Cingular Switching from GSM a Rumor?

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:19:56 UTC, WhoIsIt <[email protected]> wrote:

> Isaiah Beard wrote:
> > Robby wrote:
> >
> >> He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a
> >> straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a
> >> week) they should have all the towers in my county switched over and
> >> our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after
> >> the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the
> >> "orange" technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know.
> >
> >
> > "Orange" and "Blue" are just euphemisms for the two comapnies that
> > existed prior to Cingular's merger with AT&T wireless. "Orange" refers
> > to Cingular's pre-merger assets and infrastructure (so named because
> > Cingular's primary brand-color is Orange), and "Blue" refers to the
> > assets of the former AT&T wireless (so named for the blue "Death Star"
> > that was AT&T's corporate logo).
> >
> > For a good long while after the merger, Cingular had (and for now,
> > continues to have) to operate two different networks, the "Orange"
> > Cingular network and the "Blue" AT&T Wireless network that it acquired
> > when it finalized the merger. So while financially the two companies
> > are now one, the networks have pretty much continued to operate as if
> > they were two separate (albiet compatible) systems. There have been a
> > few stopgap measure put in place to allow customers on the Orange
> > network to use the Blue network, and vice-versa, but these measures
> > aren't perfect (as you've definitely noticed) and are far from ideal.
> >
> > SO, the ultimate goal for Cingular is to merge the two systems, and make
> > them operate as if they are all one big happy Orange family.
> >
> > Once the migration completes, the color references will effectively be
> > meaningless, because all of the Blue network assets will be assimilated
> > into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single
> > network.
> >
>
> It's more complicated than that. There's actually 3, maybe 4, systems.
> AT&T had both the older TDMA system and the newer GSM. I believe that
> Cimgular also has TDMA systems in some areas as well. I know people
> still on "blue" TDMA as there was no Cingular presence here (Phoenix)
> until the merger. Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers
> moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely.


Which may still be a problem with some of their customers, like my
father. Though he complains more about his TDMA coverage than he used
to, at least he still gets coverage in some out of the way spots away
from major roads than I get with my GSM only phone. I haven't priced
how much a comparable GSM plan would cost him for his several phones,
as well as the price to buy the phones. I believe I've read that
Cingular has specified a Feb 2007 date, or is that 2008, for TDMA.

--

---

› See More: Cingular Switching from GSM a Rumor?

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:52:51 UTC, Isaiah Beard
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Steve Moran wrote:
> > Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a
> > disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds
> > like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company
>
> Typically, places like ePinions and ripoffreport.com are *filled* sour
> grapes and unfulfilled gripes, some truthful, many heavily embellished
> and often rife with conspiracy theories and outright false info. That's
> just the nature of the beast.
>
> > http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mo...splay_~reviews
> > "be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very
> > best providers in the US,
>
> Well, we already know where this compaint is headed. AT&T Wireless
> ended its life with the highest number of FCC complaints in the
> industry. It was many things, but the "very best" it most certainly was
> not.
>
> > they have started the process of taking and
> > converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type.
>
> ...and Cingular's signal type happens to be... *drumroll* GSM!
>
> And signalling formats aside, what did this person expect? It's
> ludicrous for a wireless carrier to buy a network and then attempt to
> run it separately without any effort to integrate the two, gaining
> little to no benefit of synergy from that merger at all (but don't tell
> Sprint that). There IS network integration in progress, but a lot of
> this is helped by the fact that both Cingualr and AT&T had similar
> networks with similar signalling formats (GSM) and a similar upward
> migration path (ultimately to WCDMA and HSPDA).
>
>
> > This came directly
> > from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation
> > might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to
> > disclose.
>
> Ooooooh, scarrrry conpsiracy in the works! This is definitely the
> hallmark of an exaggerated (if not entirely false) complaint. Someone
> had a grudge and felt the need to instil FUD to anyone who might want to
> consider Cingular.
>
>
> > After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously
> > indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my
> > current GSM would be nothing but trash!"
>
> Total BS.
>
> > The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I
> > have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading
> > this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM.
> > This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows
> > anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks.
>
> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine
> now and for a good while in the future.
>
> Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS
> ("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard
> called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is immediately
> and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two are going to
> coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably remain for long
> after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to a UMTS handset,
> if you stay with Cingular that long.
>
>
>

I know that, in the years I had AT&T, their customer service worked
well for me. I only experimented with Sprint (bad experience with
customer service because I had to jump through hoops since a customer
of theirs had my SS number in their system, and I had to fill out the
paperwork to fix it) due to very poor pricing of data plans. Data
plans are better priced now, so I'm back.

--

>
> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine
> now and for a good while in the future.
>
> Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS
> ("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard
> called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is
> immediately and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two
> are going to coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably
> remain for long after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to
> a UMTS handset, if you stay with Cingular that long.
>
>
>
>
What about HSDPA? It seems that Cingular is being secretive on its
exact upgrade path. Economically, it would make sense to just skip UMTS
if HSDPA is being close to market. After all, Cingular came to GSM much
later than European companies.

Any thoughts?

