Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710

You know, you also work for a large company.... Comcast.
Is all large companies dooms just by their size?

Me thinks I smell a load of fragrant crap.


<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> It will happen. One day Verizon will be cower to the competition and have to
> start dumping it's employee's first (there's no loyalty to them anyway) and
> then start practically giving away their service. History tells us people,
> big brother Verizon will eventually fall and have to speak to the masses.
> I'm am longing for that day, which will happen maybe in 2005 I'm told.
>
> Anyway, Cingular is a large corporate mogul also...but they services and
> products are much better and they don't cripple any of their hardware at
> all. Swap a SIM card and you're up and working. Not to mention the many
> times I've indicated Cingular's (GSM) available phone list.
>
> Hey, will GSM outlast TDMA? Or vice-versa?
>
> "Scott en Aztlán" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:34:41 -0700, "Quaoar" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Jack Zwick wrote:
>> >> One can not transfer files (such as pictures taken) with the bluetooth
>> >> as configured in the Verizon model of the Motorola v710..
>> >> Upset users are suing:
>> >>
>> >>
> <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20050113
>> >> /tc_nm/telecoms_verizonwireless_lawsuit_dc&sid=95573419>
>> >
>> >This, of course, is going nowhere at high speed.
>>
>> People need to wake the eff up and start voting with their DOLLARS.
>> VZW is a gigantic, arrogant company, an won't change until it loses
>> enough customers to competitors like Cingular who have a clue re:
>> Bluetooth and other features that customers want.
>>
>> --
>> Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy (except to buy loss leaders for
> resale on eBay).
>> (See http://tinyurl.com/6efhd)
>
>

---

› See More: Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710

John Navas wrote:

> I don't think so, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Customization of
> phones by carriers is a well-established practice, and if you don't like the
> customization, don't buy the phone -- it's *really* that simple, and is how
> the market works.

I agree with this statement. The question is what the customer expectation was,
and whether they could reasonably have assumed they'd get the functionality
they're upset about not having. I guess we *will* have to disagree about that



--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)

Mike wrote:

> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.

Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
>> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>
> Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!

Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
modem...

Peter Pan wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>>Mike wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>>>implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>>>PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>>
>>Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>
>
> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
> usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
> modem...

Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
your thumb up your ass?

(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>>>> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>>>> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>>>
>>> Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't
>> you on usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my
>> cell as a modem...
>
> Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem
> and read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything
> besides sit with your thumb up your ass?
>
> (Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)

Fraid I don't understand... If I'm using outlook on my PDA, and files that
are attached are saved on the PDA, what's the phone got to do with it?
If I send mail, it is saved on the device I write the mail on (the PDA....
*NOT* the cellphone)

Come to think of it, I can't think of a single thing that I do on the pda
when online has anything whatsoever to do with the phone.

And actually Steve, that's sort of funny, remember the Kyocera 2325 I got
from you? *That's* the cell phone I am using...

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:10:01 -0800, Steve Sobol <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>>Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>>
>>
>> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
>> usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
>> modem...
>
>Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
>read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
>your thumb up your ass?
>
>(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)

I guess...and I don't get it.

Mike

Peter Pan wrote:

> Fraid I don't understand... If I'm using outlook on my PDA, and files that
> are attached are saved on the PDA, what's the phone got to do with it?
> If I send mail, it is saved on the device I write the mail on (the PDA....
> *NOT* the cellphone)

My point was, when you use the phone as a modem, its sole purpose is to
transfer data.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)

Mike wrote:

>>Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
>>read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
>>your thumb up your ass?
>>
>>(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)

> I guess...and I don't get it.

The whole argument is about the data transfer capabilities of BT - the whole
point of using a phone as a modem is to transfer data. The whole point of using
a phone for any other reason, when hooked up to a PC or PDA, is also to
transfer data.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)

Since most people are cheap in this world...that's why Wal-Mart is such a
success. I'm not saying their products are bad, but they are usually less
expensive then other stores. Hey, I'll drop by a Wal-Mart and pick up some
items if I'm near one. Knowing when you're shopping around in that store,
you are probably getting the best price around is nice I guess.


"SinghaLvr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:34:19 -0500, [email protected] wrote
> (in article <[email protected]>):
>
> > Anyway, Cingular is a large corporate mogul also...but they services and
> > products are much better and they don't cripple any of their hardware at
> > all. Swap a SIM card and you're up and working. Not to mention the many
> > times I've indicated Cingular's (GSM) available phone list.
>
> as you correctly point out .... there's really nothing wrong with being a
> "big gigantic" company. It's when that same company is arrogant that
things
> go bad. (Wal-Mart is a terrific example of this .... )
>
>

What marketers don't say can be deemed as misleading as what they do say.
The V710 was advertised as Bluetooth with no disclaimers concerning its
severe limitations. The features crippled are significant. Not just file
transfer but even basic synching of contacts or a calendar is disabled. A
judge and/or the court of public opinion will decide the issue.

Thinking stuff up again....? I never said Verizon will fall because of it's
size or did mention anything to that affect at all. It's not their size
that's gonna kill them, it's the top corporate greed that will. Also, in
Comcast's entire history there have never been huge layoffs like most other
large corporate companies. Never. Every so often I hear some company laying
off thousand's at a time. Comcast, having as many employee's as those other
companies haven't had layoffs like that ever.

