Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710

This is why I'm laughing. It made the news, papers and does leave a bitter
taste in the mouth. Maybe a lot of people will start to not trust them now
because of all this press.

"Joe Kaffe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HHVFd.650$hu.165@fed1read01...
>
> "Quaoar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> ---snip---snip---snip---
> > This, of course, is going nowhere at high speed
> ---snip---snip---snip---
>
> Probable true, but think of the bad press and the impression it leaves in
> the mind of shoppers.
>
>

---

› See More: Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710

How do you think the data is being sent to the headset? Telepathy?

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan 2005
> 11:01:46 -0500, SinghaLvr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I would have otherwise assumed that I could do file transfers between
phone &
> >computer. It's been a natural part of bluetooth since ... well, since I
knew
> >about bluetooth anyway. ...
>
> Really? Bluetooth headsets can do data transfer?
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan
2005 20:45:45 GMT, Jack "FUDMEISTER" Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>Then why does Verizon say the following on their website:
>
>"Bluetooth is a low bandwidth, wireless networking technology designed
>primarily to replace cables for communication between personal computing
>and communication devices. It is intended to be used for both voice and
>data communications. "

Because it's true. But that proves nothing. What matters is what is promised
for the phone.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

"A little learning is a dangerous thing." [Alexander Pope]
"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." [Mark Twain]

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan
2005 20:43:59 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I disagree. Bluetooth support varies from device to device. If you want a
>> specific function, then you have an obligation to see if that function is
>> supported. It's not the responsibility of the seller to anticipate your
>> expectations. Windows XP SP2 doesn't support the Bluetooth headset profile.
>> Is Microsoft liable? Your standard is unrealistic and unworkable.
>
>You are ignoring what Verizon has posted on their website re: Bluetooth.
>
>"V710: Connectivity via Bluetooth"

Can you not connect a headset to the V710 by Bluetooth (i.e., K6: Headset
Profile)?

There are actually 13 different Profiles in Bluetooth 1.1 -- which ones are
you demanding that Verizon support for the V710 (and by extension every other
Bluetooth phone for every other carrier), and on what basis? Do you even know
what a Profile is? ;-)

I have no idea what Verizon has in mind, but I suspect it has more to do with
the very real risks of "bluesnarfing" and "bluejacking" than with curtailing
user choice. Regardless, if you don't like the limitations, then buy
something else! No one is being forced to buy the V710.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:56:38 -0800, Steve
Sobol <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>>>The fact that Bluetooth-equipped headsets don't is a red herring.
>>
>> I disagree. Bluetooth support varies from device to device. If you want a
>> specific function, then you have an obligation to see if that function is
>> supported. It's not the responsibility of the seller to anticipate your
>> expectations. Windows XP SP2 doesn't support the Bluetooth headset profile.
>> Is Microsoft liable? Your standard is unrealistic and unworkable.
>
>I have to say, it's much more often that I agree with you and disagree with
>"Jack Zwick" than the other way around, but this time I agree with him.
>
>Microsoft isn't advertising a specific use of BT. It would seem that Verizon
>is, and is not providing that particular functionality in their phones.
>
>It's *really* that simple.

I don't think so, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Customization of
phones by carriers is a well-established practice, and if you don't like the
customization, don't buy the phone -- it's *really* that simple, and is how
the market works.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

It's being sent by K6: Headset Profile. Bluetooth 1.1 has 13 different
Profiles, and most devices only support a small subset of those Profiles.

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:50:52 -0500,
<[email protected]> wrote:

>How do you think the data is being sent to the headset? Telepathy?
>
>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan 2005
>> 11:01:46 -0500, SinghaLvr <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I would have otherwise assumed that I could do file transfers between
>phone &
>> >computer. It's been a natural part of bluetooth since ... well, since I
>knew
>> >about bluetooth anyway. ...
>>
>> Really? Bluetooth headsets can do data transfer?

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:32:36
-0500, Jim <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:13:48 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>
>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:02:57 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If Bluetooth works (and it does) then it's not disabled (and it isn't).
>>>> Unless Verizon Wireless specifically promises features that aren't delivered,
>>>> then there is NO CASE.
>>>
>>>Not necessarily ... Failure to disclose product limitations *may* fall
>>>under an "Implied Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose." ... I'd
>>>say it's up to a judge to decide if there is a case. ...
>>
>> Since most Bluetooth devices don't support all profiles and features, there
>> can't be implied functionality, and thus there is NO CASE.
>
>The phone marketing descriptions do imply functionality ...

Perhaps I missed that, so please cite the exact language in the phone
marketing description (with citation) that you think implies data transfer
functionality.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jan
2005 01:52:39 GMT, "N9WOS" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Verizon is a lot more secretive than Microsoft.

Say what?! LOL

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jan
2005 01:59:45 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> "N9WOS" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As I stated, that is easy with PC's, but it's a bit harder with cell phones,
>> Verizon is a lot more secretive than Microsoft.
>> But it is probably what you will need to do.
>> Or you can sue company that sold it to you, and force them to change it.
>> Which appears to be what the other people are doing.
>
>Or Verizon should clearly state what is and isnt capable with its
>Bluetooth implementation.

It only needs to state what is capable. AFAIK, it has done that. No?
It doesn't need to say a long list of things like, "won't scramble eggs."

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:56:27 GMT,
Justin <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote on [Sat, 15 Jan 2005 05:26:18 GMT]:
>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>Can you at least get this useless piece of crap line to say where it's
>actually posted to?

It does.

