Today, Apple allows Verizon to sell the iPhone!

In article <[email protected]>,
Steve Sobol <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <83c948b1-48e1-46bf-8a29-2cc5934da232
> @l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> (Yeah, AD is an idiot fanboy like Oxford, but I'm going to try to make
> some rational counter-arguments anyhow).
>
> > > Second, no one is going to stop buying Android phones.
>
> > And that's good: in the US customers would typically have full two
> > years
> > to learn what a piece of crap it is. Once dissent have reached an
> > avalanche
> > like proportions they would run screaming for Apple.
>
> I refuse to use AT&T or Verizon. AT&T screwed me hard, or tried to, when
> my DSL broke back in 2002. I had to get the state regulators involved,
> and the fight got kinda nasty (but the state made AT&T credit me every
> penny for the service they failed to provide).
>
> So regardless of how good AT&T's wireless network is, there is zero
> chance I will ever use them. The only AT&T service I use is their wifi,
> and only in places where I don't get charged to use it.
>
> Verizon's network broke in front of their Victorville, CA retail store
> and for six months they lied to me, before finally admitting that they
> had network problems. (They wanted me to buy a new phone.) So, it is
> unlikely I'll go back to them.
>
> Therefore, I can't use an iPhone, since I don't believe in rooting or
> jailbreaking smartphones for which I just paid a lot of money; sure, I
> could jailbreak an AT&T iPhone and use it on T-Mo, but I am not going
> to.

Speculation has it that when the iPhone 5 (most likely May or June this year)
that both Sprint and T-Mobile will also be selling the iPhone.

>
> I think the iPhone is a neat phone. I can see that it is useful to many
> of my friends. Furthermore, I don't know a single person who has an
> iPhone that doesn't love it. Steve Jobs and Apple's marketing team are
> *really* good at what they do, and they seem to really have a handle on
> delivering products that consumers want.
>
> But even if I was a customer of Verizon or AT&T, I'd *still* prefer not
> to use an iPhone. I own an HTC MyTouch 4G. The 4G is T-Mobile's flagship
> smartphone, and it is also HTC's (at least for now). It runs Android
> 2.2. It has a few capabilities that the iPhone 4 does not, I like the
> UI, and there are plenty of apps available for it.
>
> More importantly, I can install apps that aren't available on the
> official app store. This is a big deal to me. I don't like Apple's
> control over the App Store, either from a developer's point of view (we
> may reject your app, but we won't tell you why, nor will we be
> consistent in our decisions), or from and end-user's point of view
> (because the control means fewer choices for the consumer).
>
>
> > It's a question of the goodwill depreciation over extended period of
> > time.
> > Current android sales are future sales opportunities for Apple.
> >
> > If you ever tried to concoct something resembling an image picker on
> > android
> > you'd surely know :-)
>
> So, you've developed Android apps before?

--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm

---

› See More: Today, Apple allows Verizon to sell the iPhone!

In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > > > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> > > > phones.
> > >
> > > And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> > > barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
> >
> > good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
> > old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
>
> Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.

here's one:
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>

here's another, a $99 android tablet at walmart. the battery life is
like nothing else - 3 hour *standby* time, not run time. charge it up
overnight and by the time you get to the airport and get on the plane,
it's dead. the battery is also internal and not user replaceable too.
<http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/revie...et-ever-ars-re
views-a-99-android-tablet.ars>

the dell streak initially shipped with 1.6, but i think they've updated
it by now. why they didn't ship with 2.2 at the time is anyone's guess.
<http://www.macworld.com/article/153330/2010/08/dellstreak.html>

Tim Adams stated in post
teadams$2$0$0$3-CF73F0.17165412012011@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net on
1/12/11 3:16 PM:

> --
> regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
> you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
> the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm


--
"YOU were the person claiming that the ~ told people to go to
HardDrive/users/username/ while I stated the ~ indicated the name of the
hard drive only." -- Tim Adams

In article <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219-9568-0ef045b7b82a@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Rex Ballard <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 11, 4:09*pm, Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> > end of the horrible Android devices.
>
> Or possibly the demise of the iPhone :-)
>
> > Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to the
> > iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>
> That didn't work so well at AT&T, where buyers had the choice of
> iPhone and Android, and a substantial portion of the market went to
> Android.

