Will Verizon soon overtake Cingular as Number One ?

I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular which will (and is) have
trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless, witness the the switch of AT&T
stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.

Now I have a URL for Navas who insist that his beloved Cingular will
stay number one.

" Several analysts and industry experts have said the combined company
might not hold its lead for long, as both Cingular and AT&T Wireless
have suffered from high customer defections, also known as churn, this
year. "

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20041201
/bs_nm/telecoms_cingular_outlook_dc&sid=95573419>

---

› See More: Will Verizon soon overtake Cingular as Number One ?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
> that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
> number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular which will (and is) have
> trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless, witness the the switch of AT&T
> stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.
>

Verizon is also looking at a dark cloud on the horizon. Their
nationwide coverage is solely dependent on the ability to fall back on
the analog AMPS coverage provided by roaming partners when customers
move out of a CDMA digital area. A *VERY* high number of those partners
are currently TDMA/AMPS and are now or will be soon converting to
GSM/AMPS. When the requirement to provide AMPS coverage sunsets in 2007
most carriers will quickly drop analog. Unless Verizon implements a GSM
backup plan before then their national coverage is going to drop
DRASTICALLY. Take a look at the "national enhanced services" and "IN"
maps if you want to get an idea as to just how thin the native CDMA
coverage really is in this country. The number of Verizon customers who
will be forced to bail out in order to have phone service at all will
make any Cingular/ATTWS churn pale to nothing.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 02 Dec
2004 03:01:01 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
>that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
>number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular

You've long been saying lots of silly things.

>which will (and is) have
>trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless,

No evidence of that so far.

>witness the the switch of AT&T
>stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.

That's the website, and is utterly irrelevant.

>Now I have a URL for Navas who insist that his beloved Cingular will
>stay number one.

I've said nothing of the kind.

>" Several analysts and industry experts have said the combined company
>might not hold its lead for long, as both Cingular and AT&T Wireless
>have suffered from high customer defections, also known as churn, this
>year. "
>
><http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20041201
>/bs_nm/telecoms_cingular_outlook_dc&sid=95573419>

The key word there is "might". It "might" also extend it's lead.

Is this the best you can do? LOL

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Verizon refugee De-lurking!

Been an ATT/Cingular customer for a month now. I had been a 10+ year
customer of Verizon, but their broken promises of their clunky
"sometimes digital sometimes analog" network improving in my area made
me shop around at renewal time. 2 years back when my employer
supplied me with an ATT phone the coverage in my town was worse than
Verizon. Today it's better or the same, and now only going to get even
better.

Must add that I was unhappy with Verizon's customer service on a
couple of hardware related issues in my last contract period. For some
reason in this competitive world I thought that a loyal customer could
get a break if they asked - nope, just bend over and smile for the
next 8 months of your contract. ATT's customer service made a good
first impression. It took a couple hours on the phone with several
CSRs, often in a conference call, to transfer four numbers from
Verizon, but they stuck with it (I had them on speaker phone while
working on other desk duties).

Slight favor to ATT was a company discount - but Verizon also had a
similar offer, but it was only on one line. ATT's discount is on all
lines. Contract is for 1 year, got 50% off the cost of hardware
(though many phones were free).

Last - in my opinion, Verizon's selection of phones stink. Always last
to get the new stuff, always cheap brands I never heard of.

Verizon? Never going back.

Happy SE T637 user.

Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
>that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
>number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular which will (and is) have
>trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless, witness the the switch of AT&T
>stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.
>
>Now I have a URL for Navas who insist that his beloved Cingular will
>stay number one.
>
>" Several analysts and industry experts have said the combined company
>might not hold its lead for long, as both Cingular and AT&T Wireless
>have suffered from high customer defections, also known as churn, this
>year. "
>
><http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20041201
>/bs_nm/telecoms_cingular_outlook_dc&sid=95573419>

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:54:12 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Verizon is also looking at a dark cloud on the horizon. Their
>nationwide coverage is solely dependent on the ability to fall back on
>the analog AMPS coverage provided by roaming partners when customers
>move out of a CDMA digital area. A *VERY* high number of those partners
>are currently TDMA/AMPS and are now or will be soon converting to
>GSM/AMPS. When the requirement to provide AMPS coverage sunsets in 2007
>most carriers will quickly drop analog.

The little carriers are going to say, "Thank God we no longer have to
make money from Verizon customers!" ? Why would they do that? If there
is a substantial market, someone will fill it.

>Unless Verizon implements a GSM
>backup plan before then their national coverage is going to drop
>DRASTICALLY. Take a look at the "national enhanced services"

That seems to be just Verizon's own network.

>and "IN"
>maps if you want to get an idea as to just how thin the native CDMA
>coverage really is in this country.

The IN map looks pretty good, and will probably be better in two years
time.

>The number of Verizon customers who
>will be forced to bail out in order to have phone service at all will
>make any Cingular/ATTWS churn pale to nothing.

Think GSM coverage will be better than CDMA in two years time? I think
it's too early to tell, but I'd lean toward no. I don't see either one
with an overwelming lead over the other anytime soon.

