....
>
> And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this
> PoS?
if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if
someone else wants one?
- 07-07-2008, 01:47 PM #6nospamGuest
Re: I Phone?
In article <[email protected]>, Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official
> workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone
> an app is needed. I.e., if an instant messaging app or VoIP client is
> written for iPhone, the service used will have to be written to "page" the
> iPhone via a web service to alert the iPhone that a call or message is
> coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming
> message/call.
my understanding of it is that the app registers itself to receive
notifications, and a single background app (surprise) periodically
checks and dispatches any events accordingly.
> A little more work for the developers,
it sounds like it might be less work -- just register for the
notification and you're done.
> but the result, at
> least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to
> too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the
> mobile device.
that's the goal.
- 07-07-2008, 02:24 PM #7Todd AllcockGuest
Re: I Phone?
At 07 Jul 2008 13:22:59 -0500 Ron wrote:
> Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are
> already oline in front of stores for the 3G model
> which starts selling July 11, so they think so.
>
> Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive
> phone.
I like the Tilt, but I don't consider myself "brainwashed by Microsoft" as
I also see it is a flawed device- battery life is pathetic, minor features
important to me (like Infrared) are missing, the software has a few minor
bugs.
It is the best mobile phone I've ever owned, however- it improves on my
last WinMo phone (HTC Wizard/T-Mobile MDA) in many significant ways- more
memory, more storage, increased stability, faster, a comparatively decent
camera, and on-board, user-accessable, GPS.
While certainly more challenging and akward to use than the iPhone, it does
many things the iPhone simply doesn't, at least not yet, anyway- remote
desktop, NNTP, VoIP/Skype, voice dial/control, etc.
To each their own...
- 07-07-2008, 06:12 PM #8LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> My
> Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage
> device- it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware.
My favorite MP3 player is ancient, PRE-nanny, an Xclef 500 with 120GB
laptop hard drive. It's not as big as the tablet but lots thicker because
of the drive. I wore out the 60GB drive it came with and replaced it with
a Toshiba rough-handling 120GB laptop drive that will take some serious G-
forces. The paint's wore off the aluminum very nicely to a shiny sheen by
the leather case it came with. It's not a pocket portable, but it stays in
my truck plugged into the 800 watt DJ system when I'm on the road...(c;
What? Your car radio doesn't have four 15" JBL Pro-sound stadium speaker
cabinets??...(c;
- 07-07-2008, 06:14 PM #9LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
> doing e-mail.
Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not
just Apple media files. There's a difference.
Web browser lacks Flash support. I understand that's not gonna get fixed,
probably to prevent users from streaming and using bandwidth....God forbid
it should use bandwidth at $100/month.
No JAVA is a problem of the N800, too, and both of them lack it....grrr..
No Flash
Many plugins are missing....no Realvideo/Realaudio for instance, which
eliminates it streaming over 60% of the internet radio stations like BBC.
Like I said, Email's OK....
- 07-07-2008, 06:18 PM #10LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in news:g4tqit$9nc$1
@aioe.org:
> but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
> files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
> things
I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its DivX
decoder...(c;
I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off
alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media Converter
JAVA Nokia gave us to reduce the 1.4GB DivX to a more storage friendly
380MB DivX file (600x400) for the tablet to use. All that resolution is
overkill on a 4" screen. You can't tell the difference, except you can
have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced load
the smaller files rendering uses.
I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a USB
drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will
convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I don't
like to watch paint dry, either...(c;
16GB/about 380MB is a LOT of movies to watch...(c;
- 07-07-2008, 06:21 PM #11LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:070720081226283435%
[email protected]lid:
> if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if
> someone else wants one?
>
>
Probably for the same reason YOU get so worked up when someone points out
its glaring deficiencies.
- 07-07-2008, 07:03 PM #12nospamGuest
Re: I Phone?
In article <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
> > doing e-mail.
>
> Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not
> just Apple media files. There's a difference.
it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac,
audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes.
- 07-07-2008, 08:58 PM #13LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
news:070720081803578347%[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>, Larry
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and
>> > doing e-mail.
>>
>> Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media
>> files, not just Apple media files. There's a difference.
>
> it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac,
> audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes.
>
Man! Everyone is saving all their music in aiff and audible and wav files
these days! What a device! It plays them all!!
- 07-07-2008, 09:02 PM #14LarryGuest
Re: I Phone?
nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:070720081813282613%
[email protected]lid:
> i don't understand
> why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might
> want one.
Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them?
They had no idea what its capability, or more important its incapability
was because the hype said it was the greatest gadget since sliced
bread....which, of course, is a tiny bit of an exageration...(c;
If ONE person all horny and squirming on that line stops to take a breath
and THINK FOR HIMSELF, all the various critical posts made by the entire
group of critical posters.....was of service.
- 07-07-2008, 09:18 PM #15Todd AllcockGuest
Re: I Phone?
At 08 Jul 2008 00:18:18 +0000 Larry wrote:
> > but REFUSES to recognize DiVX
> > files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal
> > things
>
> I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its
DivX
> decoder...(c;
I use a Divx player on my WinMo device as well. TCPMP handles virually any
media file, and has plugins for types it doesn't: flash, Apple's H264, etc.
> I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off
> alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media
Converter
> JAVA Nokia gave us to reduce the 1.4GB DivX to a more storage friendly
> 380MB DivX file (600x400) for the tablet to use. All that resolution is
> overkill on a 4" screen. You can't tell the difference, except you can
> have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced
load
> the smaller files rendering uses.
But that's just the point, isn't it? I downconvert almost everything to
play on my WinMo device as well- sure it can render a 700MB Divx movie, but
the device comes to a screching halt if any other task tries to execute!
Given that, how much of a hardship is the iPhone's forced conversion to
it's native format for playback? Particularly when it's handled
automatically by the iTunes software? Sure, I can brag that I don't HAVE
to convert video, but as a practical matter I do, unless I want the phone
to run flat-out trying to render a full-size Divx movie file.
> I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a
USB
> drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will
> convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I
don't
> like to watch paint dry, either...(c;
And so can an iPhone user- dock the phone, drag a bunch of movies into
iTunes and let it convert overnight.
What's the difference?
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