Computerworld Article on Tiered versus Unlimited Data Plans--TieredMay be Coming to Verizon this Summer According to CFO

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:48:24 -0700, SMS wrote:

> <http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9215468/Data_caps_How_long_can_Verizon_Sprint_offer_unlimited_plans_?taxonomyId=16>
>
> "Many smartphone users might respond to data caps (and threats of data
> throttling) by resorting to heavy media downloads over their fast
> Ethernet-based networks while at work or working at home over a connection
> with fiber optic, DSL or cable modem. A smartphone on a home Wi-Fi network
> connected to DSL or cable modem would only be governed by the data limits,
> if any, of those wired services."
>
> Of course if they would do this even without caps and throttling, the
> carriers would not have to impose caps and throttling!
>
> Maybe the carriers should try a carrot instead of a stick. Offer a rebate
> for every GB under x GB used per month. Put limits on data but offer
> "rollover."


I forgot this...THIS is what I want!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flvd5gVT7fg

---

› See More: Computerworld Article on Tiered versus Unlimited Data Plans--TieredMay be Coming to Verizon this Summer According to CFO

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> With five minutes or less travel, I can get to
> six free public WiFi sites and more unsecured
> private ones than I can easily count.
>
> And that's five minutes without a car.
>
>
>

Sheesh - it's interesting how the US folks assume the rest of the world
is like theirs.

Here in Australia - and I live just outside one of the State capital
cities - we basically have a choice of McDonalds or McDonalds.

Sure, there are occasional coffee shops that have free wifi - VERY
occasional. Most publicly accessible Wifi here is expensive, and
charged by the 5-minute or 15-minute timeslots at exorbitant rates.
Even our domestic and international airports use Optus at about $10 for
a 15 minute timeslot.

Our City Library has Wifi, but you need a library card, barcode, and PIN
to access it. The nearest one of those to me is about a 20 minute
drive.


--

NightStalker

On Tue, 3 May 2011 16:36:13 +1000, NightStalker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>>
>> With five minutes or less travel, I can get to
>> six free public WiFi sites and more unsecured
>> private ones than I can easily count.
>>
>> And that's five minutes without a car.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Sheesh - it's interesting how the US folks assume the rest of the world
>is like theirs.
>
>Here in Australia - and I live just outside one of the State capital
>cities - we basically have a choice of McDonalds or McDonalds.
>
>Sure, there are occasional coffee shops that have free wifi - VERY
>occasional. Most publicly accessible Wifi here is expensive, and
>charged by the 5-minute or 15-minute timeslots at exorbitant rates.
>Even our domestic and international airports use Optus at about $10 for
>a 15 minute timeslot.
>
>Our City Library has Wifi, but you need a library card, barcode, and PIN
>to access it. The nearest one of those to me is about a 20 minute
>drive.

Please don't let one or two people speak for the entire US. Their
experiences are far from typical. In fact, typical is much closer to
what you just described.

--
Paul Miner

On 5/2/2011 11:36 PM, NightStalker wrote:

> Sheesh - it's interesting how the US folks assume the rest of the world
> is like theirs.

I don't think anyone was extrapolating the state of Wi-Fi on the U.S.
onto the ROW. These four newsgroups are about U.S. cellular carriers
(even though T-Mobile has networks outside the U.S., the T-Mobile group
essentially was a replacement for the old Voicestream group).

The Wi-Fi discussion all started with the idea that since the average
U.S. smart phone user is (allegedly, according to Cisco) using around
100MB per month of data (outside of home or work), that a lower cost,
limited data plan could be practical if a) the user chooses some other
Internet access at home or work (Wi-Fi on smart phone or other some
other wired or wireless device), and b) uses Wi-Fi, when available,
outside home or work, rather than automatically using cellular data all
the time (as many people do when they have unlimited data).

