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- 08-10-2008, 05:50 PM #1Todd AllcockGuest
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7556.html
Without the pinch and stretch UI it's certainly less fun, and of course
doesn't support Flash or a lot of Java, or even cut-and-paste!) but it's
"Safari" user-agent let me run a few iPhone Webapps in the half-hour I
played with it before deleting it regaining the 6MB of space it wasted on
my device...
Not the best WinMo browser available but it's free, and allows you to
access a few sites WinMo's native IE Mobile renders badly.
Opera Mini still gives a better experience with less bandwidth and memory
usage.
› See More: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
- 08-10-2008, 06:34 PM #2DevilsPGDGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
In message <[email protected]> Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:
>http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7556.html
>
>Without the pinch and stretch UI it's certainly less fun, and of course
>doesn't support Flash or a lot of Java, or even cut-and-paste!)
No cut and paste? Are you serious?
>but it's
>"Safari" user-agent let me run a few iPhone Webapps in the half-hour I
>played with it before deleting it regaining the 6MB of space it wasted on
>my device...
Does it include all those handy security holes that made jailbreaking
the iPhones so trivial?
- 08-10-2008, 09:05 PM #3Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 10 Aug 2008 18:34:03 -0600 DevilsPGD wrote:
> >Without the pinch and stretch UI it's certainly less fun, and of course
> >doesn't support Flash or a lot of Java, or even cut-and-paste!)
>
> No cut and paste? Are you serious?
Yes, but to be fair, Torch Mobile's Iris browser is in beta. It's not
really Safari, of course (hence the "quotes",) but just the Apple Webkit
rendering engine used by Safari wrapped in whatever code it needs to get it
running on WinMo. It's also much slower than Safari on the iPhone.
I haven't tried the prior betas, which were reportedly unstable enough to
better be described more as "proof of concepts" than betas. The current
version is stable and very pretty (cute animations and fade effects)
although slow (probably because of the cute animations and fade effects!)
I saw no reason to use it in it's current form, but I'll try future
versions as they become available- OperaMini is still a better "backup
browser" for IE Mobile, IMO.
> >but it's
> >"Safari" user-agent let me run a few iPhone Webapps in the half-hour I
> >played with it before deleting it regaining the 6MB of space it wasted on
> >my device...
>
> Does it include all those handy security holes that made jailbreaking
> the iPhones so trivial?
That I couldn't tell you, but I suspect the Safari Browser is more tightly
integrated into the iPhone OS than any 3rd party app would be in WinMo.
However, given that any 3rd party app is essentially allowed free reign
over a WinMo device, I suspect any WinMo device is fundamentally less
"secure" than an iPhone. Of course, some of us, who believe that owning a
phone gives us the right to install and run anything we darn well please on
it without hacking it first, don't necessarily see that as a disadvantage!
;-)
- 08-10-2008, 09:43 PM #4LarryGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g7nusu$8jb$2
@aioe.org:
> Opera Mini still gives a better experience with less bandwidth and
memory
> usage.
>
>
>
We had a special Opera for the N800 back on OS2007 (Bora). Nokia dumped
it for open source Mozilla, which is much better.
Mozilla is now working on Fennec, the mobile version of Firefox 3:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/FennecVision
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ozilla-fennec-
targets-handheld-browser-market.html
Bergie, one of our genius coders, has an install to test out the
bleeding edge Fennec on the Nokia tablets on:
http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/numpty_physics_and_fennec-
the_tablet_is_becoming_more_fun.html
There is another version of the Full Firefox for the tablet, but Bergie
took it off his blog as there are some bad bugs in it, yet. Fennec is
better for the little mobile screens, leaving lots more content real
estate to see the webpage.
One of its coolest features is consolidating the SEARCH and URL into a
single entity. If you enter a URL, it goes to there. If you enter
something besides a URL, it goes to Google for answers. As you'll see
on the arstechnica website's benchmark tests, Fennec runs like greased
lightning compared to the stock MicroB browser in OS2008. It is
lightning fast, even on sellular circuits....(c;
I can't wait until the PLUGINS are complete so I can FINALLY run JAVA
apps on the tablet. It'll also have Flash 9, not the Flash 7 we have
now.
