FSF offers 5 reasons to avoid iPhone 3G

So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out:

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5...void-iphone-3g

From the article:

iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
everyone's phones.

iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
technology.

iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you
without your knowledge.

iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora.

iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the
horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media
formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

---

› See More: FSF offers 5 reasons to avoid iPhone 3G

Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:

> So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out:
>
> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5...avoidiphone-3g
>
> From the article:
>
> iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
> everyone's phones.

incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app
store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps
that don't need to be distributed via itunes.

> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
> technology.

no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.

> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you
> without your knowledge.

wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your
location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be
tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway.

> iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora.

but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones
without issue.

> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the
> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media
> formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner.

mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect in
less than 2 minutes.

why do you hate facts so much?

Oxford <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following in
news:[email protected]:


>
> but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones
> without issue.


flac? shn?

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:10:30 -0700, Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
wrote:

>There are better alternatives on the
>horizon


Aren''t there always?

At 14 Jul 2008 22:13:34 -0500 Ron wrote:

> >There are better alternatives on the
> >horizon
>
>
> Aren''t there always?

Not according to your pal Oxford who tells us the iPhone's 2,427 patents
will prevent anything else from catching up for 17 years... ;-)

The Bob <[email protected]> wrote:

> > but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones
> > without issue.
>
> flac? shn?

those are obscure as well... i said: "all the main DRM free ones"

AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 1, 2, and 3), Apple Lossless, AIFF,
and WAV.

It is quite funny to see Oxford go head-to-head against the Gnu people!

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Oxford posted:
>> iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
>> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
>> everyone's phones.
> incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app
> store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps
> that don't need to be distributed via itunes.

Presumably, Oxford is assuming that there will be a jailbreak for the 3G
iPhone. But Oxford claims that there is no long a need for jailbreak.

Hmm...looks like the kid can't keep his story straight.

>> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
>> technology.
> no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.

Apple "won't" use DRM, eh? But Apple does use it now. There is
certainly DRM associated with media downloaded from iTunes now.

Oxford apparently has a crystal ball that says that Apple will stop using
DRM. So, Oxford, when will Apple stop using DRM?

>> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you
>> without your knowledge.
> wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your
> location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be
> tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway.

Argue about that with FSF, not me.

>> iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora.
> but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones
> without issue.

It will be interesting to see what happens after Oxford graduates from
high school and has to work at a real job instead of McDonalds. Maybe he
will come to understand why patent encumbrance is a problem.

>> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the
>> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media
>> formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner.
> mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect in
> less than 2 minutes.

These are FSF's argments, not mine. Why doesn't the Oxtard argue them
with FSF?

> why do you hate facts so much?

I don't hate facts. It's a fact that the FSF people know much more than
cretin Apple fanboys like Oxford.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:

> It is quite funny to see Oxford go head-to-head against the Gnu people!

most in the Gnu crowd are pure idiots, so it's easy to prove them wrong.

> > incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app
> > store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps
> > that don't need to be distributed via itunes.
>
> Presumably, Oxford is assuming that there will be a jailbreak for the 3G
> iPhone. But Oxford claims that there is no long a need for jailbreak.
>
> Hmm...looks like the kid can't keep his story straight.

ah, now that apps added through iTunes, all anyone needs to do is add
them to iTunes and sync... easy stuff.

so it sounds like you don't understand the iPhone no longer needs to be
jailbroken... so your story is still stuck on info from 10 days ago.

> >> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
> >> technology.
> > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.
>
> Apple "won't" use DRM, eh? But Apple does use it now. There is
> certainly DRM associated with media downloaded from iTunes now.

The record companies use DRM, not Apple... DRM is in nothing they
produce. Apple hates DRM with a passion, it just doesn't match their
anarchistic style.

> Oxford apparently has a crystal ball that says that Apple will stop using
> DRM. So, Oxford, when will Apple stop using DRM?

Apple doesn't use DRM, only the Record Companies do, Apple has pulled
DRM out of much of Recording Company's Music since it was bad for
customers and the Recording Companies finally figured that out... and
the app store has no DRM.

> >> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you
> >> without your knowledge.
> > wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your
> > location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be
> > tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway.
>
> Argue about that with FSF, not me.

Well, I think everyone has to laugh at FSF on that one, they were SO
incorrect on all of those "reasons" it was like a comedy show.

> >> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the
> >> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media
> >> formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner.
> > mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect in
> > less than 2 minutes.
>
> These are FSF's argments, not mine. Why doesn't the Oxtard argue them
> with FSF?

You mistakenly posted that erroneous FSF link, so you are at fault for
not checking content for validity.

> > why do you hate facts so much?
>
> I don't hate facts. It's a fact that the FSF people know much more than
> cretin Apple fanboys like Oxford.

But I was able to prove every single one of their "facts", as incorrect.

The FSF is just a has-been organization run by numbskulls like stallman.
They contribute nothing to society, but only to feed their poor egos.

nospam <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
> > > technology.
> >
> > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.
>
> yes they will. iphone apps are code signed.

but signing is not related to DRM. it's only used to provide:

Authentication - to prove the item does indeed come from the source that
it says it comes from.

