Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at
extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon was a great plan. It
included a lot of off-network roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where
Verizon did not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming
agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra cost.

Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from its inception. They
began by abandoning roaming agreements, so that there was a lot less
included roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was disclosed
by people who were analyzing their PRLs (preferred roaming lists), they
forced these people to take this information off the web.

Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers will have no
roaming at all, even at an extra charge. This means that you can only use
the phone in areas where Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If
you're out of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight except
for 911 access.

Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your phone will stop
working completely on the outskirts of Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular
is the carrier, and you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the
California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No coverage. The list
goes on and on.

To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer offers the National
Single Rate plan. According to their sales people, they have NO plans that
offer off-network roaming (though their web site states that their Digital
Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan, allow roaming at
69¢ per minute).

Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It states, for America's
Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No roaming charges) (Coverage not available in
all areas)," without stating that what they really mean is that you cannot
actually roam onto any other carrier's network.

Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able to roam off
Verizon, though there will be less and less included roaming, as Verizon
abandons roaming agreements.

---

› See More: Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.

So what's your point?

Was this a public service for those who can't read?

-Quick

Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more
> roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate
> Plan.
>
> The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon
> was a great plan. It included a lot of off-network
> roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where Verizon did
> not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming
> agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra
> cost.
>
> Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from
> its inception. They began by abandoning roaming
> agreements, so that there was a lot less included
> roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was
> disclosed by people who were analyzing their PRLs
> (preferred roaming lists), they forced these people to
> take this information off the web.
>
> Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers
> will have no roaming at all, even at an extra charge.
> This means that you can only use the phone in areas where
> Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If you're out
> of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight
> except for 911 access.
>
> Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your
> phone will stop working completely on the outskirts of
> Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular is the carrier, and
> you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the
> California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No
> coverage. The list goes on and on.
>
> To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer
> offers the National Single Rate plan. According to their
> sales people, they have NO plans that offer off-network
> roaming (though their web site states that their Digital
> Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan,
> allow roaming at 69¢ per minute).
>
> Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It
> states, for America's Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No
> roaming charges) (Coverage not available in all areas),"
> without stating that what they really mean is that you
> cannot actually roam onto any other carrier's network.
>
> Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able
> to roam off Verizon, though there will be less and less
> included roaming, as Verizon abandons roaming agreements.

"Quick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
> So what's your point?
>
> Was this a public service for those who can't read?
>
> -Quick

If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the cellular newsgroups in
the galaxy, and a few other newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly,
and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon
newsgroup.

Bob

"clifto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at Cingular
> and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
> they consider such a move.

This is true. Personally, I could not believe that Verizon would do such a
thing. I called customer service to confirm that the 'no paid roaming'
reduction was not being imposed on existing customers. Then I called back
again to sales, asking if America's Choice had off-network roaming
available, and was told that it did not. So I asked about National Single
Rate, and was told that it was no longer available. Where the CSR may have
been wrong is that at least on Verizon's web site, both Digital Choice and
InPulse, show roaming available for 69¢/minute. However for Digital Choice,
it may mean roaming on Verizon only, while on InPulse off-network roaming is
available (at least according to the web site. I called back a third time,
just to ask why they made this change, and got the answer I expected. It was
because they had too many complaints of people getting hit with roaming
charges, when they though they were not roaming (as AC coverage has been
reduced, more areas have become roaming, but since most people never update
their PRL, they thought they were still on the Extended Network).

I learned a long time ago to always call Verizon multiple times in order to
have a better chance of getting a correct answer, and this time I got the
same answer all three times.

Last month I was up in Northern California, and I had both my phone and my
wife's phone (same model). She never updates her PRL, and it showed
"Extended Network" in Eureka. I have an up-to-date PRL and my phone showed
that I was roaming off the Extended Network. We both were roaming in areas
where there was no digital service, only AMPS, just south of Crescent City.

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> clifto wrote:
> > Quick wrote:
> >
> >>Bob Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>>If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the
> >>>cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other
> >>>newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm
> >>>sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the
> >>>Verizon newsgroup.
> >>
> >>Holy cow! No, I didn't notice. Why? Why would 99%
> >>of those off this group care?
> >
> >
> > I saw at least one person in the Cingular newsgroup who's mad at
Cingular
> > and ready to switch to Verizon. It's good for others to know this before
> > they consider such a move.
> >
>
> Except the information provided was mostly false.

