TDMA to GSM

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 24 Oct 2005
01:57:44 GMT, Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. ...

Cingular was selling TDMA phones last year.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: TDMA to GSM

Jerome,
I am happy to provide that information. For the following news page:

http://www.mountainwireless.com/news/

for the August 26th article, I interviewed Ritch Blasi, the technical
spokesman for Cingular Wireless, who says the expected cutoff date is "the
first quarter, 2008".

Mr Blasi also outlined how many TDMA customers are still active (10
Million), and points out that while they constitute 20% of their customer
base, they only make 10% of the calls.

-Bill Radio



"Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be maintained
> until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for it to be
> turned off then. What do you base that date on?

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:57:44 UTC, Jerome Zelinske
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. They do not last
> forever, especially the batteries. cingular has launched gsm on their
> entire network. You can't get more equaled than that. A plan is no
> good if there is no signal to use.
>
>
> Joseph wrote:
> > On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:07:29 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not
> >>say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
> >>carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
> >>users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I
> >>can see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be
> >>profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to
> >>keep them running.
> >
> >
> > And you know how many TDMA customers are left just how? I imagine
> > there are still a good number of people who haven't left TDMA for GSM
> > yet. They are likely on plans that cingular cannot duplicate or their
> > area's GSM coverage has not yet equalled that of the TDMA service.
> >
> > - -
> >



At this point, it isn't just Cingular's network that has to be
considered, but the networks of roaming partners. Unless you remain
with a pre-paid plan, you will likely roam at some point while driving
long distances.

I sure noticed a few weeks ago how bad coverage was in Kansas and
Nebraska compared to Oklahoma when off the major interstates. We
would get signal (my dad on TDMA, myself on GSM). Then it would go
away in a short distance. Then back again.

But in most cases, we both had signal together or not. A few times,
he had signal and I didn't, and once I had it and he didn't.

As of the end of the 3rd quarter, per Cingular's reported results, TDMA
subscribers are now down to 18%, or about 9 million, and they made only 7% of
calls.


In <[email protected]> on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:04:32 -0600,
"Bill Radio" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Jerome,
>I am happy to provide that information. For the following news page:
>
>http://www.mountainwireless.com/news/
>
>for the August 26th article, I interviewed Ritch Blasi, the technical
>spokesman for Cingular Wireless, who says the expected cutoff date is "the
>first quarter, 2008".
>
>Mr Blasi also outlined how many TDMA customers are still active (10
>Million), and points out that while they constitute 20% of their customer
>base, they only make 10% of the calls.
>
>-Bill Radio
>
>
>
>"Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be maintained
>> until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for it to be
>> turned off then. What do you base that date on?
>

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:24:41
-0700, Joseph <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:04:32 -0600, "Bill Radio"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Mr Blasi also outlined how many TDMA customers are still active (10
>>Million), and points out that while they constitute 20% of their customer
>>base, they only make 10% of the calls
>
>Does that 10 million also include those who use cingular's TDMA
>network through MVNOs such as CallPlus, JusTalk and Beyond Wireless?

<http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=1346>:

"... 93 percent of minutes now on Cingular's GSM network"

So hard to say, but seems to me it probably includes roaming partners as well
as own subscribers.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:22:34 UTC, Joseph <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:57:44 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. They do not last
> >forever, especially the batteries. cingular has launched gsm on their
> >entire network. You can't get more equaled than that. A plan is no
> >good if there is no signal to use.
>
> I know you love to play Jeopardy but I don't so bear with me.
>
> You *still* don't get it! There are still *many* people both native
> cingular and former ATTWS subscribers who have not converted to GSM
> and still retain their TDMA handsets many of which are less than two
> years old. cingular stopped selling TDMA handsets but not the "many
> years" ago that you claim. cingular only started to sell GSM in their
> non-GSM areas only since 2002 since there weren't even any GSM 850
> handsets on the market before then and cingular hadn't overlaid GSM on
> anything and the only GSM they had was in California, Nevada,
> Washington state and in the Carolinas on PCS.
>
> >
> >Joseph wrote:
> >> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:07:29 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not
> >>>say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
> >>>carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
> >>>users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I
> >>>can see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be
> >>>profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to
> >>>keep them running.
> >>
> >>
> >> And you know how many TDMA customers are left just how? I imagine
> >> there are still a good number of people who haven't left TDMA for GSM
> >> yet. They are likely on plans that cingular cannot duplicate or their
> >> area's GSM coverage has not yet equalled that of the TDMA service.
> >>
> >> - -
> >>
>
> - -
>


--

I believe my father has used the "insurance" within the last year to
get a new TDMA phone after the previous one stopped working. But that
may not be the same as just ordering a new one from Cingular.

I believe he considers the coverage not as good as a few years ago,
which would agree with some reports here, plus cancelling of some
"duplicate" coverage with the purchase of AT&T WS by Cingular. He
only went to AT&T WS years ago when the very early TDMA coverage by
SBC (later Cingular) wasn't good for his purposes.

Jerome Zelinske wrote:

> It is my understanding that cingular's entire network has been
> overlaid with gsm. Therefore their entire tdma coverage area is now
> covered by gsm.

Agreed. Possibly you are experiencing problems because former TDMA
roaming partners have chosen not to upgrade or upgraded to CDMA?

Jerome Zelinske wrote:

> Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. They do not last
> forever, especially the batteries. cingular has launched gsm on their
> entire network. You can't get more equaled than that. A plan is no
> good if there is no signal to use.


