GREAT start for App store for iPhone

At 12 Aug 2008 09:26:27 -0400 Carl wrote:

> Really though, a large, large number of them are not truly useful and way
> too many of them are games. I would estimate that about 22 of the top 25
> downloads are games. This may say something about who the iPhone is
> appealing to. However, I can't say that there aren't a number of
> reasonably useful apps available. There are a few. Too few. None
> of the many task
> managers, for example, tackle the challenge of syncing with MS
> Outlook but all assume that task-managing is a new idea for
> iPhone users. No one has accepted the challenge of getting the
> iPhone/Touch to PRINT, something which caused my office staff to
> reject it as a viable adjunct to our wifi desktop system.


To be fair, though, how is this any different from any other segment of the
mobile device software sector, or even desktop software? For every really
useful app out there, there's a thousand screensavers, infantile games,
redundant utilities, etc. For every Picasso, there's a hundred thousand
crappy paintings hanging on motel walls! ;-)

> I am no pundit, but I'll take the risk and speculate that if Apple
> doesn't address those shortcomings, it will find interest in its
> product waning as the fad that it currently is, and serious users
> moving on to other devices.


I disagree. While business users are a significant portion of the market,
the marketplace has plenty of room for a powerhouse multimedia phone with
little to no business functionality. The iPhone is the best there is in
that niche, and tosses in excellent web browsing and decent personal e-mail
capability as well.

The entertainment market is youth-driven, as any trip to the local
multiplex theater reminds us. Apple might be better served focusing on
that and adding MMS support so teens can easily message naughty pictures of
themselves to each other than beefing up Outlook support.

---

› See More: GREAT start for App store for iPhone

Ron wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:26:27 -0400, "Carl"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ron wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:22:59 -0700, "Kevin Weaver"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> 60 million downloads in first month
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080811/bs_nm/apple_ceo_dc
>>>>>
>>>>> If sales continue on their upward trend it will be selling $1
>>>>> Billion per year before long.
>>>>
>>>> And how many of those were paid apps ? Or were all those the free
>>>> flashlight apps. All iPhones should have at a min of 5 flashlights
>>>> installed on every single one. Can't get enough of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yoiu might could try reading the story instead of looking for
>>> excuses to critize Apple. A month ago you were complaining of lack
>>> of applications for the iPhone. Now there are apps, some free, some
>>> selling very well, and still you complain.
>>>
>> Really though, a large, large number of them are not truly useful
>> and way too many of them are games. I would estimate that about 22
>> of the top 25 downloads are games. This may say something about who
>> the iPhone is appealing to. However, I can't say that there aren't
>> a number of reasonably useful apps available. There are a few. Too
>> few. None of the many task managers, for example, tackle the
>> challenge of syncing with MS Outlook, but all assume that
>> task-managing is a new idea for iPhone users. No one has accepted
>> the challenge of getting the iPhone/Touch to PRINT, something which
>> caused my office staff to reject it as a viable adjunct to our wifi
>> desktop system.
>>
>> None of this is to say that 60B downloads isn't great for Apple as a
>> business entity, and certainly points to the iPhone/Touch and the
>> App Store as huge successes. But who are they appealing to?
>> Certainly not us business-inclined users. Certainly not to people
>> who actually want to be able to make any real-world USE out of the
>> built-in calendar and contact apps, nor to people who want it to
>> work in conjunction with their already existing computer system.
>> Game-players, video-watchers, music listeners perhaps. Kids. People
>> who spend the day in their room with X-box.
>>
>> I am no pundit, but I'll take the risk and speculate that if Apple
>> doesn't address those shortcomings, it will find interest in its
>> product waning as the fad that it currently is, and serious users
>> moving on to other devices.
>>
>
> Care to put yopur money where your mouth is and buy PUTs on Apple
> stock, as it would go down if any of your off-base predictions came
> true..
>
> Again read the story, there are expensive Medical programs that are
> selling way beyond anyones epectations.
>
My buying anything in the stock market is a guarantee that it will go the
opposite way, so that's not a fair challenge. As well, the iPhone's success
has not caused Apple stock to rise dramatically and its demise may not cause
it to fall, so the Market is a measure of NOTHING that we are talking about.

Remember, I also said if Apple fails to address these issues will the fad
end. If you guarantee me that they do NOT, I will bet you personally that
the iPhone will fade. My bet is that they will be forced to address them,
just as they've already 'fixed' the broken Outlook calendar sync problem
which they adamantly insisted was Microsoft's fault for several months
before eventually taking responsibility.

Despite that, my small little office staff still rejected it as a business
tool, as cute as they thought it was and as much fun as they had playing
with it for an hour before they got bored. I can't imagine other businesses
haven't done the same.

