T637 Cingular - Cannot select network?

I got a new T637, i think its an unlocked phone ( <**< shows unlocked
icon for all four, and i could put in another AT&T SIM and make
calls).

But ..

But, when I go to Connect->GSM networks, I don't see the following
options I usually expect to see.

New Search
Preferred nets
Search Mode and
Select Network

are missing!

Has Cingular disabled it deliberately? Do they have a policy to enable
this?

thanks!

-driz

---

› See More: T637 Cingular - Cannot select network?

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 14 Aug 2004 10:09:29
-0700, [email protected] (DRIZAII) wrote:

>I got a new T637, i think its an unlocked phone ( <**< shows unlocked
>icon for all four, and i could put in another AT&T SIM and make
>calls).
>
>But ..
>
>But, when I go to Connect->GSM networks, I don't see the following
>options I usually expect to see.
>
>New Search
>Preferred nets
>Search Mode and
>Select Network
>
>are missing!
>
>Has Cingular disabled it deliberately? Do they have a policy to enable
>this?

It might well be due to modified firmware in the phone, in which case the only
solution would be to have the phone flashed with standard T637 firmware.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

I think Cingular disables this capability in the SIM. I have both a
Nokia 6200 and a Treo 600, and neither phone will let you "browse" the
available networks. The option just isn't there. I also have a China
Mobile prepaid SIM that I've used in both phones, and when I do that, I
can browse. My conclusion: Cingular will decide what you connect to!


DRIZAII wrote:
> I got a new T637, i think its an unlocked phone ( <**< shows unlocked
> icon for all four, and i could put in another AT&T SIM and make
> calls).
>
> But ..
>
> But, when I go to Connect->GSM networks, I don't see the following
> options I usually expect to see.
>
> New Search
> Preferred nets
> Search Mode and
> Select Network
>
> are missing!
>
> Has Cingular disabled it deliberately? Do they have a policy to enable
> this?
>
> thanks!
>
> -driz

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on 14 Aug 2004 10:09:29
> -0700, [email protected] (DRIZAII) wrote:
>
> >I got a new T637, i think its an unlocked phone ( <**< shows unlocked
> >icon for all four, and i could put in another AT&T SIM and make
> >calls).
> >
> >But ..
> >
> >But, when I go to Connect->GSM networks, I don't see the following
> >options I usually expect to see.
> >
> >New Search
> >Preferred nets
> >Search Mode and
> >Select Network
> >
> >are missing!
> >
> >Has Cingular disabled it deliberately? Do they have a policy to enable
> >this?
>
> It might well be due to modified firmware in the phone, in which case the only
> solution would be to have the phone flashed with standard T637 firmware.

How do i flash with old firmware?
Any web link to get info about available FW versions and difference
between FW versions?

thanks.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:07:17 -0500,
PriusGeek25 <[email protected]> wrote:

>... My conclusion: Cingular will decide what you connect to!

That's true with *any* carrier.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 14 Aug 2004 15:39:59
-0700, [email protected] (DRIZAII) wrote:

>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>> It might well be due to modified firmware in the phone, in which case the only
>> solution would be to have the phone flashed with standard T637 firmware.
>
>How do i flash with old firmware?

Perhaps SE will do it. If not, check around for a flashing service.

>Any web link to get info about available FW versions and difference
>between FW versions?

Perhaps, but not that I know of -- "Google is your friend."

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> >... My conclusion: Cingular will decide what you connect to!
>
> That's true with *any* carrier.

True, but some give you a little flexibility- I recently crossed
Nebraska with my T-Mo handset and was allowed to roam on either Viaero
Wireless or Western Wireless. Since Viaero supports both CSD and GPRS
data and Western supported neither, I used the System Selection
function to choose Viaero whenever available.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 14 Aug 2004 21:42:14
-0700, [email protected] (Todd Allcock) wrote:

>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> >... My conclusion: Cingular will decide what you connect to!
>>
>> That's true with *any* carrier.
>
>True, but some give you a little flexibility- I recently crossed
>Nebraska with my T-Mo handset and was allowed to roam on either Viaero
>Wireless or Western Wireless. Since Viaero supports both CSD and GPRS
>data and Western supported neither, I used the System Selection
>function to choose Viaero whenever available.

Indeed -- my point was just that it's always controlled by the carrier.
In my case, while Cingular prohibits roaming on ATTWS, ATTWS permits free
roaming on Cingular, so that I'm on ATTWS I can select either ATTWS or
Cingular in my phone, much like in your example.