I called Verizon three times, just to be certain that the information was
correct. It is all true. There is no more roaming off-network on America's
Choice (AC). I think your confusion is that when the rest of us refer to AC
we mean all of AC, including the Extended Network, but you think that we are
referring only to native Verizon coverage.

The bottom line is that if you are in one of the many areas where there is
no AC coverage, either on Verizon or on the Extended Network, then your
phone will no longer work, even if you are perfectly willing to pay 69¢ per
minute to roam.

The reason for this change was explained to me as well. They were getting
too many complaints about roaming charges from customers that thought that
they were on the Extended Network, when they really were not. As the
Extended Network has shrunk, customer that fail to update their PRL are
seeing incorrect indicators on their phone regarding roaming.

The reason that National Single Rate was dropped was because Verizon was
incurring too much expense from having to pay for all the roaming charges,
since the only people buying it were those who were doing a lot of
off-network roaming. Existing NSR customers can keep their plan, but new
customers cannot sign up for it.

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Digital Choice and
> InPulse, show roaming available for 69¢/minute.

One of the best reasons I ditched them to Alltel was I keep my 800
mins/month ($39 and $8 tax/addons) that only covers SC/NC and a slice of
surrounding states. A Florida trip on VZW's LDC cost me $267 last time the
sailboat was in FL.

On Alltel, you simply call 611 and "buy" 100 minutes of nationwide service
for $10. $10! It works anywhere the phone has a PRL-allowed signal across
the country. When you get down to your last 10 minutes, you get a text
message telling you so and asking you if you want 100 minutes more for
another $10. Reply if you want more....rather than go roaming at National
Debt rates like VZW charges.....

I only buy nationwide service when I NEED nationwide service....and get
lots of local minutes in the 2 states at home....

Since the beginning of April, Alltel has allowed you to change your
calling plan without any contract extension. For instance, you could
change to Total Freedom before going on a driving vacation out west
then change back to Greater Freedom when you return. I think the
changes have to be for the entire billing month to keep the prorating
of the bill from causing problems. Here's a thread that expains it in
more detail:

http://www.alltelusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628

royc

"royc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since the beginning of April, Alltel has allowed you to change your
> calling plan without any contract extension. For instance, you could
> change to Total Freedom before going on a driving vacation out west
> then change back to Greater Freedom when you return. I think the
> changes have to be for the entire billing month to keep the prorating
> of the bill from causing problems. Here's a thread that expains it in
> more detail:
>
> http://www.alltelusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628

Cool idea.

If I change my Verizon plan now, i.e. go to a family plan which I was
considering, I will lose my 8:01 p.m. off-peak start time, and lose the
ability to roam off of their network or extended network.

GSM coverage is terrible in my area, so Cingular isn't an option, and Sprint
would cost me a lot more money.

If you have an old plan with Alltel and you leave it for another plan,
you cannot go back to the old plan. I think all carriers have that
policy. You can switch to any currently offered plan without extending
your contract obligation. You can do this every month if you like and
you can do it after your contract expires without any obligation to
sign a new contract.

At Alltel, contracts are now really only used to recover the subsidised
cost of the phone. If you furnish your own handset (must be Alltel and
E911 compliant) or pay full retail price for it, you're not required to
have a contract, as I understand it.

royc

In article <[email protected]>,
"Bob Smith" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> "Quick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
>> So what's your point?
>>
>> Was this a public service for those who can't read?
>>
[snip]
> It was news to yours truly,
> and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon
> newsgroup.

It was timely, for me, being as I'm on the verge of choosing a new
plan and phones. I'll *probably* stick with SPCS, but VZ would
probably be my 2nd choice. Or would have been.

I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?

--
Jim Seymour | "There is no expedient to which a man will not
[email protected] | go to avoid the labor of thinking."
http://jimsun.LinxNet.com | - Thomas A. Edison

Ah, be real careful of doing this. Cellular carriers have a long history
of telling you your old plan is no longer available as soon as you try to
change it back, switching you, instead, to the NEW total freedom (or
whatever your carrier calls it) plan with, as you expect, LESS
minutes/features/freebies than that good ol' PROMOTIONAL plan you had
before the trip.

No matter what carrier, I'm always suspicious when they want me to change
plans, "temporarily", and they smile at me while they're typing into the
terminal....



