EDGE/GPRS Shootout: V551, GC82, Z600

Location: Burlingame, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
Signal: Good (3+ bars)
Carrier: Cingular Wireless
Data package: MEdia Works
Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
Compressed test file from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
Only downlink tested

* Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 96.66Seconds 10.85Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 98.93Seconds 10.60Kbytes/sec.

* Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 104.60Seconds 10.02Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 95.85Seconds 10.94Kbytes/sec.

* Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 194.63Seconds 5.39Kbytes/sec.

CONCLUSIONS:

* The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
* EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully optimized

I plan to test uplink sometime soon.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: EDGE/GPRS Shootout: V551, GC82, Z600

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| Location: Burlingame, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
| Signal: Good (3+ bars)
| Carrier: Cingular Wireless
| Data package: MEdia Works
| Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
| OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
| App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
| Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
| Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
| Compressed test file from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
| Only downlink tested
|
| * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
| Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
| ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 96.66Seconds 10.85Kbytes/sec.
| ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 98.93Seconds 10.60Kbytes/sec.
|
| * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
| PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
| ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 104.60Seconds 10.02Kbytes/sec.
| ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 95.85Seconds 10.94Kbytes/sec.
|
| * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
| Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
| ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 194.63Seconds 5.39Kbytes/sec.
|
| CONCLUSIONS:
|
| * The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
| * EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully optimized
|
| I plan to test uplink sometime soon.
|

Nice, useful comparison. Thanks for the time and posting!

did you try the V551 with direct connection? Maybe Bluetooth link held it
back? Bluetooth isn't known for speed.

--
Steve
"Hierophant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> | Location: Burlingame, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
> | Signal: Good (3+ bars)
> | Carrier: Cingular Wireless
> | Data package: MEdia Works
> | Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
> | OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
> | App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
> | Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
> | Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
> | Compressed test file from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
> | Only downlink tested
> |
> | * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
> | Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 96.66Seconds 10.85Kbytes/sec.
> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 98.93Seconds 10.60Kbytes/sec.
> |
> | * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
> | PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 104.60Seconds 10.02Kbytes/sec.
> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 95.85Seconds 10.94Kbytes/sec.
> |
> | * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
> | Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 194.63Seconds 5.39Kbytes/sec.
> |
> | CONCLUSIONS:
> |
> | * The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
> | * EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully
> optimized
> |
> | I plan to test uplink sometime soon.
> |
>
> Nice, useful comparison. Thanks for the time and posting!
>
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 13 Nov 2004
17:30:38 GMT, "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote:

>did you try the V551 with direct connection?

No.

>Maybe Bluetooth link held it
>back?

Very doubtful, since the PC Card was no faster.

>Bluetooth isn't known for speed.

Bluetooth has more than enough speed for EDGE, and very low latency.

>Steve
>"Hierophant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> | Location: Burlingame, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
>> | Signal: Good (3+ bars)
>> | Carrier: Cingular Wireless
>> | Data package: MEdia Works
>> | Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
>> | OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
>> | App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
>> | Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
>> | Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
>> | Compressed test file from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
>> | Only downlink tested
>> |
>> | * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
>> | Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
>> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 96.66Seconds 10.85Kbytes/sec.
>> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 98.93Seconds 10.60Kbytes/sec.
>> |
>> | * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
>> | PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
>> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 104.60Seconds 10.02Kbytes/sec.
>> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 95.85Seconds 10.94Kbytes/sec.
>> |
>> | * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
>> | Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
>> | ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 194.63Seconds 5.39Kbytes/sec.
>> |
>> | CONCLUSIONS:
>> |
>> | * The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
>> | * EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully
>> optimized
>> |
>> | I plan to test uplink sometime soon.
>> |
>>
>> Nice, useful comparison. Thanks for the time and posting!
>>
>>
>

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

NEW TESTS:

Location: Dublin, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
Signal: Strong (4-5 bars)
Carrier: Cingular Wireless
Data package: MEdia Works
Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
Compressed test file to/from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)

RESULTS:

* The GC82 can be 50% faster than the V551 on downlink
(presumably 3 time slots when available, versus 2 time slots)
* EDGE is 2.5x-3.5x GPRS on downlink (depending on device)
* The GC82 is twice as fast as the V551 on uplink
(presumably 2 time slots versus 1 time slot)
* EDGE is 4.5x-8.5x GPRS on uplink (depending on device)

DATA:

* Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
UPLINK
ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 163.76Seconds 6.40Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 162.92Seconds 6.44Kbytes/sec.
DOWNLINK
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.58Seconds 12.40Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.66Seconds 12.39Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 85.04Seconds 12.33Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 86.07Seconds 12.18Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 81.32Seconds 12.89Kbytes/sec.

* Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
UPLINK
ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 93.13Seconds 11.26Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 89.61Seconds 11.70Kbytes/sec.
DOWNLINK
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.97Seconds 17.20Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 80.99Seconds 12.95Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 58.23Seconds 18.01Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 89.07Seconds 11.77Kbytes/sec.
ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.51Seconds 17.33Kbytes/sec.

* Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
UPLINK
ftp: 262144 bytes sent in 191.41Seconds 1.37Kbytes/sec.
DOWNLINK
ftp: 262144 bytes received in 50.22Seconds 5.22Kbytes/sec.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Disagree with you on your Bluetooth comment.
Bluetooth Class 2 is a low speed connection. Typical bit rate won't exceed
12kbps. That's why Bluetooth isn't used for MP3 ringtones, can't handle the
wider bandwidth.

The end results may or may not be the same but from my experience, syncing
Mobile Phone tools to a Mot. phone via Bluetooth vs. direct connection takes
alot longer.

--
Steve
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> NEW TESTS:
>
> Location: Dublin, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
> Signal: Strong (4-5 bars)
> Carrier: Cingular Wireless
> Data package: MEdia Works
> Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
> OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
> App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
> Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
> Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
> Compressed test file to/from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
>
> RESULTS:
>
> * The GC82 can be 50% faster than the V551 on downlink
> (presumably 3 time slots when available, versus 2 time slots)
> * EDGE is 2.5x-3.5x GPRS on downlink (depending on device)
> * The GC82 is twice as fast as the V551 on uplink
> (presumably 2 time slots versus 1 time slot)
> * EDGE is 4.5x-8.5x GPRS on uplink (depending on device)
>
> DATA:
>
> * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
> UPLINK
> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 163.76Seconds 6.40Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 162.92Seconds 6.44Kbytes/sec.
> DOWNLINK
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.58Seconds 12.40Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.66Seconds 12.39Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 85.04Seconds 12.33Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 86.07Seconds 12.18Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 81.32Seconds 12.89Kbytes/sec.
>
> * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
> PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
> UPLINK
> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 93.13Seconds 11.26Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 89.61Seconds 11.70Kbytes/sec.
> DOWNLINK
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.97Seconds 17.20Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 80.99Seconds 12.95Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 58.23Seconds 18.01Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 89.07Seconds 11.77Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.51Seconds 17.33Kbytes/sec.
>
> * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
> UPLINK
> ftp: 262144 bytes sent in 191.41Seconds 1.37Kbytes/sec.
> DOWNLINK
> ftp: 262144 bytes received in 50.22Seconds 5.22Kbytes/sec.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| Disagree with you on your Bluetooth comment.
| Bluetooth Class 2 is a low speed connection. Typical bit rate won't
exceed
| 12kbps. That's why Bluetooth isn't used for MP3 ringtones, can't handle
the
| wider bandwidth.
|
| The end results may or may not be the same but from my experience, syncing
| Mobile Phone tools to a Mot. phone via Bluetooth vs. direct connection
takes
| alot longer.
|

That is way incorrect. I have used bluetooth for a short range PAN and have
attained well over 500kbps actual file transfer speeds. That is way higher
than the speeds edge is capable of in the first place.

If look at my hard data, you'll see that Bluetooth (V551) is just as fast as a
direct PC Card connection (GC82), and lots faster (at 13 KBYTES/sec) than 12
Kbps (far more than fast enough for MP3 streaming).

All current Bluetooth devices operate at the same speeds, which are far higher
than 12 Kbps. From a Verizon Bluetooth FAQ:

Bluetooth supports both voice and data. The voice channels operate at
64 kbit/s. The Bluetooth 1.0 data rates include an asymmetric data
rate (one way) of 721 kbit/s (while permitting 57.6 kbit/s in the
return direction); and a symmetric data rate of 432.6 kbit/s.
Bluetooth 2.0 has been designed to be backward compatible with
existing Bluetooth devices, and will offer data transmission rates up
to 12 Mbps.

Bluetooth Classes are a matter of power and range, not speed. From the same
Verizon Bluetooth FAQ:

There are three classes of Bluetooth devices: Class 1, 2, and 3. The
class specifies the transmit power of the device which affects the
range (higher transmit power allows greater range). The Motorola V710
is a Bluetooth Class 2 device. The Motorola V710 can be used with
Bluetooth Class 1, 2, or 3 accessories up to a maximum range of 33
feet (10 meters).

Your speed difference for Bluetooth syncing versus cable syncing is probably
due to a virtual serial port running at slow speed, the default 115 Kbps. Try
pushing the port speed up as high as possible -- I run mine at much higher
speeds, and the difference is substantial.

p.s. Why/how would you think Bluetooth would/could be used for MP3 ringtones?


