Customer Service Complaint

"Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:qEn0f.9822>
> Please excuse the snip here at this point but rather than make you all
> re-read the entire thing I just wanted to say that the unknown secret
> about
> getting the same deal as a new customer is to 1) Be eligible for and
> upgrade
> and 2) Do the upgrade online.
>
>

Give us an example of one of these preferential deals, please.

---

› See More: Customer Service Complaint

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 04:35:34
GMT, "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Please excuse the snip here at this point but rather than make you all
>re-read the entire thing I just wanted to say that the unknown secret ...

Rather than a known secret?

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Somewhere around Tue, 04 Oct 2005 04:35:34 GMT, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from "Cliff"
<[email protected]>:

>"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> I've never had any problems with Cingular customer service. They've always
>> been helpful and accomodating. If only they would allow existing
>customers
>> to get as good a deal on new phones as new customers, I'd probably stay
>with
>> them, but I may leave to get a better phone deal.
>>
>
><snip>
>
>Please excuse the snip here at this point but rather than make you all
>re-read the entire thing I just wanted to say that the unknown secret about
>getting the same deal as a new customer is to 1) Be eligible for and upgrade
>and 2) Do the upgrade online.
>
I check the online prices at Cingular's site all the time, and they are
cheaper than going to a Cingular store, but still significantly more than a
place like Amazon for new service only (like about $75 - 100 more per
phone). Starts adding up with 3 members on my plan.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

> ><snip>
> >
> >Please excuse the snip here at this point but rather than make you all
> >re-read the entire thing I just wanted to say that the unknown secret
about
> >getting the same deal as a new customer is to 1) Be eligible for and
upgrade
> >and 2) Do the upgrade online.
> >
> I check the online prices at Cingular's site all the time, and they are
> cheaper than going to a Cingular store, but still significantly more than
a
> place like Amazon for new service only (like about $75 - 100 more per
> phone). Starts adding up with 3 members on my plan.
>

Well now - we are talking about something completely different here.
Companies like Amazon.com and even many local resellers are able to offer
you devices at even lower rates than Cingular can offer them.

Here's the thing. Cingular pays commissions on activations. I am guessing
the companies use a portion of the commissions to offset the price on the
device.

It would be interesting to get the real scoop on this from someone who has
the real scoop.

And a valid point was made John. Unknown secrets. hmmm. What was I
thinking?

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:46:18 GMT,
"Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I check the online prices at Cingular's site all the time, and they are
>> cheaper than going to a Cingular store, but still significantly more than a
>> place like Amazon for new service only (like about $75 - 100 more per
>> phone). Starts adding up with 3 members on my plan.
>
>Well now - we are talking about something completely different here.
>Companies like Amazon.com and even many local resellers are able to offer
>you devices at even lower rates than Cingular can offer them.
>
>Here's the thing. Cingular pays commissions on activations. I am guessing
>the companies use a portion of the commissions to offset the price on the
>device.
>
>It would be interesting to get the real scoop on this from someone who has
>the real scoop.