Hmmm... ATTWS doesn't support CSD, but Cingular does. I wonder if I could
get CSD on Nights and Weekends (which are free on my ATTWS plan) by selecting
Cingular? Probably not, but I'm going to at least give it a try the next time
I'm in a Cingular coverage area. Thanks for making me think about it!

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

> Indeed -- my point was just that it's always controlled by the carrier.

True. I'm surprised any carrier allows manual selection in the first
place. Usually all it does is p*ss me off as a customer because when
I do lose T-Mo's signal, a search tells me AT&T is available but
doesn't let me select it! ;-)

> Hmmm... ATTWS doesn't support CSD, but Cingular does. I wonder if I could
> get CSD on Nights and Weekends (which are free on my ATTWS plan) by selecting
> Cingular? Probably not, but I'm going to at least give it a try the next time
> I'm in a Cingular coverage area. Thanks for making me think about it!

I'll bet you could- assuming Cingular allows CSD for roamers (they
probably do so T-Mo customers can use it in shared network areas) I
don't see why your phone or SIM wouldn't.

I was stunned I could use CSD while roaming on Viaero last week- it
was the first time I'd ever been able to use data while roaming.
Westlink in Kansas didn't allow (or support) it, and in my old
Cingular TDMA days, I usually roamed on AT&T who didn't support it.

Frankly I should've stuck with GPRS. I used a few kb on Viaero as a
test and haven't been charged for it. Either T-Mo and Viaero have an
agreement about it, or Viaero hasn't officially started offering GPRS
(their website says it's coming in "late 2004"- perhaps the network is
"open" for testing?)

But I'd give CSD while roaming on Cingular a try- I suspect you may
have found a loophole! ;-)

Okay .. here is what I find out from newsgroups, howardfourm, and the
cingular store:

1) Eventhough Cingular has bought AT&T the merger is not complete when
it comes to infrastructure consolidation.

2) AT&T's SIMs allow you to search for available networks, and select
other available networks. Users have the option to manually select the
network they want (phone will always try to use this network; no
connetion if the selected NW is absent) or set it to 'automatic' (the
phone decides the network to use based on signal strength).

3) The above setup has been great for bayarea because South bay (San
Jose, Santa clara) etc have pretty good Cingular coverage while
Peninsula and SF have good AT&T coverage .. and i could select the
carrier i want depending on the area i am in.

4) Eventhough Cingular gives out unlocked phones, they disable the GSM
network select option in their SIMs. As a result I don't have a way to
force my T637 to use AT&T instead of Cingular.

5) The drawback with the above system is this: If there is a faint
Cingular signal in a particular area, the phone is going to try to use
the Cingular signal instead of a more strong ATT signal. This is
exactly whats happening in my apartment where ATT is good, but the SIM
doesn't allow the use of ATT. As a result i get crappy connection in
my apartment.

6) As far as I know there is no way to program the Cingular SIM to
accept other networks. If there is one, I would gladly take the
suggestion.

7) There is one trick I could do .. to insert an ATT SIM to my
cingular T637 phone, select the network to ATT, set the search mode to
Manual instead of automatic. Now if i put back the Cingular SIM the
phone would remember the ATT network selection and remain in ATT. But
I don't know on what conditions this will revert back to Cingular
network and whether it would go back to ATT network in a place where
ATT signal is stronger than Cingular.

8) All this would be a non-issue in an years time .. when ATT and
Cingular start to look and behave the same. But till that time i don't
want to be forced to use Cingular when i know another carrier who has
a stornger presence and free roaming agreement is available for me to
use. So i am thinking of cancelling Cingular service.










[email protected] (Todd Allcock) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> > Indeed -- my point was just that it's always controlled by the carrier.
>
> True. I'm surprised any carrier allows manual selection in the first
> place. Usually all it does is p*ss me off as a customer because when
> I do lose T-Mo's signal, a search tells me AT&T is available but
> doesn't let me select it! ;-)
>
> > Hmmm... ATTWS doesn't support CSD, but Cingular does. I wonder if I could
> > get CSD on Nights and Weekends (which are free on my ATTWS plan) by selecting
> > Cingular? Probably not, but I'm going to at least give it a try the next time
> > I'm in a Cingular coverage area. Thanks for making me think about it!
>
> I'll bet you could- assuming Cingular allows CSD for roamers (they
> probably do so T-Mo customers can use it in shared network areas) I
> don't see why your phone or SIM wouldn't.
>
> I was stunned I could use CSD while roaming on Viaero last week- it
> was the first time I'd ever been able to use data while roaming.
> Westlink in Kansas didn't allow (or support) it, and in my old
> Cingular TDMA days, I usually roamed on AT&T who didn't support it.
>
> Frankly I should've stuck with GPRS. I used a few kb on Viaero as a
> test and haven't been charged for it. Either T-Mo and Viaero have an
> agreement about it, or Viaero hasn't officially started offering GPRS
> (their website says it's coming in "late 2004"- perhaps the network is
> "open" for testing?)
>
> But I'd give CSD while roaming on Cingular a try- I suspect you may
> have found a loophole! ;-)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 15 Aug 2004 23:07:08
-0700, [email protected] (DRIZAII) wrote:

