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  1. #1
    Daniel
    Guest
    I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    and they said they did not have that information.
    I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    Daniel.



    See More: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....




  2. #2
    Boris Dynin
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    I think you're mistaken.
    I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works just
    fine.

    Boris
    "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    > Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    > of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    > broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    > admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    > the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    > denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    > and they said they did not have that information.
    > I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    > only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    > Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    > them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    > I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    > Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    > use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    > Daniel.






  3. #3
    Robert M.
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    In article <4T%[email protected]>,
    "Boris Dynin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I think you're mistaken.
    > I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    > I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works just
    > fine.


    But is it a GSM phone?


    >
    > Boris
    > "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    > > Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    > > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > > with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    > > of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    > > broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    > > admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    > > the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    > > denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    > > and they said they did not have that information.
    > > I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    > > only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    > > Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    > > them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    > > I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    > > Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    > > use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    > > Daniel.




  4. #4
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    On Wed, 05 May 2004 10:04:52 GMT, "Robert M." <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >> I think you're mistaken.
    >> I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    >> I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works just
    >> fine.

    >
    >But is it a GSM phone?


    Of course it's a GSM phone! cingular in California has been GSM 1900
    from the outset when they bought out Pacific Bell PCS!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply



  5. #5
    Boris Dynin
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    "Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 05 May 2004 10:04:52 GMT, "Robert M." <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >> I think you're mistaken.
    > >> I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    > >> I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works

    just
    > >> fine.

    > >
    > >But is it a GSM phone?

    >
    > Of course it's a GSM phone! cingular in California has been GSM 1900
    > from the outset when they bought out Pacific Bell PCS!

    Exactly! I was with Pacific Bell PCS before it became Cingular.

    Boris





  6. #6
    Richie
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    I also think you're mistaken.

    Cingular may have 850MHz in many areas around the country now but your phone
    should still work on the 1900MHz band. If you want the additional coverage
    you need to purchase a new GSM phone.

    Cingular is not obligated to give you a new phone because they added the
    850MHz band.

    If your contract already ended, you're eligible for an upgrade. If not,
    just wait until the end of your contract, or you can purchase a phone at
    retail or on e-bay.


    "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    > Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    > of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    > broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    > admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    > the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    > denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    > and they said they did not have that information.
    > I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    > only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    > Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    > them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    > I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    > Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    > use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    > Daniel.






  7. #7
    Andrew Shepherd
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    [email protected] (Daniel) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only.


    No.

    PacBell divested all Cellular 800/850 MHz licenses it held in
    California when it spun off PacTel Cellular as AirTouch in the mid
    1990s. PacBell did so in order that it could bid on MTA-based 30 MHz
    PCS licenses covering essentially the entire extents of California &
    Nevada. SBC held no Cellular assets in California when it acquired
    PacBell. And BellSouth had already divested its interest in LA
    Cellular to partner AT&TWS by the time that the Cingular joint venture
    was formed. Thus, Cingular controls absolutely no Cellular 800/850
    MHz in California. SBC PacBell Cingular in California & Nevada has
    always been and continues to be solely GSM 1900.

    On the other hand, AT&TWS in California possesses primarily Cellular
    800/850 MHz licenses as well as overlying PCS 1900 MHz licenses.
    Previously, the Cellular spectrum was reserved exclusively for
    TDMA/AMPS, but AT&TWS is now a dual-band GSM 850/1900 network. As
    both AT&TWS & Cingular have recently opened all Location Areas to each
    other's GSM subs, you will be able to utilize only AT&TWS GSM 1900 w/
    your T28, but not the underlying GSM 850. And if the merger should be
    consummated, at which point the combined Cingular-AT&TWS will have
    Cellular 800/850 MHz spectrum in California, you will have to replace
    your T28 if you wish to take advantage of the GSM 850 element.

    Regardless, though, Cingular natively supports only GSM 1900 in
    California. Nothing has changed - yet.