"royc" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Since the beginning of April, Alltel has allowed you to change your
> calling plan without any contract extension. For instance, you could
> change to Total Freedom before going on a driving vacation out west
> then change back to Greater Freedom when you return. I think the
> changes have to be for the entire billing month to keep the prorating
> of the bill from causing problems. Here's a thread that expains it in
> more detail:
>
> http://www.alltelusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628
>
> royc
>
>
>

"royc" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> At Alltel, contracts are now really only used to recover the subsidised
> cost of the phone. If you furnish your own handset (must be Alltel and
> E911 compliant) or pay full retail price for it, you're not required to
> have a contract, as I understand it.
>
> royc
>

Put furnishing your own Ebay phone on Alltel out of your head. Alltel will
ONLY activate a phone IT SOLD on its network, now. I have a nearly new VZW
LG with GPS, color screen and all the toys. Alltel wants nothing to do
with it, even though I walked over to their reprogrammer and SHOWED them
they have the snake plug that fits it and the phone's not locked.

Alltel no longer activates any phone....

Jim Seymour wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > "Quick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:1116954161.859746@sj-nntpcache-5...
> >> So what's your point?
> >>
> >> Was this a public service for those who can't read?
> >>
> [snip]
> > It was news to yours truly,
> > and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon
> > newsgroup.
>
> It was timely, for me, being as I'm on the verge of choosing a new
> plan and phones. I'll *probably* stick with SPCS, but VZ would
> probably be my 2nd choice. Or would have been.
>
> I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?
[snip]

The accuracy of this post is in question, and I might consider
looking
at the plans in detail yourself, especially if there is a specific
region of interest. I switched from "more bars" ATT/Cingular to
Verizon and have had no problems in my areas of travel.

"Jim Seymour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?

According to the Verizon CSR, they were having a problem with complaints
about roaming charges. This stemmed from two issues.

First, many people do not understand what the roaming indicators on their
phone means. The little flashing or non-flashing triangle, or the solid or
flashing :"Extended Network" message (complicating this is the fact that the
flashing versus non-flashing is counter-intuitive, flashing should be used
when you are being charged roaming, and solid should be used when you are on
the Extended Network, but it's the opposite way around).

Second, many people never update their PRL. As Verizon has reduced its
extended network coverage, the phone will still indicate that you are not
roaming, if you have an old PRL that included the area you're in as part of
the extended network.

So the solution to eliminating complaints about roaming charges is obviously
to eliminate all roaming. Not having your phone work at all is obviously
better than paying for roaming!

The non-roaming AC does have a larger extended network than the old roaming
AC, but there are still areas where the choice is roaming or no service.

The solution is to carry a second phone from a prepaid provider, that allows
roaming, when traveling. An old TDMA/AMPS phone on Beyond Wireless
(http://gobeyondwireless.com) will work, and has no minimums, and no
expiration (other than making one call every 60 days).

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jim Seymour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?
>
> According to the Verizon CSR, they were having a problem with complaints
> about roaming charges. This stemmed from two issues.
>
> First, many people do not understand what the roaming indicators on their
> phone means. The little flashing or non-flashing triangle, or the solid or
> flashing :"Extended Network" message (complicating this is the fact that
> the
> flashing versus non-flashing is counter-intuitive, flashing should be used
> when you are being charged roaming, and solid should be used when you are
> on
> the Extended Network, but it's the opposite way around).
>
> Second, many people never update their PRL. As Verizon has reduced its
> extended network coverage, the phone will still indicate that you are not
> roaming, if you have an old PRL that included the area you're in as part
> of
> the extended network.
>
> So the solution to eliminating complaints about roaming charges is
> obviously
> to eliminate all roaming. Not having your phone work at all is obviously
> better than paying for roaming!
>

Did Verizon ever fix their delayed (HOME NETWORK) billing problems? That's
why I dumped them for Cingular. I got tired of being over-billed *months
later* for calls that I made, when I never left my home area. The way it
would work is (roughly) . . .

Month 1, make many calls on the Verizon network in my home calling area
(get 'billed' for some of them on my month 1 bill . . . but nowhere near my
included minutes, so no overage charges)

Month 2 and 3, basically same as Month 1

Month 4, make many more calls on the Verizon network in my home area
(then get billed OVERAGE CHARGES from a bunch of Month 1 calls that were
billed as month 4, but would have been nowhere near my included anytime
minutes total if they'd have been billed as Month 1)

I called verizon several times on this issue. They claimed it was their
mistake, and that they wouldn't fix it. So I fixed it for them. I'm a
Cingular customer now. -Dave