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  1. #1
    LiRM
    Guest

    I've been on Verizon a long time. I went to check to update my phone
    the other day and found I was eligible to get a new RAZR for free.

    That was the good news.

    Having been fooled before (getting a v710 only to find OBEX not
    enabled), I went to the Bluetooth FAQ only to find they have - get
    this - disabled ALL parts of the Bluetooth profile that has allowed me
    in the past to pair with Palm Zire to use the phone as a modem.

    I couldn't believe what I was reading.

    I called in to verify this with a few different support reps and they
    confirmed it.

    Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    the phone to function as a modem.

    Are they out of their minds?

    Seriously.

    They have lost it all together.

    Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    why on Earth would they do such a thing?

    Oh yeah! Money!

    They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    for it now.

    And yes, I have done this for 7 years. My first device that this
    worked with a Visor Deluxe. Granted, it required a cable, but it
    worked.

    I hate to have to switch carriers - because in all honesty they have
    excellent coverage - probably the best of all carriers. Since my
    phones have been trimode's, I have gotten service in the boonies at
    times when no one else could. No drop offs. At this - they are
    excellent at. Give credit where credit is due.

    Alas, I have an order in for a RAZR from Cingular whilst we speak -
    which has the entire Bluetooth profile enabled.

    Verizon - if you are here and listening - you are on the verge of
    losing a customer that's been one for YEARS. Since you took over
    whoever you took over to begin with when you first started. Been with
    you guys since day 1.

    I wouldn't have minded paying for the service (I will with Cingular -
    20 bucks a month for unlimited net usage - sucks, but at least I can
    do it for Christs'sake).

    But to go ahead and completely disable this aspect of a Bluetooth
    profile when it's one of the primary reasons Bluetooth was developed?

    I can almost imagine the meeting where this took place - with some of
    the people in that meeting realizing just how ludicrous this is. I
    can guarantee you that they must have been looking at the mensa
    candidate who came up with this idea as if they had literally lost
    their mind.

    I actually had to read the FAQ a couple of times to believe this
    myself. In spite of all the insanity that followed the v710's lawsuit
    about this very issue. you guys go ahead and kill this part of the
    profile anyway?

    Man, you ****er's are out of your minds. I mean do whatcha gotta do
    to make a buck and all, but there must be guys at Cingular, Sprint,
    you name it - laughing this asses off over this - and probably will be
    for months.

    For people like me who probably use their phones more as a device to
    connect to the net then they do talk, you are literally forcing people
    to walk away.

    This will go down in cellular history as one of the biggest **** ups
    ever implemented.

    Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other phone to get
    this to work, but **** that. If you're a Verizon customer and
    *that's* what you're doing to get parts of your phone working at some
    point you have to ask yourself - why the **** am I putting myself
    through all this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    that forces you to go through that to make your phone work the way it
    was designed to in the first place? (In other words what Moto giveth
    you, Verizon taketh away. lol. **** them).

    Sorry. I just don't get it.

    I've got 30 days to screw around with this phone from Cingular. Then
    it's decision time. Send it back to Cingular or keep it and make the
    switch. Maybe Verizon will shake some marbles loose during this
    period and realize what a stupid move this is.

    Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone gets
    to fix them. Do the right thing and give back what you stupidly took
    away.

    Regards,

    LiRM



    See More: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?