Care to look at the numbers?

1. Profit.

2. Capital Investment


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9/b3872045.htm

Verizon Wireless is so profitable it can afford to do whatever it needs
to get and maintain being number 1. Cingular says it will be 2007 before
its profitable for the year.

Cingular is years behind Verizon in 3G deployment, and will be spending
on that rather than TDMA conversion or Network expansion. When and if
the time comes Verizon can spend to convert Analog to CDMA.

It is wishful thinking to think Cingular has ==> any <== advantage over
Verrizon, except perhaps in number of BlueTooth phones they currently
have available.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 02 Dec 2004 07:16:49
GMT, Clyde Coffey <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:54:12 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Verizon is also looking at a dark cloud on the horizon. Their
>>nationwide coverage is solely dependent on the ability to fall back on
>>the analog AMPS coverage provided by roaming partners when customers
>>move out of a CDMA digital area. A *VERY* high number of those partners
>>are currently TDMA/AMPS and are now or will be soon converting to
>>GSM/AMPS. When the requirement to provide AMPS coverage sunsets in 2007
>>most carriers will quickly drop analog.
>
>The little carriers are going to say, "Thank God we no longer have to
>make money from Verizon customers!" ? Why would they do that? If there
>is a substantial market, someone will fill it.

Not necessarily -- both spectrum and carriers are limited, and thus must make
choices; e.g., between GSM and CDMA, with AMPS being dropped due to
inefficiency. This is a real issue for Verizon, as evidenced by the fact that
Verizon has been spending billions on additional spectrum licenses.

>The IN map looks pretty good, and will probably be better in two years
>time.

True, thanks to the mew spectrum licenses. Still, it will be difficult for
Verizon to keep its reach without AMPS.

>Think GSM coverage will be better than CDMA in two years time? I think
>it's too early to tell, but I'd lean toward no. I don't see either one
>with an overwelming lead over the other anytime soon.

GSM coverage is already better than CDMA (without AMPS) now that ATTWS and
Cingular have largely completed their GSM overlays of TDMA, and the plans of
regional carriers bode ill for Verizon.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 02 Dec
2004 09:57:15 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>Verizon Wireless is so profitable it can afford to do whatever it needs
>to get and maintain being number 1.

It doesn't work that way -- spectrum licenses are a finite resource.

>Cingular is years behind Verizon in 3G deployment,

Your ignorance is showing again: Cingular with ATTWS is ahead of Verizon in
both 2.5G (widespread EDGE deployment) and 3G (UMTS deployment).

>and will be spending
>on that rather than TDMA conversion

GSM overlay is largely complete.

>or Network expansion.

Not needed, thanks to the merger.

>When and if
>the time comes Verizon can spend to convert Analog to CDMA.

Verizon has no control over the plans of regional carriers, many (most?) of
which are migrating from TDMA/AMPS to GSM.

>It is wishful thinking to think Cingular has ==> any <== advantage over
>Verrizon, except perhaps in number of BlueTooth phones they currently
>have available.

Cingular actually has several obvious advantages, including the most
subscribers, the widest coverage, the best selection of advanced phones, and
world standard technology.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Justice Gustine <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Verizon refugee De-lurking!
>
> Been an ATT/Cingular customer for a month now. I had been a 10+ year
> customer of Verizon, but their broken promises of their clunky
> "sometimes digital sometimes analog" network improving in my area made
> me shop around at renewal time. 2 years back when my employer
> supplied me with an ATT phone the coverage in my town was worse than
> Verizon. Today it's better or the same, and now only going to get even
> better.
>
> Must add that I was unhappy with Verizon's customer service on a
> couple of hardware related issues in my last contract period. For some
> reason in this competitive world I thought that a loyal customer could
> get a break if they asked - nope, just bend over and smile for the
> next 8 months of your contract. ATT's customer service made a good
> first impression. It took a couple hours on the phone with several
> CSRs, often in a conference call, to transfer four numbers from
> Verizon, but they stuck with it (I had them on speaker phone while
> working on other desk duties).
>
> Slight favor to ATT was a company discount - but Verizon also had a
> similar offer, but it was only on one line. ATT's discount is on all
> lines. Contract is for 1 year, got 50% off the cost of hardware
> (though many phones were free).
>
> Last - in my opinion, Verizon's selection of phones stink. Always last
> to get the new stuff, always cheap brands I never heard of.
>
> Verizon? Never going back.
>
> Happy SE T637 user.
>
> Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
> >that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
> >number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular which will (and is) have
> >trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless, witness the the switch of AT&T
> >stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.
> >
> >Now I have a URL for Navas who insist that his beloved Cingular will
> >stay number one.
> >
> >" Several analysts and industry experts have said the combined company
> >might not hold its lead for long, as both Cingular and AT&T Wireless
> >have suffered from high customer defections, also known as churn, this
> >year. "
> >
> ><http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20041201
> >/bs_nm/telecoms_cingular_outlook_dc&sid=95573419>