The savings can be substantial. On Verizon's network, to get unlimited
data, on a plan with 900 peak voice minutes and unlimited texts would
cost around $120 per month with taxes and fees. On Verizon's network to
get a 100MB, with 1200 peak minutes and 2000 texts, would cost about
$29.95 per month on Verizon's network. Is $90 per month worth being
frugal with data? It is to some people, it isn't to others.

In the U.S., besides McDonald's and libraries you can often find free
Wi-Fi at Airports, Beaches, Coffee Houses, Convention Centers, Medical
Centers, Bakeries, Colleges, Hotels, Barber Shops, Copy Centers,
Laundromats, Bars, Doughnut Shops, Campgrounds, Yogurt Shops, Parks, Car
Repair Shops, Freeway Rest Areas, Restaurants, Car Dealers, Government
Buildings, Shopping Malls, Car Washes, and Hospitals. No, not every one
of those places in every instance, and yes, sometimes you need to enter
a WEP/WPA key or some other code.

Look at <http://www.wififreespot.com/aus.html> for some free wi-fi
spots, but remember that this directory lists only a fraction of all
available spots.

In the U.S., if you're not into streaming audio and video to your phone
(or using other high data usage applications, such as a GPS without
locally stored maps), you can usually get by with a relatively small
amount of 3G data while mobile. If you commute by bus or train, rather
than by car, I can see wanting a lot more mobile data since you want to
use data during the commute, though many buses and trains (including in
Australia) now also provide Wi-Fi
<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2008-04-10-wifi_N.htm>,
<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/education/12bus.html>,
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/21/wifi_metrobus/>.

Todd Allcock wrote on [Tue, 03 May 2011 12:40:55 -0600]:
> At 03 May 2011 08:16:23 -0700 SMS wrote:
>> On 5/2/2011 11:36 PM, NightStalker wrote:
>>
>
>> If you commute by bus or train, rather
>> than by car, I can see wanting a lot more mobile data since you want to
>> use data during the commute, though many buses and trains (including in
>> Australia) now also provide Wi-Fi
>> <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2008-04-10-wifi_N.htm>,
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/education/12bus.html>,
>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/21/wifi_metrobus/>.
>
>
> A few isolated examples of limited bus routes in a handful of cities and
> a couple of pilot programs are hardly "ubiquitous," but that shouldn't
> stop you from adding "Buses" to your list of places above where you can
> "often find free WiFi."

Hey, he can often find free wifi at the same place every day!


That's it, maybe SMS' definition of often is different as well

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> many buses and trains (including in
> Australia) now also provide Wi-Fi
>

Thanks for the info, SMS, and all the background to it.

I'm not aware of any Aussie buses or trains that provide free wifi -
certainly not where I live in Brisbane.

And yes - I realise that I was generalising some comments about the
ubiquity of wifi, but not really intending to imply that ALL Americans
think there is no world beyond their own borders, or if there is, then
it all has the same facilities.

But I do know several USA citizens (I have been visiting there twice a
year for 15 years, work-related) who are surprised by things like
scarcity of wifi, data caps (including uploads), etc etc that we take
for granted here in Oz.

--

NightStalker

NightStalker wrote on [Wed, 4 May 2011 08:20:55 +1000]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> But I do know several USA citizens (I have been visiting there twice a
> year for 15 years, work-related) who are surprised by things like
> scarcity of wifi, data caps (including uploads), etc etc that we take
> for granted here in Oz.

Wifi is pretty scarce in the middle of the USA as well, the data caps
are coming. 250GB total (up and down combined) on Comcast, the largest
ISP. 5GB caps on most mobile data.

On 5/3/2011 3:20 PM, NightStalker wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> many buses and trains (including in
>> Australia) now also provide Wi-Fi
>>
>
> Thanks for the info, SMS, and all the background to it.
>
> I'm not aware of any Aussie buses or trains that provide free wifi -
> certainly not where I live in Brisbane.
>
> And yes - I realise that I was generalising some comments about the
> ubiquity of wifi, but not really intending to imply that ALL Americans
> think there is no world beyond their own borders, or if there is, then
> it all has the same facilities.
>
> But I do know several USA citizens (I have been visiting there twice a
> year for 15 years, work-related) who are surprised by things like
> scarcity of wifi, data caps (including uploads), etc etc that we take
> for granted here in Oz.