TH

"Kevin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:KIRoJuEXw9g9-pn2-k6e7Fizw7Iuf@ecs...
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:03:00 UTC, John Navas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
> >
> > In <[email protected]> on Wed, 14 Sep 2005
03:59:04
> > GMT, "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
> > >Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular"
towers
> > >and frequencies.
> >
> > Cingular is actually working on "eventually" integrating both networks,
> > decommissioning towers only when there is unnecessary overlap.
> >
> > >As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say
that
> > >if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect
to
> > >lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.
> >
> > Not true.
> >
>
> Isn't this a possibility in some markets, at least in the past?
>
> Selling off of subscribers and spectrum to Alltel and Suncom, for
> example, when it was thought that the combined market share would
> otherwise be too great for the market?
>
> Or changes in other markets where a lot of coverage was done renting
> towers from others, like TMobile? With the purchase of AT&T spectrum
> in those areas, reports of dropping of roaming in areas where Cingular
> now has spectrum.
>
> --
>

Alas I owe everyone an apology about this one. I know I had heard something
about the 850 Mhz towers being decommissioned in markets where there were
both 850 and 1900. After the posts yesterday I did indeed check my sources
and discovered that I was not correct. The real scoop is that in markets
where there are multiple 850/1900 from blue and orange then some of the
850's were being moved to areas with less coverage. This would (of course)
make sense as they wouldn't want to get rid of a complete frequency now
would they!

My apologies for the misinformation.

Kevin K wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:19:56 UTC, WhoIsIt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Isaiah Beard wrote:
>>
>>>Robby wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a
>>>>straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a
>>>>week) they should have all the towers in my county switched over and
>>>>our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after
>>>>the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the
>>>>"orange" technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Orange" and "Blue" are just euphemisms for the two comapnies that
>>>existed prior to Cingular's merger with AT&T wireless. "Orange" refers
>>>to Cingular's pre-merger assets and infrastructure (so named because
>>>Cingular's primary brand-color is Orange), and "Blue" refers to the
>>>assets of the former AT&T wireless (so named for the blue "Death Star"
>>>that was AT&T's corporate logo).
>>>
>>>For a good long while after the merger, Cingular had (and for now,
>>>continues to have) to operate two different networks, the "Orange"
>>>Cingular network and the "Blue" AT&T Wireless network that it acquired
>>>when it finalized the merger. So while financially the two companies
>>>are now one, the networks have pretty much continued to operate as if
>>>they were two separate (albiet compatible) systems. There have been a
>>>few stopgap measure put in place to allow customers on the Orange
>>>network to use the Blue network, and vice-versa, but these measures
>>>aren't perfect (as you've definitely noticed) and are far from ideal.
>>>
>>>SO, the ultimate goal for Cingular is to merge the two systems, and make
>>>them operate as if they are all one big happy Orange family.
>>>
>>>Once the migration completes, the color references will effectively be
>>>meaningless, because all of the Blue network assets will be assimilated
>>>into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single
>>>network.
>>>
>>
>>It's more complicated than that. There's actually 3, maybe 4, systems.
>>AT&T had both the older TDMA system and the newer GSM. I believe that
>>Cimgular also has TDMA systems in some areas as well. I know people
>>still on "blue" TDMA as there was no Cingular presence here (Phoenix)
>>until the merger. Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers
>>moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely.
>
>
>
> Which may still be a problem with some of their customers, like my
> father. Though he complains more about his TDMA coverage than he used
> to, at least he still gets coverage in some out of the way spots away
> from major roads than I get with my GSM only phone. I haven't priced
> how much a comparable GSM plan would cost him for his several phones,
> as well as the price to buy the phones. I believe I've read that
> Cingular has specified a Feb 2007 date, or is that 2008, for TDMA.

He may be getting TDMA coverage or, quite likely, falling back to
analog- something the GSM phones don't do.

Tropical Haven wrote:
>>
>> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine
>> now and for a good while in the future.
>>
>> Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS
>> ("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard
>> called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is
>> immediately and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two
>> are going to coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably
>> remain for long after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to
>> a UMTS handset, if you stay with Cingular that long.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> What about HSDPA? It seems that Cingular is being secretive on its
> exact upgrade path. Economically, it would make sense to just skip UMTS
> if HSDPA is being close to market. After all, Cingular came to GSM much
> later than European companies.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> T

Several articles have been written, March and August of this year that
Cingular was going to do just that. Jump right to HSPDA in all but
those few markets where they already have UMTS and to accomplish this by
the end of this year. But Cingular has not been willing to confirm this
to me however I did receive a communication from one of their reps who
confirmed that there will be an upgrade coming but they would not
announce it in advance. I think there are some technology delays such
as getting handsets that support both GSM and HSPDA, getting the towers
converted (although I hear from multiple sources that is has already
been done but not turned on), getting their internal support staff
trained to deal with the newer technology, and perhaps getting
sufficient bandwidth to the cell sites themselves to support the
additional traffic that will result. There may not be a pressing market
need yet either.

"J Robertson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:k2eWe.3142$si2.3059@trnddc06...
> Tropical Haven wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine
> >> now and for a good while in the future.
> >>
> >> Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS
> >> ("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard
> >> called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is
> >> immediately and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two
> >> are going to coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably
> >> remain for long after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to
> >> a UMTS handset, if you stay with Cingular that long.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > What about HSDPA? It seems that Cingular is being secretive on its
> > exact upgrade path. Economically, it would make sense to just skip UMTS
> > if HSDPA is being close to market. After all, Cingular came to GSM much
> > later than European companies.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > T
>
> Several articles have been written, March and August of this year that
> Cingular was going to do just that. Jump right to HSPDA in all but
> those few markets where they already have UMTS and to accomplish this by
> the end of this year. But Cingular has not been willing to confirm this
> to me however I did receive a communication from one of their reps who
> confirmed that there will be an upgrade coming but they would not
> announce it in advance. I think there are some technology delays such
> as getting handsets that support both GSM and HSPDA, getting the towers
> converted (although I hear from multiple sources that is has already
> been done but not turned on), getting their internal support staff
> trained to deal with the newer technology, and perhaps getting
> sufficient bandwidth to the cell sites themselves to support the
> additional traffic that will result. There may not be a pressing market
> need yet either.

I think that it is a VERY SAFE assumption that until UMTS is available in
more markets than it is now Cingular will not release any new technology to
the public on a wide scale (other than for testing purposes)