You are correct. Also, folks like Cingular are usually careful not to
undercut or even match their resellers so as not to drive them away.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[email protected] Wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:03:53 GMT, "Cliff" [email protected]
> wrote:
> -
>
> [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...[color=green][i]
> AT&T was a very respected organization. Cingular has turned it into
> the sleaziest piece of corporate garbage in the United States. I
> don't say that easily. My mother retired from AT&tT with 33 years
> service. She herself has chosen, even being entitled to discount
> service for life, to change cell carriers, because of problems she
> and
> many of her family and friends have had with the Cingular attitude.
>
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:54:52 GMT, "Andy S"
> Of all the responses, yours is the only one that took the time to
> both
> question my isues and offer a legitimate avenue of recourse. I've
> further explained the situation after each
> paragraph.[color=blue][i][i]
> -
> While you are correct that they are (were) two different companies,
> AT&T retirees were entitled to discounted cellular service through
> AT&T wireless. Also, this was grandfathered to those who had service
> when the Cingular takeover took place. If my mother had not cancelled
> her cell service, she would be entitled to a discounted cell-phone
> plan, for life, through Cingular.-
>
> But the real question here is that if you canceled your service and are
> no
> longer a Cingular customer then what is your reasoning behind
> complaining
> about something that is over with? Do you think that they (Cingular)
> is
> going to give you anything as an EX customer? I would think not.-
>
> I understand your view on this, and would normally give the same
> advice. However, this is where my anger with Cingular began. I
> signed up for a "Regional Plan", which provided a map with my coverage
> area. As you know, these maps are ambiguous in nature. It included
> parts of some states, and the actual barrier lines are hard to
> distinguish. In January, 2004, I was working(for 2 weeks) in a rural
> area that was close to the service boundary line. I called Customer
> Service and explianed the situation. I was worried that I was
> roaming, and would be charged as such. I was assured by the CSR that
> I was not roaming. The CSR state that, "...as long as it says AT&T on
> your phone, you are fine." I wasn't comfortable with the answer,
> since I didn't want an enormous roaming bill, so I asked to speak to a
> supervisor. The supervisor also stated that the area I was in was
> covered by my plan. Fortunately, that supervisor detailed our
> conversation. On my next bill, I was charged over $300 in roaming
> charges. Because of the notes from the Supervisor, I was credited the
> roaming charges (after about an hour, speaking to three different reps
> and specifically asking them to read the notes from my previous call
> of concern). Unfornuately, because my trip overlapped billing cycles,
> I was charged an additional $45 the following month due to the same
> trip. Instead of another hour long confrontation, I paid the bill and
> immediately purchased Sprint wireless. I continued to use the AT&T
> phone, sporadically, until February of this year, then packed it away.
> As I stated above, in April, 2005, I checked my voicemail twice (the
> last time the phone was powered up). When my August bill posted, it
> stated that my balance was over $50. Since no activity had occurred,
> the bill should have been about $35. I called and spoke with a CSR.
> After 45 minutes with the CSR, I was finally transferred to a
> Supervisor, who credited the account. Apologies were given, and,
> other than the length of time it took to resolve the issue I was
> satisfied. At that time, I specifically asked exactly when my
> anniversary date was, and noted it on the calendar. I still think
> that it should not take an hour to cancel an account once it is
> satisfied. Nothing could have been promised to me to keep me as a
> customer. Nothing. Remember, I have been paying for a service for 8
> months that, not only did I hate but, was not using.
>
> Customer service is important. Cingular, like others, will eventually
> implode. Delta, Northwest, etc. were giants in their industry, but
> decided that the customer was secondary to profits. Southwest (and
> others), while frugal, still value performance and, in turn, profit
> from it. As the industry becomes even more competitive, the cream
> will rise and the others will have to file BK to survive. Nonsense?
> If I would have told youtwenty years ago that AT&T would be purchased
> by a Ma Bell upstart, would you have believed it?
>
> Thanks for you comments.-
>
> And the food chain is.....
> Care Rep
> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
> Manager
> Call Center Director
> Regional VP
> VP
> Office of the President
>
>
> Good Luck!-
>
> Thanks-
>
> -
I dont understand what your issue is now. They made a mistake with the
roaming and credited back what you asked for. You then didn't give them
a chance to finish the job by calling in next month whan the rest of the
roaming came in (how could they credit charges that were not billed yet
and they were never told about). There was another billing mistake and
they credited that back too. Then they tried their hardest to satisfy
you to keep you as a customer. What more could they have done?
If you are upset about the time it took to do these things, try to look
at it from the other side. If every person who called in and said "I
have large roaming charges and I want them credited" and the
representative did so imediately, Cingular would go bankrupt. Each
representative has to check all the notes on the account, (There could
be alot especially is the cust has called in a number of times), check
exactly where the roaming occured (sometimes that is difficult because
the maps dont always have all the cities searchable), check Policies
and Procedures to make sure they wont loose their job by giving you the
credit and then maybe transfer to another department and explain
everything if the credit is over their limit. This all takes time and
if the representative does it wrong enough time he or she could be
fired.
I'd like you to notice something, Cingular no longer has regional
plans. There are reasons for this and the roaming issues you
experiences are probably one of them. Very few people ever were on the
regional plans because the national plans were only a little more
expensive and garaunteed no roam no long dstance in the US. It is not
inconceivable that the reps who gave you the inaccurate info in the
first place haden't seen a regional plan in months and made an honest
mistake.
I also would like to check on you definition of lie. My definition is
telling someone something that they know to be untrue for some purpose.
Do you really think that the initial rep and supervisor lied to you when
the only possible outcome would be to upset you and cause you to call in
to get the issue fixed? Since that also wrote what they told you down
they can and probably have been hauled up on the carpet for giving that
misinformation. Do you really thing a customer care representative would
sit there and think "Today I am going to tell the next customer a lie so
he will get a huge bill and cause us to have to figure out exactly what
happened and credit him back. Oh yeah and I will make sure that I write
down all my lies so my supervisor can come have a long talk about
chacking facts and being sure what I tell the customers is accurate.
Boy that will be fun". Everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.