We tend to take free wi-fi for granted in the U.S.. I took my son to get
an X-Ray today of his hand, and I had my netbook with me. The X-Ray
technician pointed out the wi-fi antennas in the ceiling to me. I said,
"it's a good thing those are there or we'd be switching health plans,"
but the fact is that most medical centers and hospitals in the U.S. have
free wi-fi.

SMS wrote on [Tue, 03 May 2011 17:23:05 -0700]:
> On 5/3/2011 3:20 PM, NightStalker wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>> many buses and trains (including in
>>> Australia) now also provide Wi-Fi
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the info, SMS, and all the background to it.
>>
>> I'm not aware of any Aussie buses or trains that provide free wifi -
>> certainly not where I live in Brisbane.
>>
>> And yes - I realise that I was generalising some comments about the
>> ubiquity of wifi, but not really intending to imply that ALL Americans
>> think there is no world beyond their own borders, or if there is, then
>> it all has the same facilities.
>>
>> But I do know several USA citizens (I have been visiting there twice a
>> year for 15 years, work-related) who are surprised by things like
>> scarcity of wifi, data caps (including uploads), etc etc that we take
>> for granted here in Oz.
>
> We tend to take free wi-fi for granted in the U.S.. I took my son to get
> an X-Ray today of his hand, and I had my netbook with me. The X-Ray
> technician pointed out the wi-fi antennas in the ceiling to me. I said,
> "it's a good thing those are there or we'd be switching health plans,"
> but the fact is that most medical centers and hospitals in the U.S. have
> free wi-fi.

Hospitals, maybe. Medical centers and immediate care places, never seen
one with wifi.

Even if the hospital has wifi, I have often encountered poorly implemented
where you can ONLY get to port 80 and port 443, so no VPN. And then you
have to be within signal range. Even then it's often dog slow.

On 5/3/2011 1:36 AM, NightStalker wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> With five minutes or less travel, I can get to
>> six free public WiFi sites and more unsecured
>> private ones than I can easily count.
>>
>> And that's five minutes without a car.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sheesh - it's interesting how the US folks assume the rest of the world
> is like theirs.
>
> Here in Australia - and I live just outside one of the State capital
> cities - we basically have a choice of McDonalds or McDonalds.
>
> Sure, there are occasional coffee shops that have free wifi - VERY
> occasional. Most publicly accessible Wifi here is expensive, and
> charged by the 5-minute or 15-minute timeslots at exorbitant rates.
> Even our domestic and international airports use Optus at about $10 for
> a 15 minute timeslot.
>
> Our City Library has Wifi, but you need a library card, barcode, and PIN
> to access it. The nearest one of those to me is about a 20 minute
> drive.

Hey, its not all us "US folks." Just those in the Cult of Ubiquity.

I live in a large city, and wifi is certainly NOT everywhere. Sure,
there are McDonald's and Starbucks and the like... But like the library,
you have to be a customer. Sometimes the WIFI is open access, but its
useless more than 20 feet outside the doors of the establishment.

In article <[email protected]>, Justin
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > We tend to take free wi-fi for granted in the U.S.. I took my son to get
> > an X-Ray today of his hand, and I had my netbook with me. The X-Ray
> > technician pointed out the wi-fi antennas in the ceiling to me. I said,
> > "it's a good thing those are there or we'd be switching health plans,"
> > but the fact is that most medical centers and hospitals in the U.S. have
> > free wi-fi.
>
> Hospitals, maybe. Medical centers and immediate care places, never seen
> one with wifi.
>
> Even if the hospital has wifi, I have often encountered poorly implemented
> where you can ONLY get to port 80 and port 443, so no VPN. And then you
> have to be within signal range. Even then it's often dog slow.

completely opposite from my experience. i can't think of any medical
facility that didn't have wifi for guests and patients and none had any
ports blocked. the waiting rooms had excellent signal, but the patient
rooms at the very ends of the building might be a little weak (still
usable though). i think one place had a content filter because it
falsed on some tech web site i don't remember the specifics.

the only place i've encountered port blocking was at a barnes & noble
bookstore a few years ago (no idea if they still block) and one public
library. it's not a big deal, as i can ssh on an alternate port and i'm
not usually at either place just to surf.