Integrity - to prove the item has not changed since it was signed.

and that's it.

In article
<[email protected]>, Oxford
<[email protected]> wrote:

> nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
> > > > technology.
> > >
> > > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.
> >
> > yes they will. iphone apps are code signed.
>
> but signing is not related to DRM. it's only used to provide:
>
> Authentication - to prove the item does indeed come from the source that
> it says it comes from.
>
> Integrity - to prove the item has not changed since it was signed.
>
> and that's it.

and eliminating piracy (until it's circumvented).

In message <[email protected]>
Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:

>nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
>> > > technology.
>> >
>> > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.
>>
>> yes they will. iphone apps are code signed.
>
>but signing is not related to DRM. it's only used to provide:
>
>Authentication - to prove the item does indeed come from the source that
>it says it comes from.
>
>Integrity - to prove the item has not changed since it was signed.
>
>and that's it.

By refusing to run unsigned apps, the iPhone is the definition of DRM.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Oxford posted:
> most in the Gnu crowd are pure idiots, so it's easy to prove them wrong.

I wonder if Oxford realizes that most of the software on his beloved iToy
is Gnuware?

> ah, now that apps added through iTunes, all anyone needs to do is add
> them to iTunes and sync... easy stuff.

It is not possible to sync applications that have not been signed by
Apple.

> so it sounds like you don't understand the iPhone no longer needs to be
> jailbroken... so your story is still stuck on info from 10 days ago.

Poor Oxford, can't make up its mind. First it says that jailbreaking is
no longer necessary, then it points to applications that require a
jailbreak, then it says that jailbreaking is no longer necessary, then...

Oxford would do well living in North Korea. Never have to think for
itself, just prattle whatever the Party says.

> The record companies use DRM, not Apple... DRM is in nothing they
> produce. Apple hates DRM with a passion, it just doesn't match their
> anarchistic style.

Then why are all the media files in iTunes encumbered by DRM?

> Apple doesn't use DRM, only the Record Companies do, Apple has pulled
> DRM out of much of Recording Company's Music since it was bad for
> customers and the Recording Companies finally figured that out...

Then why are the media files in iTunestill s encumbered by DRM?

> and
> the app store has no DRM.

The mandatory signing constitues DRM.

> Well, I think everyone has to laugh at FSF on that one, they were SO
> incorrect on all of those "reasons" it was like a comedy show.

No, we're all laughing at Oxford.

> You mistakenly posted that erroneous FSF link, so you are at fault for
> not checking content for validity.

There's nothing invalid in what the FSF says in that link.

> But I was able to prove every single one of their "facts", as incorrect.

Someone ought to send Oxford a dictionary, so that he learns the meaning
of "prove".

> The FSF is just a has-been organization run by numbskulls like stallman.
> They contribute nothing to society, but only to feed their poor egos.

I must remember to pass on that little tidbit to certain people I know
when Oxford tried to get a job.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Oxford wrote:
> Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out:
>>
>> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5...avoidiphone-3g
>>
>> From the article:
>>
>> iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
>> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
>> everyone's phones.
>
> incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online
> app store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science
> apps that don't need to be distributed via itunes.
>
>> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM)
>> technology.
>
> no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM.
>
>> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to
>> track you without your knowledge.
>
> wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your
> location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be
> tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway.
>
>> iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and
>> Theora.
>
> but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones
> without issue.
>
>> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the
>> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media
>> formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner.
>
> mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect
> in less than 2 minutes.
>
> why do you hate facts so much?
>
Oxford- I try to follow these point-counterpoint threads with an objective
eye, but I have to point out that you didn't "prove" anything incorrect that
he listed. You refuted them, true, but provided no evidence that anything
you said was more valid than what he said. Speaking last doesn't make you
more right.

So, how do you know that Apple "won't use DRM"? Can you show me that you
"have to agree to be tracked" (you're implying that tracking s Off by
default)? How do you know that you'll be able to add apps outside of the
online app store ? Etc.

On Jul 14, 9:10*pm, Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:

> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you
> without your knowledge.

Every cellphone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others
to track you without your knowledge. The only way to avoid this is to
switch the phone off and leave it at home. While you're about it, make
a large cash withdrawal to make sure you're not using your credit
cards, inflate your bicycle tires or get ready to walk so you can't be
caught by automatic license plate recognition systems, and put on your
headband full of high-intensity IR LEDs to defeat automatic face
recognition systems. Be prepared to be tracked by manned surveillance
cameras with operators who pay attention to what you wear.

"Carl" <[email protected]> wrote:

> So, how do you know that Apple "won't use DRM"?

because Apple and the Mac community won't allow it. It's simply a too
counterculture based culture for something like trusted computing or DRM
to be implemented. Apple is all about bringing down corporate power,
bringing power to individuals, so those methods are the antithesis of
Apple's and their owners mission.

> Can you show me that you
> "have to agree to be tracked" (you're implying that tracking s Off by
> default)? How do you know that you'll be able to add apps outside of the
> online app store ? Etc.

whenever an app wants to use your location, you have to "agree", even
the camera... now that it geotags, asks if you want to "allow" your
position to be recorded within the photo.

when you get your iphone, you'll see how it works.