Move to keep Analog Cell Phones

"Bob Scheurle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I believe the maximum range for CDMA is about 35 miles.

Any reason why? I can't think of one.

--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net

---

› See More: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:59:00 GMT, Quick wrote:

> I'm not sure, but doesn't CDMA deal really well with multipath?

Much better than TDMA or GSM, since CDMA can use data packets from more than
one tower during a conversation. If one tower fades another one fills in.

TDMA/GSM use only one tower at a time, handing off when needed.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:34:40 GMT, Bob Scheurle wrote:

> I believe the maximum range for CDMA is about 35 miles.

CDMA's range is limited only by the signal strength between the phone and
the closest tower. Some users have reported ranges over 50 miles.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:54:09 -0500, "Donald
Newcomb" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"danny burstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In <[email protected]> "Donald Newcomb"
><[email protected]> writes:
>> Mostly, but not completely correct... While a better antenna [a] and
>> a bit mor epower are the key issues, there's also a physical
>> distance limit due to timing slot concerns.
>>
>> I don't recall the exact numbers, but 20 km as a maximum range
>> comes to mind.
>
>35 km for regular vanilla GSM. Extended range is available (at a cost). No
>limit I know of for CDMA or TDMA.

Range is roughly comparable for all three flavors.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:23:19
GMT, CellGuy <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:59:00 GMT, Quick wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure, but doesn't CDMA deal really well with multipath?
>
>Much better than TDMA or GSM, since CDMA can use data packets from more than
>one tower during a conversation. If one tower fades another one fills in.

It doesn't really work that way, and is still subject to the same kinds of
signal issues as TDMA (including the GSM variation of TDMA).

>TDMA/GSM use only one tower at a time, handing off when needed.

True, which has pros and cons, just as CDMA has pros and cons.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:56:15 -0400,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Quick" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Timing. Propagation delay over that distance gets too large.
>
>The other problem, on land, is the multipath delays, ...

Nonsense.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:54:02
-0500, DevilsPGD <[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]> "Donald Newcomb"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"danny burstein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> In <[email protected]> "Donald Newcomb"
>><[email protected]> writes:
>>> Mostly, but not completely correct... While a better antenna [a] and
>>> a bit mor epower are the key issues, there's also a physical
>>> distance limit due to timing slot concerns.
>>>
>>> I don't recall the exact numbers, but 20 km as a maximum range
>>> comes to mind.
>>
>>35 km for regular vanilla GSM. Extended range is available (at a cost). No
>>limit I know of for CDMA or TDMA.
>
>The ~35KM limit applies to all TDMA-based technologies, including what
>is commonly known as "TDMA" in Canada and the US, as well as GSM and
>iDEN.

The 35 km limit is based on the timing of GSM, which is one of the things that
make it more efficient than other TDMA-based technologies, like IS-136 and
iDEN, which do not have a maximum range based on timing. With maximum 3 watt
power output (and suitable terrain), iDEN can work over a distance of 50 miles
(80 km).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:50:31 -0400,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

>I sail on a French-made Amel Sharki 41' ketch along the southeast coast of
>USA. I have a Decibel Products 800 Mhz, 11 element yagi that's end-
>mounted, made for 800 Mhz paging relay service from a paging friend. It's
>very broadbanded at this band. SWR is 1.15:1 across cellular after a
>little tuning of the gamma match on it.
>
>When I had Verizon's AMPS online, hooked to a 3W Motorola bagphone running
>off ship's 12VDC house batteries, service was near perfect with the beam
>hauled up the mast and pointed towards shore at 55' for about 45-50 miles
>offshore.

The critical issue there is height above the water. Otherwise the signal
would be blocked by the curvature of the earth. It's why lighthouses need to
be tall.

>Every offshore sailor should be carrying a 99 cent thrift store
>bagphone, even if they won't let you put it on the air! With the little
>beam, it works farther than VHF marine usually does and can dial 911 by
>law. Our boat has one that's not provisioned for emergency comms...another
>backup.

EPIRB makes much more sense.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:26:54
GMT, CellGuy <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:34:40 GMT, Bob Scheurle wrote:
>
>> I believe the maximum range for CDMA is about 35 miles.
>
>CDMA's range is limited only by the signal strength between the phone and
>the closest tower. Some users have reported ranges over 50 miles.