Yet the iPhone still outnumbers Android on AT&T by 15 to 1.

http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/11/for...re-15-iphone-u
sers-what-will-be-the-ratio-at-verizon/


>
> It's possible that it is BECAUSE Android took such a big share of the
> AT&T user base, that Apple now wants to expand to Verizon.
>
> > Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like the
> > failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
>
> Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> phones.
>
> And many who may have been holding off buying an Android phone in
> hopes of getting the iPhone on Verizon - may end up going forward with
> the Android purchase anyway.
>
> iPhones will not give you:
> Any kind of physical keypad - Android phones are available with or
> without keypads.
> Applications through independent distributors - iPhone apps - only
> through Apple.
> Adult entertainment - Apple will block distribution of an application
> if it shows a book that used a "four letter word".
> Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
> Multiple development platforms - have to use special tools for iPhone.
>
> With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> profits to the software makers.
>
> Android on the other hand, lets you get apps through the carrier, from
> Google, and download directly via the Web. This means that
> applications for Android can provide services to lots of different
> phones in a platform independent way.
>
> > You can sign up for the vPhone here:
>
> > http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/iphone.jsp
>
> Typical Apple maneuver - let lots of people sign up in advance and
> commit themselves to iPhones - before they actually come out - so they
> can hype the daylights out of selling 1 million iPhones in a day -
> (actually orders built up over 30 days) - while during the same 30 day
> period, 300,000 Android phones PER DAY - a total of 9 million phones -
> were sold.
>
> And of course, many of those who pre-ordered their iPhone 4 units are
> still struggling with limited power supply, bad antenna, and dropped
> calls because they put their hand in the wrong place.
>
> > The party starts February 10th!
> > read more here:
> > http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
>
> > and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
> > basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
> > fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
>
> Does it do multitasking? Can I enter information using a keyboard or
> keypad? Can I connect to an external full HD display? Can it do
> speech recognition? Can it act as a WiFi hub to the cellular carrier?
>
> These, and more are possible with certain models of the Android 2.x
> phones.
>
> > http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/and...ighlights.html
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/and...ighlights.html
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.1.html
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.1.html#apps
>
> Want to be a developer?
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
>
> http://developer.android.com/sdk/eclipse-adt.html
>
>
> > enjoy!
> > oxford
>
> Enjoy
> Rex

--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm

In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > > With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> > > iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> > > links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> > > innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> > > profits to the software makers.
> >
> > LOL! 'lower profits to the software makers'? You can't be serious.
> >
> > So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
>
> So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?

some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.

In article <120120111718138199%[email protected]>,
[email protected]d says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Apparently not, since 300,000 users a DAY were activating new Android
> > > > > phones.
> > > >
> > > > And most of those are coming from cheap phones sold overseas that
> > > > barely measure up to the original iPhone in terms of hardware...
> > >
> > > good point. some android devices ship with firmware that's over a year
> > > old (1.6) and are basically, crap.
> >
> > Which devices still ship with 1.6? Give me some examples.
>
> here's one:
> <http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=NBA7400ATP&cpc=SCH>

Never heard of the product or the manufacturer. It only seems to be
available on websites like dealitem.com, not from any well-known source
like Best Buy or Newegg. But OK, all I asked is for the name of a
product running 1.6, and you gave it to me.

I'd be surprised if any current or recent products from well-known
manufacturers are using 1.6.


> the dell streak initially shipped with 1.6, but i think they've
updated
> it by now. why they didn't ship with 2.2 at the time is anyone's guess.
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/153330/2010/08/dellstreak.html>

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either.


--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
[email protected]

In article <120120111709558333%[email protected]>,
[email protected]d says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Java Applications - lots available for Android - not for iPhone.
> >
> > Yeah, that kinda sucks for me. I can write Java apps for PC, Linux, Mac,
> > Android and BlackBerry. (And I do write Java apps for all of those
> > platforms, except BlackBerry, at least for now.)
> >
> > But not iPhone.
>
> an app that runs on a pc or mac is going to suck on an iphone. the
> whole way of interacting with it, not to mention the screen size is
> totally different.

I understand that. You aren't getting the point.

You have to develop apps especially for the mobile platforms, including
Android, iPhone and BlackBerry, or they WILL suck. My point is: I can
use Java to develop on at least two of the major mobile platforms (BB
and Android), as well as at least three desktop platforms (Mac, PC,
Linux). As it stands, I have to learn Objective-C to develop for iOS,
and I don't have the time to invest in learning Objective-C, and I have
technical obejctions to using C, C++ and their derivatives, anyhow.

> java apps on the mac tend to suck. they don't look right and they
don't
> feel right. plus java will be user installed in future versions of os
> x.

There are actually some simple ways to make your Java app behave like a
native app. I am the proud owner of a used Mac Mini, which I got from a
friend a couple months ago, and I've tried the tricks, and they work.

If you just create a JAR file, and you don't take the extra steps like
creating a MacOS application bundle, you're absolutely right - the
resulting app will NOT act like a Mac app.

Regarding your second point, that's news to me. But, it's not a big
deal. Windows PC vendors only started bundling Java a couple years ago,
so I already have a plan in place to deal with situations like that.


--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
[email protected]

In article <120120111732319710%[email protected]>,
[email protected]d says...


> some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
> figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
> jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.

No argument there, but the original point was about profit margins on
Android apps vs. profit margins on iOS apps.