I'm told Opera's mini/micro browsers use some kind of proxy engine at
Opera to optimize the webpage for the little screen in your particular
installation. When you call a webpage, you call it through the Opera
proxy engine and it actually makes the call, doing the optimization on
the fly. I think that's why my experience with it was a little too slow
for my liking. Optimization isn't necessary on an 800 pixel wide Linux
tablet screen....same as most webpages, already. Would be great on a
phone, though.
- 08-10-2008, 10:31 PM #5Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 11 Aug 2008 03:43:20 +0000 Larry wrote:
> > Opera Mini still gives a better experience with less bandwidth and
> memory
> > usage.
> >
> >
> >
>
> We had a special Opera for the N800 back on OS2007 (Bora). Nokia dumped
> it for open source Mozilla, which is much better.
I wasn't very impressed with the "full" Opera Mobile for WinMo- it used a
ton of memory and rendered fairly slowly. Opera Mini (a java app than runs
on most cellphones, both dumb and smart) is a different story- it's a
server-based app so the heavy-duty rendering is done at Opera's servers,
not on the phone itself. It's sort of like when you use a desktop browser
on your tablet with remote terminal software- your desktop does the "heavy
lifting" and the tablet just needs to draw the resulting display.
> Mozilla is now working on Fennec, the mobile version of Firefox 3:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/FennecVision
>
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ozilla-fennec-
> targets-handheld-browser-market.html
I'm looking forward to trying the WM version. Mozilla's last attempt
("MiniMo") had promise but was abandoned in beta.
> I'm told Opera's mini/micro browsers use some kind of proxy engine at
> Opera to optimize the webpage for the little screen in your particular
> installation. When you call a webpage, you call it through the Opera
> proxy engine and it actually makes the call, doing the optimization on
> the fly. I think that's why my experience with it was a little too slow
> for my liking. Optimization isn't necessary on an 800 pixel wide Linux
> tablet screen....same as most webpages, already. Would be great on a
> phone, though.
Particularly over a slow data connection- on WiFi I rarely use it, but on
slow EDGE it works faster than the native WinMo IE browser.
- 08-10-2008, 10:36 PM #6David MoyerGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
DevilsPGD <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Without the pinch and stretch UI it's certainly less fun, and of course
> >doesn't support Flash or a lot of Java, or even cut-and-paste!)
>
> No cut and paste? Are you serious?
it's not really needed on the iphone since everything is so well weaved
together. data just flows from one app to another kinda like how iLife
operates. cut and paste was a throw back to the desktop era.
you can always add it if you want.
http://www.iphonealley.com/news/copy-paste-using-icopy
- 08-11-2008, 01:10 AM #7Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 10 Aug 2008 22:36:24 -0600 David Moyer wrote:
> > No cut and paste? Are you serious?
>
> it's not really needed on the iphone since everything is so well weaved
> together. data just flows from one app to another kinda like how iLife
> operates. cut and paste was a throw back to the desktop era.
So tell me, Oxford, if I look up someone's address and phone number on,
say, 411.com in Safari, how does that data "flow" to a new Contact without
cut and paste?
> you can always add it if you want.
>
> http://www.iphonealley.com/news/copy-paste-using-icopy
That (awkwardly) copies from one web page to another, or to an e-mail- not
to a contact or appointment, which doesn't help with my scenario above.
- 08-11-2008, 06:55 AM #8DevilsPGDGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
In message <[email protected]> David Moyer
<[email protected]> wrote:
>DevilsPGD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >Without the pinch and stretch UI it's certainly less fun, and of course
>> >doesn't support Flash or a lot of Java, or even cut-and-paste!)
>>
>> No cut and paste? Are you serious?
>
>it's not really needed on the iphone since everything is so well weaved
>together. data just flows from one app to another kinda like how iLife
>operates. cut and paste was a throw back to the desktop era.