--
movak

[email protected] Wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:03:53 GMT, "Cliff" [email protected]
> wrote:
> -
>
> JWhile you are correct that they are (were) two different companies,
> AT&T retirees were entitled to discounted cellular service through
> AT&T wireless. Also, this was grandfathered to those who had service
> when the Cingular takeover took place. If my mother had not cancelled
> her cell service, she would be entitled to a discounted cell-phone
> plan, for life, through Cingular.[i]
>
>
> -
AT&T and AT&T Wireless are two completely seperate companies. They
traded seperately on the stock exchange under ATT and ATTWS. When AT&T
Wireless started they did not have a name. They looked around for a
name that already had brand loyalty and came to an agreement with AT&T
to license their name and logo. That is the only connection between
AT&T and AT&T Wireless. When Cingular bought/merged with AT&T Wireless
that licensing agreement was recended. That is why you will never again
see the AT&T logo on any former AT&T wireless plans, equipment, bills
etc. The relationship your mother has with the former AT&T
Wireless/Cingular and AT&T is by a foundation account contract. This is
a contract between Cingular and AT&T which stipulates what discounts
customers get and what obligations AT&T has towards Cingular (these
obligations are usually some minimum revenue figures). If the contract
runs out (all fan contracts run out and must be reviewed) and Cingular
and AT&T can not come to an agreement, all discounts for everyone will
no longer apply. Therefore, here is no such thing as a "for life"
discount: the discounts are based on contracts. It hasen't happened
very often but there have been times when a large company and Cingular
could not come to an agreement and everyone on the foundation account
were effected.


--
movak

Cliff Wrote:[color=blue]
> [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...[i]
> And the food chain is.....
> Care Rep
> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
> Manager
> Call Center Director
> Regional VP
> VP
> Office of the President
>
>
> Good Luck!
The "food chain" is not accurate. After the CSR it can go in 2
directions; floor supervisor or resolution desk. Anyone who asks for a
supervisor will be offered a resolution specialist instead. If that
offer is given, take it. If it is not given ask for resolution. The
floor supervisors are personel supervisors. They handle time sheets,
statistics, etc. They are not experts on the current systems, current
issues and sometimes current policy. On the other hand, the resolution
specialist's job is to keep up on all the daily changes in the system
and to know every policy and rate plan and how to find them and
interpret them. Most resolution specialists have worked for a long time
as a CSR and you won't get someone who has only worked for a week and
accidentally gives misinformation. Also the environment in Resolution
is different than in the regular line group. resolution gets all the
hard calls. So if there is an issue a resolution representative can't
handle there is usually someone close by who has handled that issue and
will help out. This concentration of knowledge and expertise can fix
alot of issues. Would you rather talk to a resolution specialist who
has dealt with difficult issue all day and are used to them and are
backed up by a team of similar professional. Or do you want to talk to
a personel supervisor who has been running around for the last 3 days
trying to get all her monitors done, statistics compiled and hasn't
actually taken a call in a couple of weeks. Supervisor sounds good but
in most cases it is the wrong way to go.


--
movak

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:12:20 +0000,
movak <[email protected]> wrote:

>AT&T and AT&T Wireless are two completely seperate companies. They
>traded seperately on the stock exchange under ATT and ATTWS.

True.

>When AT&T
>Wireless started they did not have a name. They looked around for a
>name that already had brand loyalty and came to an agreement with AT&T
>to license their name and logo. That is the only connection between
>AT&T and AT&T Wireless.

What actually happened is that ATTWS was originally part of ATT, and when spun
off by ATT, kept use of the ATT name as a non-transferable asset.

>When Cingular bought/merged with AT&T Wireless
>that licensing agreement was recended.