--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
> > figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
> > jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.
>
> No argument there, but the original point was about profit margins on
> Android apps vs. profit margins on iOS apps.

both are 70%/30%. the question is whether iphone or android is more
lucrative. one major issue with android is that users can buy android
apps in only 32 countries, up from just 13 earlier this year. iphone
apps can be sold in 90 countries.

On Jan 12, 5:03*pm, Steve Sobol <[email protected]> wrote:
]
>
> So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
>

http://larvalabs.com/blog/iphone/android-market-sales/

http://technmarketing.com/iphone/pet...ia-and-palmhp/

On Jan 12, 5:06*pm, Lloyd Parsons <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> *Steve Sobol <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
>
> > > In article
> > > <4f130a7d-4ac1-4219-9568-0ef045b7b...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > *Rex Ballard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > With all these limitations and restrictions on what Apple will allow
> > > > iPhone users to use as "Applications" - most of which are more like
> > > > links to web sites - developers have less incentive to do real
> > > > innovations on iPhone - which is a restricted market with lower
> > > > profits to the software makers.
>
> > > LOL! *'lower profits to the software makers'? *You can't be serious.
>
> > > So far for developers, iOS has been manna from heaven!
>
> > So - you develop iPhone apps, and have some insight into profit margins?
>
> Nope, but I know a few that do. *They're tickled pink.
>
> --
> Lloyd

Which Apps did they write? Please be specific.

In news:[email protected] Oxford
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today

It's hardly a matter of "allow," since Apple has to build a version for
Verizon.

> and the official end of the horrible Android devices.

That's funny! Stupid, but still funny.

Does somebody force you to use one?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN [email protected]

In article <120120111816237580%[email protected]>,
[email protected]d says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > some developers disclose the number of downloads so it's not hard to
> > > figure out how much they've made. obviously, not everyone hits the
> > > jackpot but there's a *lot* of money to be made.
> >
> > No argument there, but the original point was about profit margins on
> > Android apps vs. profit margins on iOS apps.
>
> both are 70%/30%. the question is whether iphone or android is more
> lucrative. one major issue with android is that users can buy android
> apps in only 32 countries, up from just 13 earlier this year. iphone
> apps can be sold in 90 countries.


I'd think that right now, iOS apps HAVE TO be more lucrative, when you
are discussing absolute numbers. The iPhone has been around much longer,
and the market is much more mature.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
[email protected]

Oxford wrote:
> Glad to hear of the Verizon/iPhone announcement today and the official
> end of the horrible Android devices.
>
> Google had a tight window to succeed, but now everyone will flock to
> the iPhone on Verizon so the Android died today.
>
> Everyone hated Android phones, way too disjointed, (it was much like
> the failed Linux platform) so it's good they are now history.
>
> You can sign up for the vPhone here:
>
> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/iphone.jsp
>
> The party starts February 10th!
>
> read more here:
>
> http://support.vzw.com/faqs/iphone/iphone_faq.html
>
> and it's well worth reading over the features of the iPhone, it's
> basically a tiny "mac", so you can leave home or office and still be
> fully connected, easily the best smartphone ever devised.
>
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/
>
> enjoy!
>
> oxford
>
It still doesn't have a user-replaceable battery, it still doesn't come with
a free navigation program, and worst of all, it still doesn't access any
flashplayer websites (because, heaven forbid, we don't want to cut into
those Apple App Store revenues, at the expense of the user, of course).
Now, at least, you'll have a shot at actually making phone calls with it.

In essence, it's still a toy for kids who mostly want to have a phone and
music player in one device and who need to have the latest gadget.

I gave iPads as holiday gifts to my employees. To date, the youngest one
rarely tries using it for work-related things and lugs it around on the bus
as a giant iPod. I keep telling her she should find a thick cord so she
could wear it around her neck. By the time she gets to work, the battery is
drained.

Don't worry Oxford, it will be a big seller. It's a good thing that most
buyers don't look into what it can't do, just that it's cute. :-)

-hh wrote:
> On Jan 11, 6:18 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 1/11/2011 1:33 PM, Flint wrote:
>>
>>> The real question (for me) is do I really want to go with a
>>> smartphone, or Skype(WiFi only) on an Android tablet, or an iPad...
>>
>> Wait and see what the pricing is for the Verizon iPhone plans. Are
>> they going to price service the same as Android devices ($30 for
>> unlimited data, $15 for 150MB (on top of a minimum $40 a month voice
>> plan)) or are they going to try to charge more.
>
> And also wait to see what AT&T counter-offers with.
>
>
>> Android devices have some advantages over the iPhone and vice-versa.
>
> Of course. But on Androids, I was told (verbally...I haven't looked
> to confirm this one yet) that VZW mentioned something about how
> they're going to accept returns on "Christmas gift" Androids as trade-
> in /upgrades for VZW iPhones.
>
>
> -hh
>
Well, Xmas gift anythings, not just Droids. According to their FAQ, they're
allowing you to return and exchange anything you bought up to 30 days before
and 15 days for tablets. I don't know, but that sounds like their standard
policy to me.