I know many folks going to cingular and VERY HAPPY. I am out of
contract right now with Verizon and not sure if I am going to stay. I
am in the Tacoma, WA area so that probably makes a difference as well

> I know many folks going to cingular and VERY HAPPY. I am out of
> contract right now with Verizon and not sure if I am going to stay. I
> am in the Tacoma, WA area so that probably makes a difference as well
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in North Seattle. Been with Verizon for two years, with a contract up in
January. Prior to that was with Cingular, and a bit miffed that I had to
turn the phone off every time I drove through, or flew to Portland, or for
that matter, the entire state of Oregon. Daughter has always claimed good
service with ATT, and aside from the Oregon deal, we never complained about
Cingular. Would assume that with the combination of the two networks things
could only be better now. Cingular customer service was always first rate.
Billing issues dealt with immediately, and without question. Phone
selection is definitely better than VZ. I'm leaning toward giving them
another shot.

DS

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <AAJrd.16783$%C6.14346@trnddc02> on Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:57:36 GMT, "DFS"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I know many folks going to cingular and VERY HAPPY. I am out of
>> contract right now with Verizon and not sure if I am going to stay. I
>> am in the Tacoma, WA area so that probably makes a difference as well
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I'm in North Seattle. Been with Verizon for two years, with a contract up in
>January. Prior to that was with Cingular, and a bit miffed that I had to
>turn the phone off every time I drove through, or flew to Portland, or for
>that matter, the entire state of Oregon. Daughter has always claimed good
>service with ATT, and aside from the Oregon deal, we never complained about
>Cingular. Would assume that with the combination of the two networks things
>could only be better now. Cingular customer service was always first rate.
>Billing issues dealt with immediately, and without question. Phone
>selection is definitely better than VZ. I'm leaning toward giving them
>another shot.

For best coverage, go with a Cingular plan and get a new Cingular phone that
supports ENS, which combines the separate Cingular and ATTWS networks into one
big virtual network. (Otherwise you'll be limited to roaming, which can be
somewhat less effective.)

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"Jack Zwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Care to look at the numbers?
>
> 1. Profit.
>
> 2. Capital Investment
>
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9/b3872045.htm
>
> Verizon Wireless is so profitable it can afford to do whatever it needs
> to get and maintain being number 1. Cingular says it will be 2007 before
> its profitable for the year.
>
> Cingular is years behind Verizon in 3G deployment, and will be spending
> on that rather than TDMA conversion or Network expansion. When and if
> the time comes Verizon can spend to convert Analog to CDMA.
>
> It is wishful thinking to think Cingular has ==> any <== advantage over
> Verrizon, except perhaps in number of BlueTooth phones they currently
> have available.

Your hilarious, and I'll prove why. You are extracting VZW numbers from the
parent company. When others have done this with other companies
(specifically Sprint), you have accused them of providing fale numbers due
to the 'hiding' of the cellular operation within the parent company. How is
this any different.

I smell hypocrisy at work.

Deb,

DON"T do it..... Both AT&T and Cingular SUCK in the
Puget Sound area and really suck in Tacoma.

There is no comparison.


"Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I know many folks going to cingular and VERY HAPPY. I am out of
> contract right now with Verizon and not sure if I am going to stay. I
> am in the Tacoma, WA area so that probably makes a difference as well

Jud Hardcastle <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Verizon is also looking at a dark cloud on the horizon. Their
> nationwide coverage is solely dependent on the ability to fall back on
> the analog AMPS coverage provided by roaming partners when customers
> move out of a CDMA digital area. A *VERY* high number of those
> partners are currently TDMA/AMPS and are now or will be soon
> converting to GSM/AMPS.

Not necessarily. If the roaming partners that are running TDMA will get
better revenue from Verizon Roaming than Cingular roaming, I would think
they would switch to CDMA. It's all going to depend on how strong the
combo Cingular/AT&T network is in the area where previously, one of the
companies relied on the roaming partner. If the combined network removes
the necessity for the roaming parnter, even if they convert to GSM,
there is no incentive for roaming partner to convert to GSM.

While it may seem more logical to go from TDMA to GSM, somebody (who
seemed knowledgeable) in Howard Forums posted that it's actually easier
to overlay TDMA towers with CDMA that it is with GSM. So if a company,
who is/was a roaming partner with either Cingular or AT&T thinks they
are going to lose the business, why not switch to CDMA instead and pick
up Verizon, or maybe even position yourself for a buyout?

With Verizon's recent requisitions, including Mountain Wireless in
California, it seems like their strategy is to buy the small companies
where they either need coverage or spectrum. I think by buying these
smaller companies that generally excel in strong local coverage, Verizon
could actually end up with the superior network.

Cingular isn't interested in having much more than "basic" coverage in
more rural areas, at least where I live, while the local carrier has a
superior network. If Verizon were to buy them, they would score big
time.

Just my two cents...

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:30:20 GMT, Bean <[email protected]> wrote:

>With Verizon's recent requisitions, including Mountain Wireless in
>California, it seems like their strategy is to buy the small companies
>where they either need coverage or spectrum.

Requisitions????????????? What are they ordering?

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