It was actually simply non-transferrable to Cingular.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:15:02 +0000,
movak <[email protected]> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Cliff Wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...[i]
>> And the food chain is.....
>> Care Rep
>> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
>> Manager
>> Call Center Director
>> Regional VP
>> VP
>> Office of the President

>The "food chain" is not accurate. After the CSR it can go in 2
>directions; floor supervisor or resolution desk. Anyone who asks for a
>supervisor will be offered a resolution specialist instead.

In fact it's difficult and rare to get a "resolution specialist".

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:06:41 +0000, movak
<[email protected]> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>[email protected] Wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:03:53 GMT, "Cliff" [email protected]
>> wrote:
>> -
>>
>> [email protected] wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...[i]
>> AT&T was a very respected organization. Cingular has turned it into
>> the sleaziest piece of corporate garbage in the United States. I
SNIPADOODLE

I understand.
I have 11 months to go, and sadly can't afford two cell phones.
I have to say Cingular coverage and signal is fantastic, but they
have little experience with customer service.
Ed Wright

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...[color=blue]
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:15:02 +0000,
> movak <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Cliff Wrote:
> >> [email protected] wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...[i]
> >> And the food chain is.....
> >> Care Rep
> >> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
> >> Manager
> >> Call Center Director
> >> Regional VP
> >> VP
> >> Office of the President
>
> >The "food chain" is not accurate. After the CSR it can go in 2
> >directions; floor supervisor or resolution desk. Anyone who asks for a
> >supervisor will be offered a resolution specialist instead.
>
> In fact it's difficult and rare to get a "resolution specialist".
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

To my knowledge there are no more resolution specialists that take calls any
more. What was the resolutions department was stopped when floor
supervisors started taking escalations.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:41:50
GMT, "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> In <[email protected]> on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:15:02 +0000,
>> movak <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Cliff Wrote:
>> >> [email protected] wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]...[i]
>> >> And the food chain is.....
>> >> Care Rep
>> >> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
>> >> Manager
>> >> Call Center Director
>> >> Regional VP
>> >> VP
>> >> Office of the President
>>
>> >The "food chain" is not accurate. After the CSR it can go in 2
>> >directions; floor supervisor or resolution desk. Anyone who asks for a
>> >supervisor will be offered a resolution specialist instead.
>>
>> In fact it's difficult and rare to get a "resolution specialist".
>
>To my knowledge there are no more resolution specialists that take calls any
>more. What was the resolutions department was stopped when floor
>supervisors started taking escalations.

FWIW, I've twice been transferred to "escalation" in the past few months (at
my insistence).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Cliff Wrote:[color=blue]
> "John Navas" [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In [email protected] on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:15:02
> +0000,
> movak [email protected] wrote:
>
> Cliff Wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...[i]
> And the food chain is.....
> Care Rep
> Floor Manager (Supervisor)
> Manager
> Call Center Director
> Regional VP
> VP
> Office of the President
>
> The "food chain" is not accurate. After the CSR it can go in 2
> directions; floor supervisor or resolution desk. Anyone who asks for
> a
> supervisor will be offered a resolution specialist instead.
>
> In fact it's difficult and rare to get a "resolution specialist".
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular
>
> To my knowledge there are no more resolution specialists that take
> calls any
> more. What was the resolutions department was stopped when floor
> supervisors started taking escalations.
I know for sure that Cingular had Resolution Specialists. I could tell
you how I know but then I would have to kill you. You can not be denied
acces to Resolutions. That is not to say you can request the right off.
The representaive must make every effort to resolve the situations
before transfering. Many time the representative will call a resolution
specialist, explain the situation and the Resolution Specialist will say
what can be done. The customere rarely sees this.


--
movak

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:21:57 +0000, movak
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I know for sure that Cingular had Resolution Specialists. I could tell
>you how I know but then I would have to kill you. You can not be denied
>acces to Resolutions. That is not to say you can request the right off.
>The representaive must make every effort to resolve the situations
>before transfering. Many time the representative will call a resolution
>specialist, explain the situation and the Resolution Specialist will say
>what can be done. The customere rarely sees this.

I know "for sure" (without having to kill anyone) that in many (most?) cases
the phone rep doesn't have direct access to anything like a "resolution
specialist". Worse, the phone rep has very little authority to correct
problems, so "must make every effort to resolve" tends to result in saying
"no" over and over to reasonable requests and solutions. It's not a good
system.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>