  2. #2
    kevin weaver
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    "LiRM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I've been on Verizon a long time. I went to check to update my phone
    > the other day and found I was eligible to get a new RAZR for free.
    >
    > That was the good news.
    >
    > Having been fooled before (getting a v710 only to find OBEX not
    > enabled), I went to the Bluetooth FAQ only to find they have - get
    > this - disabled ALL parts of the Bluetooth profile that has allowed me
    > in the past to pair with Palm Zire to use the phone as a modem.
    >
    > I couldn't believe what I was reading.
    >
    > I called in to verify this with a few different support reps and they
    > confirmed it.
    >
    > Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    > the phone to function as a modem.
    >
    > Are they out of their minds?
    >
    > Seriously.
    >
    > They have lost it all together.
    >
    > Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    > why on Earth would they do such a thing?
    >
    > Oh yeah! Money!
    >
    > They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    > quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    > instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    > done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    > for it now.
    >
    > And yes, I have done this for 7 years. My first device that this
    > worked with a Visor Deluxe. Granted, it required a cable, but it
    > worked.
    >
    > I hate to have to switch carriers - because in all honesty they have
    > excellent coverage - probably the best of all carriers. Since my
    > phones have been trimode's, I have gotten service in the boonies at
    > times when no one else could. No drop offs. At this - they are
    > excellent at. Give credit where credit is due.
    >
    > Alas, I have an order in for a RAZR from Cingular whilst we speak -
    > which has the entire Bluetooth profile enabled.
    >
    > Verizon - if you are here and listening - you are on the verge of
    > losing a customer that's been one for YEARS. Since you took over
    > whoever you took over to begin with when you first started. Been with
    > you guys since day 1.
    >
    > I wouldn't have minded paying for the service (I will with Cingular -
    > 20 bucks a month for unlimited net usage - sucks, but at least I can
    > do it for Christs'sake).
    >
    > But to go ahead and completely disable this aspect of a Bluetooth
    > profile when it's one of the primary reasons Bluetooth was developed?
    >
    > I can almost imagine the meeting where this took place - with some of
    > the people in that meeting realizing just how ludicrous this is. I
    > can guarantee you that they must have been looking at the mensa
    > candidate who came up with this idea as if they had literally lost
    > their mind.
    >
    > I actually had to read the FAQ a couple of times to believe this
    > myself. In spite of all the insanity that followed the v710's lawsuit
    > about this very issue. you guys go ahead and kill this part of the
    > profile anyway?
    >
    > Man, you ****er's are out of your minds. I mean do whatcha gotta do
    > to make a buck and all, but there must be guys at Cingular, Sprint,
    > you name it - laughing this asses off over this - and probably will be
    > for months.
    >
    > For people like me who probably use their phones more as a device to
    > connect to the net then they do talk, you are literally forcing people
    > to walk away.
    >
    > This will go down in cellular history as one of the biggest **** ups
    > ever implemented.
    >
    > Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other phone to get
    > this to work, but **** that. If you're a Verizon customer and
    > *that's* what you're doing to get parts of your phone working at some
    > point you have to ask yourself - why the **** am I putting myself
    > through all this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    > that forces you to go through that to make your phone work the way it
    > was designed to in the first place? (In other words what Moto giveth
    > you, Verizon taketh away. lol. **** them).
    >
    > Sorry. I just don't get it.
    >
    > I've got 30 days to screw around with this phone from Cingular. Then
    > it's decision time. Send it back to Cingular or keep it and make the
    > switch. Maybe Verizon will shake some marbles loose during this
    > period and realize what a stupid move this is.
    >
    > Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone gets
    > to fix them. Do the right thing and give back what you stupidly took
    > away.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > LiRM



    They won't. You figure the 710 class action would have had some effect.
    Nope, they don't care.







  3. #3
    Quick
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    LiRM wrote:

    > get a new RAZR for free.


    > Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile
    > that allows the phone to function as a modem.


    > Oh yeah! Money!
    >
    > They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they
    > can get a quarter out of. Like being able to transfer
    > mp3's. Or pictures. Or instead of just using my minutes
    > to connect to the net - like I have done literally for
    > the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass for it
    > now.


    There you have it. They *want* you to pay. You have
    to do that on your own free will. Apparently others are.

    > And yes, I have done this for 7 years. .


    > Verizon - if you are here and listening - you are on the
    > verge of losing a customer that's been one for YEARS.


    Sounds like you were a big spender.

    > But to go ahead and completely disable this aspect of a
    > Bluetooth profile when it's one of the primary reasons
    > Bluetooth was developed?


    I'm still reading this over and over... Is this some sort of
    technology blasphemy? Are you a BT disciple or something?

    > I can almost imagine the meeting where this took place -
    > with some of the people in that meeting realizing just
    > how ludicrous this is. I can guarantee you that they
    > must have been looking at the mensa candidate who
    > came up with this idea as if they had literally lost their mind.


    He was lucky they didn't throw him to the ground and
    brand "BT" into his forehead.

    > I actually had to read the FAQ a couple of times to
    > believe this myself. In spite of all the insanity that
    > followed the v710's lawsuit about this very issue. you
    > guys go ahead and kill this part of the profile anyway?