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:23:05 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote:

>We tend to take free wi-fi for granted in the U.S..

No, we don't. It's rather rare to find WiFi, and even more unusual to
find free WiFi, unless you're willing to drive around and especially
willing to be a customer where you normally wouldn't be a customer.

>I took my son to get
>an X-Ray today of his hand, and I had my netbook with me. The X-Ray
>technician pointed out the wi-fi antennas in the ceiling to me. I said,
>"it's a good thing those are there or we'd be switching health plans,"
>but the fact is that most medical centers and hospitals in the U.S. have
>free wi-fi.

Sorry, but that's not even close to being a fact. Please don't take
your neighborhood and apply it generally, because it just isn't so.

My doctor's office, my nearest ER, and my nearest two hospitals are
alike in that they not only don't offer WiFi at all, but they also
prominently hang signs all over asking people to shut off their cell
phones.

I won't pretend my area is typical if you stop pretending your area is
typical, even though my area is far, far more typical of the country
than yours.

--
Paul Miner

nospam wrote on [Tue, 03 May 2011 18:12:28 -0700]:
> In article <[email protected]>, Justin
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> the only place i've encountered port blocking was at a barnes & noble
> bookstore a few years ago (no idea if they still block) and one public
> library. it's not a big deal, as i can ssh on an alternate port and i'm
> not usually at either place just to surf.

My wife spent a month in and out of the hospital here, they only allowed
port 80 and port 443 through. As a result to get ANY work done I had to
use goto my pc over port 80 to my machine at home which then VPNed to the
office. It was slow as hell and I could barely get much done.

My mother in law was in hospital last year for a few weeks, same
hospital system but in a different city. Same problem.

She then went to a long term care facility for three months, no wifi
at all. The only way I could get any internet there at all was
using the work supplied cell-modem.

In article <[email protected]>, Justin
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > the only place i've encountered port blocking was at a barnes & noble
> > bookstore a few years ago (no idea if they still block) and one public
> > library. it's not a big deal, as i can ssh on an alternate port and i'm
> > not usually at either place just to surf.
>
> My wife spent a month in and out of the hospital here, they only allowed
> port 80 and port 443 through. As a result to get ANY work done I had to
> use goto my pc over port 80 to my machine at home which then VPNed to the
> office. It was slow as hell and I could barely get much done.
>
> My mother in law was in hospital last year for a few weeks, same
> hospital system but in a different city. Same problem.
>
> She then went to a long term care facility for three months, no wifi
> at all. The only way I could get any internet there at all was
> using the work supplied cell-modem.

family members have been in various doctor's offices, hospitals and
nursing homes over the last few years, about a dozen different
facilities, and only two did not have wifi. everywhere else did, which
made visiting easier. of the ones that had wifi, two required asking
for a password (freely available from the nurses desk), the rest were
wide open.

my auto dealer has wifi, my attorney's office has wifi, all the local
libraries have wifi (except the one who blocks non-80 which i
mentioned) and several restaurants i frequent have wifi.

wifi is not 'everywhere' but it's certainly not that hard to find.

nospam wrote on [Tue, 03 May 2011 18:47:58 -0700]:
> In article <[email protected]>, Justin
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> wifi is not 'everywhere' but it's certainly not that hard to find.

I never disputed it wasn't hard to find, but if it's not where you need
it might as well not exist.

If I need to be a mile from the nearest wifi hotspot, it does me no good.

The ONLY restaurants I have been in with wifi in recent memory have been
macdonalds, a local bakery and almost every coffee shop (that includes
starbucks, panera and local joints).