Likewise IS-136 and iDEN (both TDMA). Only standard GSM (also TDMA) has a
timing imposed maximum range (of 35 km, not miles).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Notan wrote:
> Isaiah Beard wrote:

>>You're *already* subsidizing phone service for the boonies. Have you
>>paid your cell phone or landline bill lately?
>
>
> And we folks, in the boonies, thank you for your support. <g>

No problem! I like to know I'll have some form of service when I vist
the boonies.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Donald Newcomb wrote:
> "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1HwGe.6324$p%[email protected]...
>
>> Configuring the available timeslots in pairs, Extended Range GSM
>> gives 72 km usable range, but lacks GPRS capability, and halves the
>> number of concurrent calls possible. Using more sensitive BTS
>> receivers, Enhanced Extended Range GSM been demonstrated to be usable
>> at 120 km (with the same drawbacks as ER).
>
>
> True but analog does not have GPRS either.

One of the many reasons people would like to see some for of digital
service in these areas.

What I don't understand is why cellular carriers don't start building
out advancaed digital to rural areas, and advertising services such as
GPRS, EDGE or 1xRTT/EVDO to these areas that are typically underserved
by broadband ISPs. Data services are typically sold at a premium, and
one would think that at least some people living in these areas might be
interested in broadband enough to take a "fixed wireless" solution from
a cell carrier in lieu of nonexistent DSL or cable in these parts.
People paying such a premium to get reliable data would better justify
the cost of the building than just selling the voice service alone.


> Right, we are talking the same limitations as analog at 50 miles. More or
> less, it works from a hilltop. In the places they mentioned in the article
> (e.g. S. Dakota) foliage absorption is not a big issue. We're talking about
> the rural West, not northern Maine. Of course, one issue is how to make an
> antenna high gain at both 850 and 1900 MHz, but that can be limited to
> high-gain at 850 MHz and working reasonably well at 1900.

Considering both CDMA and GSM work just fine in the 850Mhz range, the
incumbent cellular carriers shouldn't really see the 1900MHz issue as a
problem.




--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Joseph Huber wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:53:11 -0500, "Donald Newcomb" wrote:
>
>
>>became a 3-watt digital TDMA phone. Boosters of this sort are still
>>available but AFAIK they are all marked "For export only." (not FCC type
>>accepted)
>
>
> www.digitalantenna.com and www.wilsoncellular.com both sell FCC-type
> accepted (when used with an appropriate antenna) amplifiers and
> repeaters. I travel to the "boonies", and have an amplifier that
> works for AMPS (3 W) and CDMA (2 W). It does work wonders for AMPS.
> I think it helps some for CDMA, but CDMA might have some inherent
> distance limitations.

Yes, CDMA has inherent distance limitations. The timing of each
transmiission by the phone must be in sync with the tower, and beyond a
certain distance it just isn't going to happen. GSM also has a distance
limitation, but I don't think it's as pronounced.



--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:41:18 -0400,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>What I don't understand is why cellular carriers don't start building
>out advancaed digital to rural areas, and advertising services such as
>GPRS, EDGE or 1xRTT/EVDO to these areas that are typically underserved
>by broadband ISPs. Data services are typically sold at a premium, and
>one would think that at least some people living in these areas might be
>interested in broadband enough to take a "fixed wireless" solution from
>a cell carrier in lieu of nonexistent DSL or cable in these parts.
>People paying such a premium to get reliable data would better justify
>the cost of the building than just selling the voice service alone.

In a word, WiMAX.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Isaiah Beard wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
> > Isaiah Beard wrote:
>
> >>You're *already* subsidizing phone service for the boonies. Have you
> >>paid your cell phone or landline bill lately?
> >
> >
> > And we folks, in the boonies, thank you for your support. <g>
>
> No problem! I like to know I'll have some form of service when I vist
> the boonies.

City folks like you is welcome all the time. Just be sure y'all call
ahead... That way Ma can stop sloppin' the hogs and git herself all
prettied up! <g>

Notan

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:44:49 -0400,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>Joseph Huber wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:53:11 -0500, "Donald Newcomb" wrote:
>>
>>>became a 3-watt digital TDMA phone. Boosters of this sort are still
>>>available but AFAIK they are all marked "For export only." (not FCC type
>>>accepted)
>>
>> www.digitalantenna.com and www.wilsoncellular.com both sell FCC-type
>> accepted (when used with an appropriate antenna) amplifiers and
>> repeaters. I travel to the "boonies", and have an amplifier that
>> works for AMPS (3 W) and CDMA (2 W). It does work wonders for AMPS.
>> I think it helps some for CDMA, but CDMA might have some inherent
>> distance limitations.
>
>Yes, CDMA has inherent distance limitations. The timing of each
>transmiission by the phone must be in sync with the tower, and beyond a
>certain distance it just isn't going to happen.

The only real inherent distance limitation in CDMA is signal power (given
suitable terrain). Given the right base station, 3 watt device power, and a
suitable device antenna, range of 50-80 miles is possible.

>GSM also has a distance
>limitation, but I don't think it's as pronounced.

Standard GSM has a distance limitation based on timing of 35 km. That range
can be extended to a range comparable to CDMA by changing the timing.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>