Wow. That is *so* not true.
First, we're talking about a Safari-like implementation for Windows
Mobile here.
However, even on the iPhone, we're a long way from data "just flowing"
from one app to another well enough to alleviate the need for
copy/paste.
Having been using an iPhone for a few days, there are a few things I do
very regularly which either need copy and paste, or more integration
between applications.
A few examples of problems I've personally encountered on my iPhone that
could have been solved on other platforms using copy/paste.
1) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), navigate to that address
in Google Maps.
2) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), add it to a contact.
3) Record an order number from a web purchase (okay, a screenshot kinda
helps here, although it still doesn't help me email that number without
looking a little less then professional)
4) Navigate to a URL received via email which the iPhone mail client
failed to recognize as clickable.
5) Email to an address written like "bob at crazyhat.net" on the web or
in a mail account.
6) Copy a sent or received SMS from one contact and send it via
(SMS|email)
- 08-11-2008, 06:55 AM #9DevilsPGDGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
In message <[email protected]> Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:
>At 11 Aug 2008 03:43:20 +0000 Larry wrote:
>
>> > Opera Mini still gives a better experience with less bandwidth and
>> > memory usage.
>>
>> We had a special Opera for the N800 back on OS2007 (Bora). Nokia dumped
>> it for open source Mozilla, which is much better.
>
>
>I wasn't very impressed with the "full" Opera Mobile for WinMo- it used a
>ton of memory and rendered fairly slowly.
Not only does it use a ton of memory and render slowly, it has some
pretty serious navigation limitations/difficulties on larger sites.
It's marginally better then previous Opera versions, but it really shows
just how good a job iPhone/Safari does.
>Opera Mini (a java app than runs
>on most cellphones, both dumb and smart) is a different story- it's a
>server-based app so the heavy-duty rendering is done at Opera's servers,
>not on the phone itself. It's sort of like when you use a desktop browser
>on your tablet with remote terminal software- your desktop does the "heavy
>lifting" and the tablet just needs to draw the resulting display.
I've tried it a few times over the years, but I've never been impressed,
Google's "mobile version" does much better using the on-device browser,
at least for my needs.
- 08-11-2008, 08:24 AM #10David MoyerGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
In article <[email protected]>,
DevilsPGD <[email protected]> wrote:
> A few examples of problems I've personally encountered on my iPhone that
> could have been solved on other platforms using copy/paste.
>
> 1) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), navigate to that address
> in Google Maps.
>
> 2) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), add it to a contact.
>
> 3) Record an order number from a web purchase (okay, a screenshot kinda
> helps here, although it still doesn't help me email that number without
> looking a little less then professional)
>
> 4) Navigate to a URL received via email which the iPhone mail client
> failed to recognize as clickable.
>
> 5) Email to an address written like "bob at crazyhat.net" on the web or
> in a mail account.
>
> 6) Copy a sent or received SMS from one contact and send it via
> (SMS|email)
all good points, it will happen in time.
- 08-11-2008, 08:41 AM #11Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 11 Aug 2008 06:55:03 -0600 DevilsPGD wrote:
> >I wasn't very impressed with the "full" Opera Mobile for WinMo- it used a
> >ton of memory and rendered fairly slowly.
>
> Not only does it use a ton of memory and render slowly, it has some
> pretty serious navigation limitations/difficulties on larger sites.
>
> It's marginally better then previous Opera versions, but it really shows
> just how good a job iPhone/Safari does.
I haven't tried the 9.x beta- I was sufficiently unimpressed by the 8.x
versions, and the 9 beta reportedly has a few serious bugs I don't want to
have to dig out of with a registry editor.
> >Opera Mini (a java app than runs
> >on most cellphones, both dumb and smart) is a different story- it's a
> >server-based app so the heavy-duty rendering is done at Opera's servers,
> >not on the phone itself.
>
>
> I've tried it a few times over the years, but I've never been impressed,
> Google's "mobile version" does much better using the on-device browser,
> at least for my needs.