>Okay .. here is what I find out from newsgroups, howardfourm, and the
>cingular store:
>
>1) Eventhough Cingular has bought AT&T the merger is not complete when
>it comes to infrastructure consolidation.

Cingular hasn't yet bought ATTWS. There is a definitive merger agreement, but
it's not expected to close until the 4th quarter. Until then, very little is
going on other than prep for the merger.

>2) AT&T's SIMs allow you to search for available networks, and select
>other available networks. Users have the option to manually select the
>network they want (phone will always try to use this network; no
>connetion if the selected NW is absent) or set it to 'automatic' (the
>phone decides the network to use based on signal strength).

ATTWS only allows roaming and network selection on networks with which it has
roaming agreements, which now includes Cingular.

>3) The above setup has been great for bayarea because South bay (San
>Jose, Santa clara) etc have pretty good Cingular coverage while
>Peninsula and SF have good AT&T coverage .. and i could select the
>carrier i want depending on the area i am in.

Even better, the phone will do this automatically. But it's only great for
ATTWS subscribers, because Cingular prohibits roaming on ATTWS.

>4) Eventhough Cingular gives out unlocked phones, they disable the GSM
>network select option in their SIMs. As a result I don't have a way to
>force my T637 to use AT&T instead of Cingular.

Even if you could see the ATTWS network you wouldn't be able to force use of
it, because roaming on ATTWS is prohibited by Cingular.

>5) The drawback with the above system is this: If there is a faint
>Cingular signal in a particular area, the phone is going to try to use
>the Cingular signal instead of a more strong ATT signal. This is
>exactly whats happening in my apartment where ATT is good, but the SIM
>doesn't allow the use of ATT. As a result i get crappy connection in
>my apartment.

Because you use Cingular.

>6) As far as I know there is no way to program the Cingular SIM to
>accept other networks. If there is one, I would gladly take the
>suggestion.

There is no way.

>7) There is one trick I could do .. to insert an ATT SIM to my
>cingular T637 phone, select the network to ATT, set the search mode to
>Manual instead of automatic.

That won't work in a Cingular locked phone, only in an unlocked phone.

>Now if i put back the Cingular SIM the
>phone would remember the ATT network selection and remain in ATT. ...

Nope. It remembers nothing. It will do a new search according to the current
SIM.

>8) All this would be a non-issue in an years time .. when ATT and
>Cingular start to look and behave the same.

That remains to be seen.

>But till that time i don't
>want to be forced to use Cingular when i know another carrier who has
>a stornger presence and free roaming agreement is available for me to
>use. So i am thinking of cancelling Cingular service.

Indeed -- switch to ATTWS (as I did).