"Richard Ness" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You know, you also work for a large company.... Comcast.
> Is all large companies dooms just by their size?
>
> Me thinks I smell a load of fragrant crap.
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > It will happen. One day Verizon will be cower to the competition and
have to
> > start dumping it's employee's first (there's no loyalty to them anyway)
and
> > then start practically giving away their service. History tells us
people,
> > big brother Verizon will eventually fall and have to speak to the
masses.
> > I'm am longing for that day, which will happen maybe in 2005 I'm told.
> >
> > Anyway, Cingular is a large corporate mogul also...but they services and
> > products are much better and they don't cripple any of their hardware at
> > all. Swap a SIM card and you're up and working. Not to mention the many
> > times I've indicated Cingular's (GSM) available phone list.
> >
> > Hey, will GSM outlast TDMA? Or vice-versa?
> >
> > "Scott en Aztlán" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:34:41 -0700, "Quaoar" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jack Zwick wrote:
> >> >> One can not transfer files (such as pictures taken) with the
bluetooth
> >> >> as configured in the Verizon model of the Motorola v710..
> >> >> Upset users are suing:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >
<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...u=/nm/20050113
> >> >> /tc_nm/telecoms_verizonwireless_lawsuit_dc&sid=95573419>
> >> >
> >> >This, of course, is going nowhere at high speed.
> >>
> >> People need to wake the eff up and start voting with their DOLLARS.
> >> VZW is a gigantic, arrogant company, an won't change until it loses
> >> enough customers to competitors like Cingular who have a clue re:
> >> Bluetooth and other features that customers want.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy (except to buy loss leaders
for
> > resale on eBay).
> >> (See http://tinyurl.com/6efhd)
> >
> >
>
>

You've been lucky. In the past year or so more and more people complain
about noisy/static calls, dropped calls and not as good signal. I have
family members scattered through-out NJ and all of them have had the same
experiences with Verizon. Like I said...it's only a matter of time.....

"David M. Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott en Aztlán <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > People need to wake the eff up and start voting with their DOLLARS.
> > VZW is a gigantic, arrogant company, an won't change until it loses
> > enough customers to competitors like Cingular who have a clue re:
> > Bluetooth and other features that customers want.
> >
>
> Okay, that's true. I would normally agree with you there.
>
> But there's one problem here. While I don't like the fact that Verizon
> criples their Bluetooth phone, the simple fact is that where I live
> everyone other than Verizon (Cingular, Sprint, Nextel) has performance
that
> sucks. In my county, I can count on my fingers the areas where Verizon
> drops out...there are only two, and they are very small areas. With other
> local carriers I have to count the other way...I can count the areas where
> they might work. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether
> Bluetooth works on a phone or not if I can't make a call when I need to.
> Likewise, it doesn't matter how much the competition kisses my rear and
> talks nice to me if their phones won't work reliably for me. Verizon's
> attitudes may suck like a big dog, but around here their system's
> performance is top-notch, and is, in my experience, magnitudes better than
> their competition. And for that reason alone I will stick with them when
> my contract expires in March, even though I can't get a "real" Bluetooth
> phone from them. When the others can give me that same degree of
> performance, then I'll consider switching.
>
>
> David

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:33:26 -0500, Jim <[email protected]> wrote:

>What marketers don't say can be deemed as misleading as what they do say.
>The V710 was advertised as Bluetooth with no disclaimers concerning its
>severe limitations. The features crippled are significant. Not just file
>transfer but even basic synching of contacts or a calendar is disabled. A
>judge and/or the court of public opinion will decide the issue.

The features crippled were not significant to me...I don't need them.

The two things the v710 does do over Bluetooth, use of a wireless
handset or speaker, and access to the Internet, I DO use and do work
fine. I never had any intent on transferring files, ringtones, or
even contacts or calendars to my 710.

The key issue here, in any "lawsuit", is if VZW runs into any problems
with the Bluetooth people by advertising "Bluetooth" with a subset of
the entire feature set. If the people who own the trademark don't
care, why should anyone else? If they don't care, it's YOUR fault for
not finding out the facts, which were readily available before the
phone was even released.

And anyone who has Internet access, and is posting here, who's upset
about this...has no leg to stand on. The ONLY people who have that
leg are the folks who were misled by sales representatives that the
phone was able to do those things. And even then, it's not all that
difficult to find out otherwise.

I repeat - do all things which support Bluetooth have to have all
possible services? Is the licensing set up that way?

Mike

> But there's one problem here. While I don't like the fact that Verizon
> criples their Bluetooth phone, the simple fact is that where I live
> everyone other than Verizon (Cingular, Sprint, Nextel) has performance that
> sucks. In my county, I can count on my fingers the areas where Verizon
> drops out...there are only two, and they are very small areas. With other
> local carriers I have to count the other way...I can count the areas where
> they might work. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether
> Bluetooth works on a phone or not if I can't make a call when I need to.
> Likewise, it doesn't matter how much the competition kisses my rear and
> talks nice to me if their phones won't work reliably for me. Verizon's
> attitudes may suck like a big dog, but around here their system's
> performance is top-notch, and is, in my experience, magnitudes better than
> their competition. And for that reason alone I will stick with them when
> my contract expires in March, even though I can't get a "real" Bluetooth
> phone from them. When the others can give me that same degree of
> performance, then I'll consider switching.

Some areas are just the opposite. I have Cingular, and can count places
I frequent I know where Verizon has service and Cingular doesn't.
Moreover, I can name 25 places off the top of my head where Cingular has
service that Verizon doesn't.

Given that Verizon's network is more mature than Cingular's, I would
expect Cingular's network to get better (and now that they have much
more spectrum to work with....). However, I have heard of certain areas
in the U.S. where Verizon users get great signal everywhere, but cannot
make a phone call due to network traffic (fast busy signal).

Where you live, I hope the competition gets better soon.

TH