For pure "information scraping" I agree about Google, and prior to 4.x,
Mini was a waste of space on a smartphone (but still an improvement over
most dumbphone browsers!) but Mini 4.1 actually does a nice job rendering
full versions of sites that IEM can't, if you're willing to put up with
it's clunky "dumbphone" input method. As I said, for me, these are all
backup browsers- IEM is still my first choice- it's adequate, relatively
quick, and better integrated into the OS for look/feel/behavior.
Netfront's 3.5 beta is an improvement ove their previous attempts but still
has a very awkward menu structure and their zoom/pan screen gestures
interfere with cut/paste (the app has difficulties telling a "hold and
drag" to select text from a "tap and drag" to pan, unless you "hold" for a
ridiculously long time!)
[As an aside, that's the reason I believe the iPhone lacks cut-n-paste- how
would they implement it in the UI without it being confused with flicks,
slides, pinches, etc. The iPhone wants to be all about the "user
experience" which to Apple means no/short learning curve- a bunch of
unintuitive screen gestures to learn doesn't fit that goal. Bettrr to let
their users go without features than make them actually read a manual or
remember something like those "other" computer companies make you do...]
Of all the recent 3rd party WinMo browsers, the Skyfire Beta shows the most
promise so far, but only because it supports flash (via a slow Opera Mini-
like server implementation.) I keep it on my device just for flash TV
viewing during downtime.
- 08-11-2008, 03:42 PM #12DevilsPGDGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
In message <[email protected]> Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[As an aside, that's the reason I believe the iPhone lacks cut-n-paste- how
>would they implement it in the UI without it being confused with flicks,
>slides, pinches, etc.
"Press and hold" would be one option, this would start the text giggling
or something "cute" like that, and allow text to be selected.
Another would be a "copy" button at the bottom that switches into "copy"
mode, allowing highlightable text, and the copy button would then turn
into a cut/copy/delete "action" button"
- 08-11-2008, 07:52 PM #13Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 11 Aug 2008 15:42:39 -0600 DevilsPGD wrote:
> >[As an aside, that's the reason I believe the iPhone lacks cut-n-paste-
how
> >would they implement it in the UI without it being confused with flicks,
> >slides, pinches, etc.
>
> "Press and hold" would be one option, this would start the text giggling
> or something "cute" like that, and allow text to be selected.
Sure- there are certainly ways to implement it, but I wonder it'd pass the
"fun" test.
> Another would be a "copy" button at the bottom that switches into "copy"
> mode, allowing highlightable text, and the copy button would then turn
> into a cut/copy/delete "action" button"
Certainly possible, but could cause problems if you would want to select
more than a single screen of text, since you'd lose flicking/scrolling
while in copy mode. (Or selecting mode could auto-scroll at any edge of
the screen.)
Not bad-you came up with two solutions inan afternoon- two more than Apple
has in over a year! ;-)
- 08-12-2008, 09:07 PM #14Todd AllcockGuest
Re: iPhone's "Safari" comes to Windows Mobile.. (yawn)
At 11 Aug 2008 08:24:17 -0600 David Moyer wrote:
> > A few examples of problems I've personally encountered on my iPhone that
> > could have been solved on other platforms using copy/paste.
> >
> > 1) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), navigate to that address
> > in Google Maps.
> >
> > 2) Receive an address via (SMS|email|website), add it to a contact.
> >
> > 3) Record an order number from a web purchase (okay, a screenshot kinda
> > helps here, although it still doesn't help me email that number without
> > looking a little less then professional)
> >
> > 4) Navigate to a URL received via email which the iPhone mail client
> > failed to recognize as clickable.
> >
> > 5) Email to an address written like "bob at crazyhat.net" on the web or
> > in a mail account.
> >
> > 6) Copy a sent or received SMS from one contact and send it via
> > (SMS|email)
>
> all good points, it will happen in time.
Sometime in the next "seventeen years" you claim it'll take other phones to
"catch up" to the iPhone?
Xbanking
in Chit Chat