    Andrew
    --
    Andrew Shepherd
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/



  8. #8
    tom glaab
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    [email protected] (Daniel) wrote
    > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. ... When I called Cingular
    > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > with my phone.


    What exactly is your problem? Cingular in the SF area is and always
    has been GSM-1900. The AT&T merger isn't final so I wouldn't expect to
    hit it as a "home" network.

    If you bought your phone a few years ago it's going to be out of
    warranty. The phone should continue to work on Cingular's network,
    even if their techs don't get trained on it (take advantage of
    Internet/Usenet to find your solutions).

    Cingular is trying to sell all GSM 850/1900 phones where they have
    GSM, and they do sell triband and quadband phones that could work on
    any GSM network globally. People with GSM1900, GSM900/1900, or
    GSM900/1800/1900 phones will continue to work just fine on Cingular's
    GSM1900 networks. When they're in a Cingular 850 market they'll just
    roam on AT&T or T-Mobile (with the incumbent roaming charges).

    A better explanation of your problem might help us solve it.

    tg.



  9. #9
    Daniel
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    Boris,
    I'm not sure you fully read my posting. The problem is with Ericsson
    World phones that Cingular sold until recently. I also have an old
    Nokia phone that works fine, but it is a single band phone not a world
    phone.

    Does anyone out there have an Ericsson world phone and have problems
    with Cingular's new Network upgrade.

    When I turn my phone on it comes up with Cingular on the screen and
    then after a couple minutes I get a message saying "No Access". At
    first this only happened on the weekends and then recently it started
    to happen all the time.

    Daniel.

    "Boris Dynin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<4T%[email protected]>...
    > I think you're mistaken.
    > I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    > I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works just
    > fine.
    >
    > Boris
    > "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    > > Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    > > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > > with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    > > of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    > > broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    > > admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    > > the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    > > denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    > > and they said they did not have that information.
    > > I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    > > only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    > > Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    > > them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    > > I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    > > Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    > > use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    > > Daniel.




  10. #10
    Daniel
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    He is a full explanation of the problem I'm having with the Cingular
    Network and my Ericsson T28 World Phone.
    Since Janurary I noticed that if I powered off/on my phone on the
    weekend it would not not allow me to make calls. I would get a message
    on the screen saying "no access". And like Magic I would power it
    off/on on the Monday after a weekend of not being able to make calls
    and it would work again. This kept happening and has now started to
    happen during the week too. At the moment when I power cycle my phone
    it comes with Cingular if I try to make a call I get the message no
    access after a couple of minutes. I then take out the sim card and put
    it back into my old crappy Nokia and it works fine.

    I called Cingular (many times) and they keep insisting it is a problem
    with my phone. But I know it is not a problem with my phone, because
    when I travel it works fine. I called into the Cingular store where I
    bought my phone and they explained that Cingular is upgrading their
    Network and the new Network configuration does not support my World
    phone.

    Daniel.

    [email protected] (tom glaab) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Daniel) wrote
    > > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. ... When I called Cingular
    > > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > > with my phone.

    >
    > What exactly is your problem? Cingular in the SF area is and always
    > has been GSM-1900. The AT&T merger isn't final so I wouldn't expect to
    > hit it as a "home" network.
    >
    > If you bought your phone a few years ago it's going to be out of
    > warranty. The phone should continue to work on Cingular's network,
    > even if their techs don't get trained on it (take advantage of
    > Internet/Usenet to find your solutions).
    >
    > Cingular is trying to sell all GSM 850/1900 phones where they have
    > GSM, and they do sell triband and quadband phones that could work on
    > any GSM network globally. People with GSM1900, GSM900/1900, or
    > GSM900/1800/1900 phones will continue to work just fine on Cingular's
    > GSM1900 networks. When they're in a Cingular 850 market they'll just
    > roam on AT&T or T-Mobile (with the incumbent roaming charges).
    >
    > A better explanation of your problem might help us solve it.
    >
    > tg.




