Consumer Reports finally got it right.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:

> >Cingular didn't rate very well, but at least they beat Nextel. And
> >considering the turmoil in cingular at the moment, I gues that's not too
> >bad.
>
> What turmoil?

Remember the Cingular press release that said as of November 15 all
their AT&T Wireless stores had been converted into Cingular stores??
Hasn't happened yet. I was reminded of it driving by a strip center
watching a Kinko's being rebadged as Fed-Ex Kinkos, while The ATTWS
store still had the ATTWS sign up.

My guess: April 26, those ATTWS stores will be shut down.
(April 26 is when Cingular loses the right to use the ATTWS name; 6
months after the merger).


The press release in question is the one Navas claimed didn't exist, and
then of course never apologized when I produced it:

<http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/mi...8644&TICK=CING
UL1&STORY=/www/story/11-16-2004/0002458939&EDATE=Nov+16,+2004>


>
> NEXTEL is an SMR and they shouldn't be considered in a survey of Cellular and
> PCS companies.
>
> --
> John S.
> e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

---

› See More: Consumer Reports finally got it right.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 07 Jan 2005 13:07:56 GMT,
[email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:

>>Cingular didn't rate very well, but at least they beat Nextel. And
>>considering the turmoil in cingular at the moment, I gues that's not too
>>bad.
>
>What turmoil?
>
>NEXTEL is an SMR and they shouldn't be considered in a survey of Cellular and
>PCS companies.

Of course it should.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Jan
2005 13:37:15 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:
>
>> >Cingular didn't rate very well, but at least they beat Nextel. And
>> >considering the turmoil in cingular at the moment, I gues that's not too
>> >bad.
>>
>> What turmoil?
>
>Remember the Cingular press release that said as of November 15 all
>their AT&T Wireless stores had been converted into Cingular stores??

There was no such claim.

>The press release in question is the one Navas claimed didn't exist,

I said nothing of the kind.

>and
>then of course never apologized when I produced it:
>
><http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/mi...8644&TICK=CING
>UL1&STORY=/www/story/11-16-2004/0002458939&EDATE=Nov+16,+2004>

This fantasy of yours was previously debunked in:
<http://tinyurl.com/6dmau>
<http://tinyurl.com/6okdz>
<http://tinyurl.com/5voky>

(Still haven't learned how to post a URL without mangling it I see. I even
made http://tinyurl.com/46ll2 for you.)

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

"A little learning is a dangerous thing." [Alexander Pope]
"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." [Mark Twain]

>Of course it should.

NO, they chouldn't!

John we have been over this and I thought that we had agreed to disagree on
this.

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

"J Haggerty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:AVnDd.4683$2_4.3095@okepread06...
> Scott Stephenson wrote:
>
>
> > As expected, you missed the point. The CS survey has been marketed as
the
> > opinion of cellular users, not their subscribers. And due to the
> > demographics of their subscriber base, I simply pointed out that it is
not a
> > complete sample of all cellular users.
>
> Why do you say it's "been marketed as the opinion of cellular users, not
> their subscribers"?

The headlines are a little less clear:

" CONSUMER REPORTS' ANNUAL CELL PHONE SURVEY SHOWS NO MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT
IN SERVICE SINCE 2001 BENCHMARK STUDY"

"Cell users suffer service disconnect
Consumer Reports: Mobile phone customers aren't happy with their providers,
and it might get worse"

"AT&T, T-Mobile bested by Verizon in Consumer Reports ranking"

And based on the limited reading done by cellular users (as evidenced by the
number who claim not to read the contract in this very newsgroup), this is
about as deep into the articles as most would get.

> If you read the report, it says clearly "Our ratings can help. They are
> based on the experiences of more than 39,000 subscribers to Consumers
> Reports.org in 17 metro areas"
> That sure sounds to me that they are saying that it's their subscribers
> doing the reporting. Sure it's not a sample of all cellular users, but
> they identify who they surveyed, and can you show me any survey that did
> include all cellular users?

JD Powers limited sample is likely to contain a better cross-section than
CS. Hell, the Charlotte Business Journal did a national survey of 19,000
users that would have contained a better demographic comparison. Is two
enough?

> Remember the Cingular press release that said as of November 15 all
> their AT&T Wireless stores had been converted into Cingular stores??
> Hasn't happened yet. I was reminded of it driving by a strip center
> watching a Kinko's being rebadged as Fed-Ex Kinkos, while The ATTWS
> store still had the ATTWS sign up.