In <[email protected]> on Wed, 17 Nov 2004
00:13:19 GMT, "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Disagree with you on your Bluetooth comment.
>Bluetooth Class 2 is a low speed connection. Typical bit rate won't exceed
>12kbps. That's why Bluetooth isn't used for MP3 ringtones, can't handle the
>wider bandwidth.
>
>The end results may or may not be the same but from my experience, syncing
>Mobile Phone tools to a Mot. phone via Bluetooth vs. direct connection takes
>alot longer.

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> NEW TESTS:
>>
>> Location: Dublin, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
>> Signal: Strong (4-5 bars)
>> Carrier: Cingular Wireless
>> Data package: MEdia Works
>> Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
>> OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
>> App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
>> Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
>> Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
>> Compressed test file to/from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
>>
>> RESULTS:
>>
>> * The GC82 can be 50% faster than the V551 on downlink
>> (presumably 3 time slots when available, versus 2 time slots)
>> * EDGE is 2.5x-3.5x GPRS on downlink (depending on device)
>> * The GC82 is twice as fast as the V551 on uplink
>> (presumably 2 time slots versus 1 time slot)
>> * EDGE is 4.5x-8.5x GPRS on uplink (depending on device)
>>
>> DATA:
>>
>> * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
>> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
>> UPLINK
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 163.76Seconds 6.40Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 162.92Seconds 6.44Kbytes/sec.
>> DOWNLINK
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.58Seconds 12.40Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 84.66Seconds 12.39Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 85.04Seconds 12.33Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 86.07Seconds 12.18Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 81.32Seconds 12.89Kbytes/sec.
>>
>> * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
>> PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
>> UPLINK
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 93.13Seconds 11.26Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes sent in 89.61Seconds 11.70Kbytes/sec.
>> DOWNLINK
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.97Seconds 17.20Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 80.99Seconds 12.95Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 58.23Seconds 18.01Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 89.07Seconds 11.77Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 60.51Seconds 17.33Kbytes/sec.
>>
>> * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
>> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
>> UPLINK
>> ftp: 262144 bytes sent in 191.41Seconds 1.37Kbytes/sec.
>> DOWNLINK
>> ftp: 262144 bytes received in 50.22Seconds 5.22Kbytes/sec.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Location: Burlingame, California (San Francisco Bay Area)
> Signal: Good (3+ bars)
> Carrier: Cingular Wireless
> Data package: MEdia Works
> Computer: IBM ThinkPad 600X (Pentium III 650 MHz, 320 MB)
> OS: Windows XP Pro SP2
> App: Windows FTP commandline client, binary mode
> Bluetooth stack: Windows XP SP2
> Bluetooth dongle: Belkin F8T003
> Compressed test file from my regular ISP (Sonic.net)
> Only downlink tested
>
> * Motorola V551 (EDGE Class 4, brand new):
> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 460 Kbps, Windows DUN
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 96.66Seconds 10.85Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 98.93Seconds 10.60Kbytes/sec.
>
> * Sony Ericsson GC82 (EDGE Class 10, latest firmware):
> PC Card with Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 104.60Seconds 10.02Kbytes/sec.
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 95.85Seconds 10.94Kbytes/sec.
>
> * Sony Ericsson Z600 (GPRS Class 10, not latest firmware):
> Bluetooth virtual serial port at 230 Kbps, Windows DUN
> ftp: 1048576 bytes received in 194.63Seconds 5.39Kbytes/sec.
>
> CONCLUSIONS:
>
> * The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
> * EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully optimized
>
> I plan to test uplink sometime soon.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

This is a good relative attempt to do a comparison. As far as EDGE vs GPRS,
you cant really make a comparison and draw that EDGE is not fully optimized.
Your EDGE throughput WILL depend on your location, i.e. the cell you are
connected to (amount of traffic on spans), not necessarily on signal
strength.
Brian

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:14:07 -0600, "Brian
Oakley" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> CONCLUSIONS:
>>
>> * The V551 performed well with EDGE, on par with the benchmark GC82
>> * EDGE was only 2x GPRS (Z600), suggesting it's not (yet) fully optimized

>... As far as EDGE vs GPRS,
>you cant really make a comparison and draw that EDGE is not fully optimized.
>Your EDGE throughput WILL depend on your location, i.e. the cell you are
>connected to (amount of traffic on spans), not necessarily on signal
>strength.

My comment was based more on the fact that the EDGE connections were using
only 2 downlink time slots. Since then I've seen connections with 3 downlink
time slots, so it's probably varying by tower load.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

UPDATE:

I continue to be impressed with Cingular EDGE performance and the Sony
Ericsson GC82 EDGE PC Card -- I'm usually getting 18.6 KBytes/sec throughout
on downlink in strong signal areas.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>