Let's also see what happens when (and if) Blackberry introduces the rumored
Thunder, which my money says will function as close to flawlessly as one can
get (for business users anyway), right out of the box.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 12 Aug 2008 09:26:27 -0400 Carl wrote:
>
>> Really though, a large, large number of them are not truly useful
>> and way too many of them are games. I would estimate that about 22
>> of the top 25 downloads are games. This may say something about who
>> the iPhone is appealing to. However, I can't say that there aren't
>> a number of reasonably useful apps available. There are a few. Too
>> few. None
>> of the many task
>> managers, for example, tackle the challenge of syncing with MS
>> Outlook but all assume that task-managing is a new idea for
>> iPhone users. No one has accepted the challenge of getting the
>> iPhone/Touch to PRINT, something which caused my office staff to
>> reject it as a viable adjunct to our wifi desktop system.
>
>
> To be fair, though, how is this any different from any other segment
> of the mobile device software sector, or even desktop software? For
> every really useful app out there, there's a thousand screensavers,
> infantile games, redundant utilities, etc. For every Picasso,
> there's a hundred thousand crappy paintings hanging on motel walls!
> ;-)
>
>> I am no pundit, but I'll take the risk and speculate that if Apple
>> doesn't address those shortcomings, it will find interest in its
>> product waning as the fad that it currently is, and serious users
>> moving on to other devices.
>
>
> I disagree. While business users are a significant portion of the
> market, the marketplace has plenty of room for a powerhouse
> multimedia phone with little to no business functionality. The
> iPhone is the best there is in that niche, and tosses in excellent
> web browsing and decent personal e-mail capability as well.
>
> The entertainment market is youth-driven, as any trip to the local
> multiplex theater reminds us. Apple might be better served focusing
> on that and adding MMS support so teens can easily message naughty
> pictures of themselves to each other than beefing up Outlook support.
>
You may very well be right, and I actually wouldn't argue against any of
your points. And we are in total agreement that the iPhone is a
youth-oriented device and excels in video/audio areas. But youth aren't
prone to needing or using the internet on the fly other than to sms and mms
themselves. I think the web browser capability, which is excellent, is of
little interest to them.

I can tell you that I live in an over-privileged (if that's a legit term)
area with over-indulged kids. To this date, I haven't seen them walking
around with iPhones. They're still into their chocolates and envoys and
whatever. The lines at the Apple store were filled mostly with young people
in the 20's and 30's, few of whom appeared to be the 'yuppyish' type, more
'blue-collar'. We'll see how this all plays out. Look, even I bought a
Touch as my replacement iPod because I loved the interface, but I refused to
pay full retail for it and instead bought one from a student who got it with
their Mac for free and therefore paid far less than retail for mine.
Craigslist is flooded with them being dumped by college students who don't
want them. There are many iPhones on that list as well though I recognize
that is not atypical for any device.

Ron wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:02:20 -0400, "Carl"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> 4phun wrote:
>>> On Aug 11, 8:01 am, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 60 million downloads in first month
>>>>
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080811/bs_nm/apple_ceo_dc
>>>>
>>>> If sales continue on their upward trend it will be selling $1
>>>> Billion per year before long.
>>>
>>> Apple sold 3 million 3G iPhones from July 11 to August. The iPhone
>>> has stunned onlookers in being a smash hit even in Japan where anti
>>> Apple pundits said it would never sell against more sophisticated
>>> phones. This is creating huge shock waves in the highly
>>> competitive Japanese telecom industry. The non iPhone carriers lost
>>> net customers to the iPhone carrier for the first time in Japanese
>>> history. Go figure.
>>>
>>> Now investors are worried that Apple will not be physically able to
>>> meet demand in the Global market this year which will affect all
>>> carriers in some way. It is the patented interface that is killing
>>> the competition. People just don't care that the iPhone is missing
>>> some feature found in another phone, they want the iPhone for
>>> themselves. Some even carry two phones just to be able to have the
>>> iPhone in Japan. They don't seem to care that is a little odd.
>>>
>> Why not resolve this the way I did, by getting a Touch instead? Why
>> two phones which is, by many standards, a "little odd"?
>>
>
>
> Because the iPhone is an excellent phone, a wonderful iPod, and
> a fully functional Internet device, all perfectly integrated; which
> all work together intuitively.
>
This is a flawed response because it doesn't address the issue that the
users in question are described as carrying two phones, which makes little
sense. The implication being they don't want it as a PHONE, but for all the
other neat stuff. At times, it's a good idea to put away your fanboi
rhetoric and pay attention to the flow of the thread.