You CAN certify which ATTWS stores belong to the areas which Cingular is
divesting, right? There are areas in Texas that Cingular is REQUIRED by
law to divest, and cannot operate those areas under the rest of the
ATTWS umbrella because of DOJ requirements. You were previously
complaining that they won't help Cingular customers. Maybe they're not
allowed to. You say they still sell ATTWS plans...maybe because they're
not allowed to sell Cingular plans.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, Cingular technically owns all of ATTWS right
now, but is required to have another party operate them, ensuring that
Cingular tactics will not prevent competition.

"The 11 states covered in the consent decree are Connecticut, Georgia,
Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Missouri, Michigan,
Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas."

This article is readily available, so I see know need to post links to
support it.

Sorry, I thought you'd be over the store issue by now.

TH

> NEXTEL is an SMR and they shouldn't be considered in a survey of Cellular and
> PCS companies.

Okay, I'll give you that. Nextel does NOT currently provide
Cellular/PCS services. However, Nextel is a Wireless company, and
should be included if it's referring to Wireless, not just Cellular/PCS.

TH

Scott Stephenson wrote:
> "J Haggerty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:AVnDd.4683$2_4.3095@okepread06...
>>
>>Why do you say it's "been marketed as the opinion of cellular users, not
>>their subscribers"?
>
>
> The headlines are a little less clear:
>
> " CONSUMER REPORTS' ANNUAL CELL PHONE SURVEY SHOWS NO MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT
> IN SERVICE SINCE 2001 BENCHMARK STUDY"
>
> "Cell users suffer service disconnect
> Consumer Reports: Mobile phone customers aren't happy with their providers,
> and it might get worse"
>
> "AT&T, T-Mobile bested by Verizon in Consumer Reports ranking"
>

That may be true, but Consumers Reports did say where they got their
survey results, so you can't fault them for headlines that other people
decide to print.

>
>>If you read the report, it says clearly "Our ratings can help. They are
>>based on the experiences of more than 39,000 subscribers to Consumers
>>Reports.org in 17 metro areas"
>>That sure sounds to me that they are saying that it's their subscribers
>>doing the reporting. Sure it's not a sample of all cellular users, but
>>they identify who they surveyed, and can you show me any survey that did
>>include all cellular users?
>
>
> JD Powers limited sample is likely to contain a better cross-section than
> CS. Hell, the Charlotte Business Journal did a national survey of 19,000
> users that would have contained a better demographic comparison. Is two
> enough?

My point was that no survey is perfect, they all have flaws and the
percentage of error depends on who they ask, when they ask, what they
ask, and how they ask.
Interesting that the JD Powers latest survey ties in closely with the
Consumers Reports Survey, except that Verizon was rated slightly ahead
of T-Mobile by CR survey respondents. Cingular fell behind T-Mobile and
Verizon in just about every area.

"T-Mobile performs particularly well in the study, ranking highest in
all six regions (including four ties), largely by demonstrating a
competitive advantage in customer service, service plan options, cost of
service and billing. Verizon Wireless also ranks highest in a tie in
four regions: Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, North Central and West. Nextel is
the only other provider to rank highest, tying with Verizon and T-Mobile
in the North Central region."
Source:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/telecom/jd.../Find.jsp?s=11
(Click on 2004 press release)

John S. wrote:
> NEXTEL is an SMR and they shouldn't be considered in a survey of
Cellular and
> PCS companies.

The Consumers Reports article was titled "Ratings: Wireless carriers".
Aren't they a wireless carrier?

JPH

>The Consumers Reports article was titled "Ratings: Wireless carriers".
>Aren't they a wireless carrier?
>
>JPH

No, they a a Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) company providing 2-way radio
service. Their Walkie Talkies just take advantage of the Carterphone decision
allowing them to interconnect to the public sitched network so they can also
make calls.


--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

"John S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >The Consumers Reports article was titled "Ratings: Wireless carriers".
> >Aren't they a wireless carrier?
> >
> >JPH
>
> No, they a a Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) company providing 2-way radio
> service. Their Walkie Talkies just take advantage of the Carterphone
decision
> allowing them to interconnect to the public sitched network so they can
also
> make calls.
>
>
> --

And the last time I checked, no wires were necessary for operation.
Wouldn't that make them wireless?

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 10 Jan 2005 00:29:39 GMT,
[email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:

>>The Consumers Reports article was titled "Ratings: Wireless carriers".
>>Aren't they a wireless carrier?
>>
>>JPH
>
>No, they a a Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) company providing 2-way radio
>service.

Hmmm. Just like cellular. Just like PCS.

>Their Walkie Talkies just take advantage of the Carterphone decision
>allowing them to interconnect to the public sitched network so they can also
>make calls.

With all due respect, the Carterphone decision isn't applicable.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>