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

Thanks John Navas


John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on 15 Aug 2004 23:07:08
> -0700, [email protected] (DRIZAII) wrote:
>
> >Okay .. here is what I find out from newsgroups, howardfourm, and the
> >cingular store:
> >
> >1) Eventhough Cingular has bought AT&T the merger is not complete when
> >it comes to infrastructure consolidation.
>
> Cingular hasn't yet bought ATTWS. There is a definitive merger agreement, but
> it's not expected to close until the 4th quarter. Until then, very little is
> going on other than prep for the merger.
>
> >2) AT&T's SIMs allow you to search for available networks, and select
> >other available networks. Users have the option to manually select the
> >network they want (phone will always try to use this network; no
> >connetion if the selected NW is absent) or set it to 'automatic' (the
> >phone decides the network to use based on signal strength).
>
> ATTWS only allows roaming and network selection on networks with which it has
> roaming agreements, which now includes Cingular.
>
> >3) The above setup has been great for bayarea because South bay (San
> >Jose, Santa clara) etc have pretty good Cingular coverage while
> >Peninsula and SF have good AT&T coverage .. and i could select the
> >carrier i want depending on the area i am in.
>
> Even better, the phone will do this automatically. But it's only great for
> ATTWS subscribers, because Cingular prohibits roaming on ATTWS.
>
> >4) Eventhough Cingular gives out unlocked phones, they disable the GSM
> >network select option in their SIMs. As a result I don't have a way to
> >force my T637 to use AT&T instead of Cingular.
>
> Even if you could see the ATTWS network you wouldn't be able to force use of
> it, because roaming on ATTWS is prohibited by Cingular.
>
> >5) The drawback with the above system is this: If there is a faint
> >Cingular signal in a particular area, the phone is going to try to use
> >the Cingular signal instead of a more strong ATT signal. This is
> >exactly whats happening in my apartment where ATT is good, but the SIM
> >doesn't allow the use of ATT. As a result i get crappy connection in
> >my apartment.
>
> Because you use Cingular.
>
> >6) As far as I know there is no way to program the Cingular SIM to
> >accept other networks. If there is one, I would gladly take the
> >suggestion.
>
> There is no way.
>
> >7) There is one trick I could do .. to insert an ATT SIM to my
> >cingular T637 phone, select the network to ATT, set the search mode to
> >Manual instead of automatic.
>
> That won't work in a Cingular locked phone, only in an unlocked phone.
>
> >Now if i put back the Cingular SIM the
> >phone would remember the ATT network selection and remain in ATT. ...
>
> Nope. It remembers nothing. It will do a new search according to the current
> SIM.
>
> >8) All this would be a non-issue in an years time .. when ATT and
> >Cingular start to look and behave the same.
>
> That remains to be seen.
>
> >But till that time i don't
> >want to be forced to use Cingular when i know another carrier who has
> >a stornger presence and free roaming agreement is available for me to
> >use. So i am thinking of cancelling Cingular service.
>
> Indeed -- switch to ATTWS (as I did).

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 15 Aug 2004 15:22:10
-0700, [email protected] (Todd Allcock) wrote:

>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>> Hmmm... ATTWS doesn't support CSD, but Cingular does. I wonder if I could
>> get CSD on Nights and Weekends (which are free on my ATTWS plan) by selecting
>> Cingular? Probably not, but I'm going to at least give it a try the next time
>> I'm in a Cingular coverage area. Thanks for making me think about it!
>
>I'll bet you could- assuming Cingular allows CSD for roamers (they
>probably do so T-Mo customers can use it in shared network areas) I
>don't see why your phone or SIM wouldn't.
>
>I was stunned I could use CSD while roaming on Viaero last week- it
>was the first time I'd ever been able to use data while roaming.
>Westlink in Kansas didn't allow (or support) it, and in my old
>Cingular TDMA days, I usually roamed on AT&T who didn't support it.
>...
>But I'd give CSD while roaming on Cingular a try- I suspect you may
>have found a loophole! ;-)

Thus far I've only tried using Cingular CSD while on the ATTWS network, and
that isn't working. Later today I plan to try Cingular CSD while roaming on
the Cingular network (which doesn't cover my current location).

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 15 Aug 2004 15:22:10
-0700, [email protected] (Todd Allcock) wrote:

>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>> Hmmm... ATTWS doesn't support CSD, but Cingular does. I wonder if I could
>> get CSD on Nights and Weekends (which are free on my ATTWS plan) by selecting
>> Cingular? Probably not, but I'm going to at least give it a try the next time
>> I'm in a Cingular coverage area. Thanks for making me think about it!
>
>I'll bet you could- assuming Cingular allows CSD for roamers (they
>probably do so T-Mo customers can use it in shared network areas) I
>don't see why your phone or SIM wouldn't.
>
>I was stunned I could use CSD while roaming on Viaero last week- it
>was the first time I'd ever been able to use data while roaming.
>Westlink in Kansas didn't allow (or support) it, and in my old
>Cingular TDMA days, I usually roamed on AT&T who didn't support it.
>...
>But I'd give CSD while roaming on Cingular a try- I suspect you may
>have found a loophole! ;-)

'Fraid not -- I tested it today, and it looks like Cingular has blocked CSD
connections for roamers. [sigh]

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
> 'Fraid not -- I tested it today, and it looks like Cingular has blocked CSD
> connections for roamers. [sigh]

That's unfortunate. Have you tested using CSD between phones? Since
that doesn't require extra hardware in the CO, it may work.

As an aside. T-Mobile lets you do CSD between phones, and counts it as
standard voice - so if you have unlimited mobile to mobile, you have
unlimited CSD. I found this quite handy before they had flat rate
GPRS. Back when AT&T launched their GSM service, and was offering
unlimited minutes for something like $100/month for early adopters,
Steve Wozniak got on that plan to try to do wireless data, and was
very disappointed to learn that AT&T didn't support CSD. A strange
sequence of events resulted in me having dinner with him, and showing
him this setup