Todd's answer, below, is much more on target: that they want the constant
internet connectivity as opposed to the erratically available wi-fi access.
A little more thought, instead of knee-jerk response, might have brought you
to that response.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 12 Aug 2008 08:29:00 -0500 Ron wrote:
>
>>> Why not resolve this the way I did, by getting a Touch instead? Why
>>> two phones which is, by many standards, a "little odd"?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Because the iPhone is an excellent phone, a wonderful iPod, and
>> a fully functional Internet device, all perfectly integrated; which
>> all work together intuitively.
>
>
> Did you copy that off the brochure?
>
> How (from one non-iPhone owner to another!) is it "an excellent
> phone?" I'm not picking on the iPhone in particular here, but all
> large form-factor touchscreen phones.
>
> I'll give you the other bullet points- it's an excellent iPod and
> webtablet, but I've yet to meet a touchscreen device that was as easy
> to dial as a 12-key phone, as rugged as a cheap candy-bar phone, or as
> "comfortable" as a clamshell (i.e. Razr.)
>
> I love my Windows Mobile handset, but never would I describe it as an
> "excellent phone" despite the fact that it has reasonably good sound
> quality and reception, simply because it's touchscreen makes it
> inherently more awkward to use than any number of cheap phone-centric
> devices.
>
> However, to answer Carl's "why not just use a Touch" question, I'd
> answer "data ubiquity." The Touch is limited to WiFi only, whereas
> the iPhone has the entire GSM network as a safety net. It's hard to
> show everyone exactly how ubercool you are if the i"Phone" you whip
> out in front of your friends isn't connected...
>
That would be the answer my friend. You win and may move to the $250,000
level. Ron, it was nice playing with you but, sorry, you go home with
nothing. :-)

"Carl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
..

> My buying anything in the stock market is a guarantee that it will go the
> opposite way, so that's not a fair challenge.

LOL- you and me both. Maybe we should get together and start a subscription
newsletter listing the stocks we buy as guaranteed stocks to AVOID! ;-)

> Remember, I also said if Apple fails to address these issues will the fad
> end. If you guarantee me that they do NOT, I will bet you personally that
> the iPhone will fade. My bet is that they will be forced to address them,
> just as they've already 'fixed' the broken Outlook calendar sync problem
> which they adamantly insisted was Microsoft's fault for several months
> before eventually taking responsibility.
>
> Despite that, my small little office staff still rejected it as a business
> tool, as cute as they thought it was and as much fun as they had playing
> with it for an hour before they got bored. I can't imagine other
> businesses haven't done the same.

While most inflexible corporate IT departments will force devices to adapt
instead of the other way around, small business might find they can deal
with the iPhone- using calendar appointments instead of tasks, e-mails
instead of notes, etc. While _I_ wouldn't want to work like like that, if
the boss wants to use his iPhone, he or she or could bend the rest of the
office to his or her will and adapt.

And to be fair, if I recall correctly, your office's biggest hangup over any
other iPhone shortcomings, was the inability to print a document. Most
other mobile platforms/devices have little to no print support as well, so
that's sort of an unfair standard to hold the iPhone to.

My WinMo devices have very limited 3rd-party printing ability since the OS
itself has no print driver support- it's sort of like the old days of DOS
software where each program had to provide it's own printer support for the
limited number of printers they chose to code for (at least for graphic
printing- DOS did/does have generic "line printer" support for text, at
least.)

My tiny battery-operated, long-discontinued $20 on closeout thermal printers
(Sipix A6) that I've used with WinMo PDAs and phones for four or five years
have functional Windows CE drivers (written in 2001 yet miraculously have
continued to function through four major WinMo OS upgrades!), with support
for printing screen captures (and limited application printing support like
Word, Excel, text documents and e-mail messages, on older WinMo devices, and
3rd party support for those same functions on modern devices) but sadly my
latest WinMo phone, the AT&T Tilt, doesn't have the necessary IR port to
beam output to the printer, which is far too "long in the tooth" to have
bluetooth! Now I'll relegate the Sipix to my 7" ASUS EEE PC running WinXP
equipped with USB-to-IR dongle.

Although the tiny 4" wide sheets it printed on crappy roll thermal paper had
limited use other than "wow" factor, it occasionally comes in handy to print
hard copy in a hotel room rather than run down to the always-occupied
courtesy computers in the lobby. The printer itself is no bigger than a
paperback book so it doesn't really add to the travel "heft" factor. Heck,
if it had Nokia N800 drivers, it'd make a nice addition to the backback
Larry carries to his Waffle House-based "mobile office"! ;-)

> Let's also see what happens when (and if) Blackberry introduces the
> rumored Thunder, which my money says will function as close to flawlessly
> as one can get (for business users anyway), right out of the box.