>It's in 2 newsgroups besides the cingular one.

Those are cross-posts.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jan 2005
02:18:17 -0500, SinghaLvr <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:26:18 -0500, John Navas wrote
>(in article <[email protected]>):
>
>>> Verizon is a lot more secretive than Microsoft.
>>
>> Say what?! LOL
>
>We know what Microsoft is planning on releasing in 2007.

We do?! LOL We know what Microsoft says its planning on releasing in 2007,
but we know from experience that almost certainly won't happen.

>We don't know what Verizon is planning on releasing in 9 months.

Really? Read SEC filings and analyst briefings. I think it's at least as
informative as Microsoft.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14
> Jan 2005 20:45:45 GMT, Jack "FUDMEISTER" Zwick
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Then why does Verizon say the following on their website:
>>
>>"Bluetooth is a low bandwidth, wireless networking technology designed
>>primarily to replace cables for communication between personal
>>computing and communication devices. It is intended to be used for
>>both voice and data communications. "
>
> Because it's true. But that proves nothing. What matters is what is
> promised for the phone.
>

Then how about this little ditty:

"And with Bluetooth® wireless technology, you can make hands-free, eyes-
free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you
want."

That comes straight out of the description for the V710 on Verizon's own
website...http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?
item=equipmentUpgrade&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=1570

Now, if that came off of Motorola's website for the phone, I'd have to
agree with you (John). Or if Verizon included a disclaimer somewhere on
that page that said words to the effect of "but we don't necessarily
enable this", or said something like "connect to the internet through
your PC", I'd also agree with you. But that paragraph appears on
Verizon's own website attached to that particular phone model's
description. Its not a comment about Bluetooth in general or Bluetooth
enabled phones in general. I don't know anyone who is phone savy or
computer savy who would read that paragraph and *not* believe that they
could transfer data between a V710 phone purchased from Verizon and a PC
or PDA, or think that the paragraph only applied to wireless headsets.

David

David M. Moore wrote:
> Then how about this little ditty:
>
> "And with Bluetooth® wireless technology, you can make hands-free,
> eyes- free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever
> you want."
>
> That comes straight out of the description for the V710 on Verizon's
> own website...http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?
> item=equipmentUpgrade&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=1570
>
> Now, if that came off of Motorola's website for the phone, I'd have to
> agree with you (John). Or if Verizon included a disclaimer somewhere
> on that page that said words to the effect of "but we don't
> necessarily enable this", or said something like "connect to the
> internet through your PC", I'd also agree with you. But that
> paragraph appears on Verizon's own website attached to that
> particular phone model's description. Its not a comment about
> Bluetooth in general or Bluetooth enabled phones in general. I don't
> know anyone who is phone savy or computer savy who would read that
> paragraph and *not* believe that they could transfer data between a
> V710 phone purchased from Verizon and a PC or PDA, or think that the
> paragraph only applied to wireless headsets.
>
> David

Well, it's a good thing you don't know me then, since I sell phones and
repair computers.... Cause if you learn how to read the actual words that
are written, rather than imagine what you want them to say, it specifically
only says "connect to your PC or PDA"..... it says absolutely nothing about
being able to transfer data... just connect (and it doesn't say what you can
connect to).. Guess I'm what you'd call the meaning of the words savvy....

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Jan 2005
08:36:06 GMT, "David M. Moore" <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 14
>> Jan 2005 20:45:45 GMT, Jack "FUDMEISTER" Zwick
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Then why does Verizon say the following on their website:
>>>
>>>"Bluetooth is a low bandwidth, wireless networking technology designed
>>>primarily to replace cables for communication between personal
>>>computing and communication devices. It is intended to be used for
>>>both voice and data communications. "
>>
>> Because it's true. But that proves nothing. What matters is what is
>> promised for the phone.
>
>Then how about this little ditty:
>
>"And with Bluetooth® wireless technology, you can make hands-free, eyes-
>free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you
>want."

For what?

>That comes straight out of the description for the V710 on Verizon's own
>website...http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?
>item=equipmentUpgrade&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=1570

All I get at that URL is:

Upgrading our website

We are improving our web site to serve you better

We're currently upgrading our website and apologize for the inconvenience.
Please visit us again soon.

>Now, if that came off of Motorola's website for the phone, I'd have to
>agree with you (John). Or if Verizon included a disclaimer somewhere on
>that page that said words to the effect of "but we don't necessarily
>enable this", or said something like "connect to the internet through
>your PC", I'd also agree with you. But that paragraph appears on
>Verizon's own website attached to that particular phone model's
>description. Its not a comment about Bluetooth in general or Bluetooth
>enabled phones in general. I don't know anyone who is phone savy or
>computer savy who would read that paragraph and *not* believe that they
>could transfer data between a V710 phone purchased from Verizon and a PC
>or PDA, or think that the paragraph only applied to wireless headsets.

It could simply mean (say) a modem connection.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:53:20 -0800, "Peter Pan"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, it's a good thing you don't know me then, since I sell phones and
>repair computers.... Cause if you learn how to read the actual words that
>are written, rather than imagine what you want them to say, it specifically
>only says "connect to your PC or PDA"..... it says absolutely nothing about
>being able to transfer data... just connect (and it doesn't say what you can
>connect to).. Guess I'm what you'd call the meaning of the words savvy....
>

Let me get this straight, as I missed the opening message in this
thread.

Someone's SUING VZW over its Bluetooth implementation in the v710?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the most hilarious
thing I've ever heard! SUING?!?

As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.