  11. #11
    Jay A
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    As I understand it, a "world" phone is just one that works on
    850/900/1800/1900 bands. Both my Motorola v600 and v400 are such phones and
    I had no trouble while on vacation in SF last week.For them to say their
    upgrade does not support a world phone makes no sense at all. If there is
    any coverage in the 1900 band (as there should be in California) you should
    have no trouble.

    The fact that you had trouble over the weekends and "like magic" all was
    fine on Monday kind've indicates to me that they may have been doing some
    kind of maintenance on the weekends, and perhaps extended that maintenance
    to weekdays later on.

    Here is what MAY have been taking place.....

    What you experienced was no reception because there was a tower (or two, or
    three) out due to maintenance. The reason your Nokia worked MAY be due to
    the fact that perhaps your Nokia has better reception and maybe is just
    picking up a distant tower that the T28 is not picking up. After all, isn't
    the T28 notorious for bad reception?

    Think about it.





  12. #12
    PCW
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    Question for Andrew:

    This is a followup question to your detailed explanation of frequency
    band licensing issues in California for AT&T, Cingular, etc.

    I live in a suburban area of Thousand Oaks (Newbury Park south of the
    101)in which there is no usuable 1900MHz coverage on
    Cingular/T-Mobile's shared system (I forget the name of that
    enterprise). On the other hand, there is an ATTWS on a hilltop about
    a half mile from home.

    If I purchase a Cingular Blackberry 7280, which is 850/1800/1900
    capable, will it operate on AT&T's site, particularly 850, if they
    have that capability at that site? I am referring to GPRS data, not
    GSM voice.

    I'm aware of the recent inter-system roaming agreement, but is that
    only for voice, or is it for data, too?

    Thanks,

    PCW



  13. #13
    Andrew Shepherd
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.237.189.204
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    X-Trace: posting.google.com 1083901324 31503 127.0.0.1 (7 May 2004 03:42:04 GMT)
    X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 03:42:04 +0000 (UTC)
    Xref: news.newshosting.com alt.cellular.cingular:31057

    [email protected] (PCW) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Question for Andrew:
    >
    > This is a followup question to your detailed explanation of frequency
    > band licensing issues in California for AT&T, Cingular, etc.
    >
    > I live in a suburban area of Thousand Oaks (Newbury Park south of the
    > 101)in which there is no usuable 1900MHz coverage on
    > Cingular/T-Mobile's shared system (I forget the name of that
    > enterprise). On the other hand, there is an ATTWS on a hilltop about
    > a half mile from home.
    >
    > If I purchase a Cingular Blackberry 7280, which is 850/1800/1900
    > capable, will it operate on AT&T's site, particularly 850, if they
    > have that capability at that site? I am referring to GPRS data, not
    > GSM voice.
    >
    > I'm aware of the recent inter-system roaming agreement, but is that
    > only for voice, or is it for data, too?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > PCW


    GSM roaming is resolved according to Location Area. A Location Area
    may be as geographically small as the coverage area of a single BCCH
    (e.g. a single sector or cell) or as large as an entire network. The
    GSM network itself intelligently knows whom (a roamer of which other
    carrier?) is allowed to roam where (in which Location areas?).

    As I understand the recent liberalization of the GSM roaming agreement
    between Cingular & AT&TWS, the door has simply been thrown wide open.
    Previously, only select Location Areas - primarily those where either
    Cingular or AT&TWS lacked coincident GSM coverage - were available to
    the GSM roamers of the other. But now all Location Areas of both GSM
    networks have been made available to all subs of either carrier. In
    areas of coincident coverage, a user may freely select either Cingular
    or AT&TWS network. And in areas where one is lacking coverage, the
    other fills the niche. The preceding should be true for GSM/GPRS -
    perhaps EDGE (wherever applicable for Cingular) as well - regardless
    of 850 MHz, 1900 MHz, or combined deployment.