But will probably still lack native printing support! ;-)

I'll bash the iPhone as quickly as anyone else for things it can't do that
most other devices can (like voice-dialing or cut-and-paste!), but I'll give
it a pass on features it lacks that virtually every other mobile device
lacks as well, or at least implements poorly, like printing.

4phun <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following in
news:[email protected]:

> On Aug 11, 8:01*am, Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 60 million downloads in first month
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080811/bs_nm/apple_ceo_dc
>>
>> If sales continue on their upward trend it will be selling $1 Billion
>> per year before long.
>
> Apple sold 3 million 3G iPhones from July 11 to August. The iPhone has
> stunned onlookers in being a smash hit even in Japan where anti Apple
> pundits said it would never sell against more sophisticated phones.
> This is creating huge shock waves in the highly competitive Japanese
> telecom industry. The non iPhone carriers lost net customers to the
> iPhone carrier for the first time in Japanese history. Go figure.
>

Gee- and RIM now owns a 10% market share for the first time. Almost two
months after launch, Sprint continues the Instinct as fast as they can get
them from Samsung. Best Buy, the largest electronics big-box retailer in
the US, publicly claims that the Samsung Instinct broke existing sales
records for them.Verizon Wireless continues to outperform AT&T Wireless
despite the absence of the iPhone in their product portfolio. GO figure.

Let's see. You wrote a six sentence paragraph and so did I. The
difference between the two- The hard facts in your's stopped after the
first sentence. Mine continued through the entire paragraph.

If you are going to tout the product, leave the juvenile and factless
suppositions out, fanboi. The questionalble "success" of the iPhone is
nothing more than a blip on the cellular radar.


> Now investors are worried that Apple will not be physically able to
> meet demand in the Global market this year which will affect all
> carriers in some way.

No- investors are now worried about the inevitable irrelevnce of the phone
and how soon it will occur (see iPhone vol.1 as a reference). They are
also worried about the profit margin of the phone, or lack thereof.

>

Ron <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following in
news:[email protected]:

>
> 60 million downloads in first month
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080811/bs_nm/apple_ceo_dc
>
> If sales continue on their upward trend it will be selling $1 Billion
> per year before long.
>

Upward trend? Where?

They say they sold 1 million in the first three days. Now they say that
they sold 3 million in 3 weeks. Looks to me like sales are slowing, not
moving upward.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> > i knew you would come around to my point of view it was only a matter
> > of time...
>
> What's the old joke, Ox? Even a broken clock is right twice a day?
>
> The difference between you and I is that I don't ignore or deny the flaws
> in the products and platforms I use. No product is perfect or the right
> one for everyone. Yet you spin every flaw in your precious iPhone as
> either an advantage ("flash eats batteries") or unnecessary ("you don't
> need cut and paste, data just flows between apps.")

yeah, but i've always been quick to point out flaws in apple's
products... but i don't sit around stewing about them since i know they
will be polished out quickly.

i'm not sure i ever used "spin" per say, but i do focus on the facts of
a particular matter and usually there are solid reasons by design
choices that apple makes... yes, some of theses choices don't reveal
themselves for months or years, but to get bogged down by saying there
are missing features usually is related to not seeing a large enough
picture.

all for now...

In article <[email protected]>, The Bob
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > 60 million downloads in first month
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080811/bs_nm/apple_ceo_dc
> >
> > If sales continue on their upward trend it will be selling $1 Billion
> > per year before long.
>
> Upward trend? Where?
>
> They say they sold 1 million in the first three days. Now they say that
> they sold 3 million in 3 weeks. Looks to me like sales are slowing, not
> moving upward.

the article is about the apps store, not the device itself. as more
apps are introduced, along with more devices sold, sales will continue
to increase.

as for the device itself, the 1 million units sold in 3 days was just a
spike for its launch. although it's dropped down to a more sustainable
level, demand is still very high and they're selling them at a
*substantially* higher rate than last year.

Oxford <[email protected]> wrote in news:apony-507D42.22512312082008
@news.qwest.net:

> yeah, but i've always been quick to point out flaws in apple's
> products... but i don't sit around stewing about them since i know they
> will be polished out quickly.
>
>

You never said a word about the lack of simple cut and paste.....

It's never been fixed to this day.....

How quickly will they "polish it out"?

nospam <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following in
news:130820080143565268%[email protected]:

>
> as for the device itself, the 1 million units sold in 3 days was just
> a spike for its launch. although it's dropped down to a more
> sustainable level, demand is still very high and they're selling them
> at a *substantially* higher rate than last year.
>

Of course they are- more carriers, more phones. What does the "same
carriers as last year" number look like?