Actually, Cingular was selling TDMA phones with new contracted service
last year. Some areas, where there was not enough spectrum to run both
technologies effectively, Cingular did a "cold" coverage change, where
one day it was all TDMA service, and the next day it was all GSM
service. In some parts of Florida, including the GTA ("Greater" Tampa
Area), the switch was on or around 25 June 2004. During this transition
time period, either directly before or directly after the change in
coverage, *all* users were allowed to roam on AT&T Wireless. This time
was after Cingular won the bid for AT&T Wireless, but before the
acquisition was legally and offically approved.

That's almost exactly 16 months ago....which is not many years.

Depending upon the market, TDMA may not have been sold for many years,
if at all (Pacific Bell Wireless and BellSouth DCS were always GSM,
which some of the predecessors of Cingular Wireless).

>As of the end of the 3rd quarter, Cingular has just 18% of subscribers on
>TDMA, or about 9 million out of over 50 million.
>
>
>
That's just raw numbers, most of the use is with the GSM network. I
would guess a lot of those subscribers are on prepaid or 10 or 20 dollar
per month plans, used mainly for emergencies and occasional use.

cingular does not have to consider anybody else's network. Their
entire network is gsm. They have given the inherited att tdma customers
enough time to move off of tdma and become cingular customers or someone
else's customers. cingular can turn att's tdma network off anytime they
want, with no loss to cingular's customers.

>
> At this point, it isn't just Cingular's network that has to be
> considered, but the networks of roaming partners. Unless you remain
> with a pre-paid plan, you will likely roam at some point while driving
> long distances.
>
> I sure noticed a few weeks ago how bad coverage was in Kansas and
> Nebraska compared to Oklahoma when off the major interstates. We
> would get signal (my dad on TDMA, myself on GSM). Then it would go
> away in a short distance. Then back again.
>
> But in most cases, we both had signal together or not. A few times,
> he had signal and I didn't, and once I had it and he didn't.

Well, they say memory is the second thing to go. If I remember
correctly, by the time I stopped selling phones at the end of 2002,
cingular in WI was no longer selling tdma. For just how long before
that they stopped, I don't recall. Didn't someone post that cingular
was not holding any tdma customer to a contract or etf? cingular bought
the spectrum and offered an easy transition for the att customers, but
did not say that they would stay in the tdma business long term. They
were/are quite plain about staying a gsm only company.


Tropical Haven wrote:
> Jerome Zelinske wrote:
>
>> Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. They do not last
>> forever, especially the batteries. cingular has launched gsm on their
>> entire network. You can't get more equaled than that.
>
>
>
> Actually, Cingular was selling TDMA phones with new contracted service
> last year. Some areas, where there was not enough spectrum to run both
> technologies effectively, Cingular did a "cold" coverage change, where
> one day it was all TDMA service, and the next day it was all GSM
> service. In some parts of Florida, including the GTA ("Greater" Tampa
> Area), the switch was on or around 25 June 2004. During this transition
> time period, either directly before or directly after the change in
> coverage, *all* users were allowed to roam on AT&T Wireless. This time
> was after Cingular won the bid for AT&T Wireless, but before the
> acquisition was legally and offically approved.
>
> That's almost exactly 16 months ago....which is not many years.
> Depending upon the market, TDMA may not have been sold for many years,
> if at all (Pacific Bell Wireless and BellSouth DCS were always GSM,
> which some of the predecessors of Cingular Wireless).

Even if there are that many, 9 million, are they enough to keep the
tdma network profitable? And that number is likely dropping quickly.


Tropical Haven wrote:
>
>> As of the end of the 3rd quarter, Cingular has just 18% of subscribers on
>> TDMA, or about 9 million out of over 50 million.
>>
>>
>>
> That's just raw numbers, most of the use is with the GSM network. I
> would guess a lot of those subscribers are on prepaid or 10 or 20 dollar
> per month plans, used mainly for emergencies and occasional use.

John Navas wrote:
> <http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=1346>:
>
> "... 93 percent of minutes now on Cingular's GSM network"
>
> So hard to say, but seems to me it probably includes roaming partners as well
> as own subscribers.

I saw a similar number in a cellular trade magazine describing the Texas
GSM market. Cingular rep used an acronym for something like Total
Minutes Used to describe GSM availability. Was misleading as one could
say San Antonio, Houston and the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex support 90%
of the revenue and leave 90% of the state out in the cold without GSM.

>>Mr Blasi also outlined how many TDMA customers are still active (10
>>Million), and points out that while they constitute 20% of their customer
>>base, they only make 10% of the calls.

Cingular could shut down TDMA all together in Texas and only loose a
small percent of their minutes used base. 95% of their revenue comes
from the three major metroplex areas...everyting else is a cost, not
profit, center.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <2%[email protected]> on Thu, 17 Nov 2005
19:38:38 GMT, DecTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>Mr Blasi also outlined how many TDMA customers are still active (10
>>>Million), and points out that while they constitute 20% of their customer
>>>base, they only make 10% of the calls.
>
>Cingular could shut down TDMA all together in Texas and only loose a
>small percent of their minutes used base. 95% of their revenue comes
>from the three major metroplex areas...everyting else is a cost, not
>profit, center.

It's still a profit center in the sense that subscribers from the three major
metroplex areas expect their mobile devices to work elsewhere in Texas.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
MY HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
<http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>