    If you should acquire a GSM/GPRS 850/1800/1900 Cingular Blackberry
    7280, then you should be able to do a manual or automatic network
    selection in order to freely utilize the available AT&TWS GSM/GPRS
    coverage at your house. The only caveat is that - unless the
    Blackberry has the capability to manually select a frequency band
    preference - you would likely be subject to the whims of AT&TWS as to
    850 MHz or 1900 MHz. My understanding is that many AT&TWS GSM/GPRS
    850/1900 sites use primarily or only a 1900 MHz BCCH. In other words,
    an idle mobile will camp on a GSM 1900 BCCH but may be assigned to
    traffic on a TCH or PDTCH on either 1900 MHz or 850 MHz.

    John Navas, I suspect, could either correct or corroborate all of the
    above. But I no longer notice his presence in the newsgroup. John,
    are you still here?

    Andrew
    --
    Andrew Shepherd
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/



  14. #14
    PCW
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    Andrews,
    I appreciate your comprehensive response - thanks very much!

    PCW



  15. #15
    Sterling Jaynes
    Guest

    Re: Cingular's new GSM network upgrade....

    "No Access" generally means your handset is being denied registration.
    "No Service" would mean that your not receiving a signal.

    I would go to a Cingular store and get them to replace your SIM free of
    charge.
    Your Ericsson phone is called a World phone because it can receive 1800/1900
    MHz ONLY (not 800MHz (US) 900 MHz (Foreign) like other newer World phones).
    As long as your network settings are not restricting your phone to 1800 MHz
    you should be picking up the Cingular 1900 MHz network in the Bay Area with
    no problem. But if your getting No Access, something is wrong with your SIM
    or your account because your being denied registration in this system.

    "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Boris,
    > I'm not sure you fully read my posting. The problem is with Ericsson
    > World phones that Cingular sold until recently. I also have an old
    > Nokia phone that works fine, but it is a single band phone not a world
    > phone.
    >
    > Does anyone out there have an Ericsson world phone and have problems
    > with Cingular's new Network upgrade.
    >
    > When I turn my phone on it comes up with Cingular on the screen and
    > then after a couple minutes I get a message saying "No Access". At
    > first this only happened on the weekends and then recently it started
    > to happen all the time.
    >
    > Daniel.
    >
    > "Boris Dynin" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<4T%[email protected]>...
    > > I think you're mistaken.
    > > I'm in SF Bay Area also.
    > > I'm with Cingular and my *old* Nokia phone (at least 3 years old) works

    just
    > > fine.
    > >
    > > Boris
    > > "Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I'm a Cingular customer in the San Francisco bay area. Where Cingular
    > > > has recently changed over their GSM network from 1900Mhz to a mixture
    > > > of 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. Cingular no longer supports my Ericsson T28
    > > > World phone as it is 1900Mhz and 900Mhz only. I bought my phone from
    > > > Cingular less than 2 years ago for $200. When I called Cingular
    > > > support to complain about the issue they flatly denied that they have
    > > > changed anything on their GSM network and told me that it is a problem
    > > > with my phone. I explained my phone works fine when I travel outside
    > > > of the Cingular's bay area network. They still insisted my phone was
    > > > broken and told me to buy a new one. Nothing I said could get them to
    > > > admit that they had changed their Network, even when I told them that
    > > > the Cingular store had informed me of the Network change they still
    > > > denied it. I also asked for a list of phones that Cingular supports
    > > > and they said they did not have that information.
    > > > I checked their web site and they no longer sell World phones, they
    > > > only sell GSM phones that use 850Mhz and 1900Mhz.
    > > > Can someone can point me to some Solid information I can use to get
    > > > them to admit that they no longer support my phone.
    > > > I'm really amazed that Cingular think it is ok to lie about this!
    > > > Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have a spare phone that I
    > > > use, but it is as heavy as a brick and I am sick of it.
    > > > Daniel.






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