    No confusion now. "NO BT modem"

    > Man, you ****er's are out of your minds. I mean do
    > whatcha gotta do to make a buck and all, but there must
    > be guys at Cingular, Sprint, you name it - laughing this
    > asses off over this - and probably will be for months.


    Thanks for the heads up. I'll dump my stock right away.

    > For people like me who probably use their phones more as
    > a device to connect to the net then they do talk, you are
    > literally forcing people to walk away.


    Lets see.... 33+ million and maybe 10K left?

    > This will go down in cellular history as one of the
    > biggest **** ups ever implemented.


    Certainly right up there with the savings and loan
    collapse, Enron, ...

    > Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other
    > phone to get this to work, but **** that. If you're a
    > Verizon customer and *that's* what you're doing to get
    > parts of your phone working at some point you have to ask
    > yourself - why the **** am I putting myself through all
    > this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    > that forces you to go through that to make your phone
    > work the way it was designed to in the first place? (In
    > other words what Moto giveth you, Verizon taketh away.
    > lol. **** them).


    Actually Moto taketh away. VZW doesn't do phone
    software/firmware.

    > Sorry. I just don't get it.


    You really don't...

    > I've got 30 days to screw around with this phone from
    > Cingular. Then it's decision time. Send it back to
    > Cingular or keep it and make the switch. Maybe Verizon
    > will shake some marbles loose during this period and
    > realize what a stupid move this is.


    Give them some time. I'm sure they have passed your
    address to the Moto CEO and they're making you a gold
    plated, custom Razor with every wireless technology
    currently known to man.

    > Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not
    > everyone gets to fix them. Do the right thing and give
    > back what you stupidly took away.







  4. #4
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <1O%[email protected]> on Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:31:42 -0800, "kevin
    weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >They won't. You figure the 710 class action would have had some effect.
    >Nope, they don't care.


    Of course "they" [Verizon] care. "They" know that most customers don't care
    about this issue as compared to other issues.

    The class action was silly, and only settled (not adjudicated) because that
    cost much less than fighting, which is what unscrupulous class action lawyers
    count on.

    This is simply a matter of business choice. Verizon is free to act in its own
    best interests, just as customers are free to act in their own best interests.
    *****ing about this makes as much sense as *****ing that (say) Starbucks
    coffee isn't terribly good. Don't like the service or product? Then choose
    some other service or product that suits you better.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  5. #5
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <WV%[email protected]> on Tue, 28 Feb 2006
    17:40:06 GMT, "Quick" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >LiRM wrote:


    >> Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other
    >> phone to get this to work, but **** that. If you're a
    >> Verizon customer and *that's* what you're doing to get
    >> parts of your phone working at some point you have to ask
    >> yourself - why the **** am I putting myself through all
    >> this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    >> that forces you to go through that to make your phone
    >> work the way it was designed to in the first place? (In
    >> other words what Moto giveth you, Verizon taketh away.
    >> lol. **** them).

    >
    >Actually Moto taketh away. VZW doesn't do phone
    >software/firmware.


    Technically true, but VZW does control how Moto configures phones that VZW
    sells.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  6. #6
    Dirty-Harry
    Dirty-Harry is offline
    Member
    Dirty-Harry's Avatar

    Cell Phone
    BlackBerry Curve-8330 Silver
    Carrier
    Sprint PCS
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    91 - liked 4 times

    Isn't it true that once they have ya, they don't care that much about ya (until you pay your bill late). They only care about getting more and new customers, and not take care of the customers they have. I'm not talking about Verizon, I'm speaking from a general sense of all the major wireless providers i.e. Sprint, Cingular, Verizon, T-Mobile...

    Am I wrong?



  7. #7
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    LiRM wrote:

    > Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    > the phone to function as a modem.
    >
    > Are they out of their minds?


    Nope.

    > Seriously.


    Nope.

    > They have lost it all together.
    >
    > Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    > why on Earth would they do such a thing?
    >
    > Oh yeah! Money!


    Last I checked, they ARE allowed to make money. And also, Verizon isn't
    the only carrier that prohibits illicit tethering of their devices.
    Pretty all the carriers impose some kind of restriction on tethering for
    data without getting the appropriate price plan. Verizon just happens
    to actually enforce that rule a little more aggressively than most,
    though Sprint is also starting to get on the ball as well. To do it
    "legally," all of the "Big Three" carriers charge the same amount: $60 a
    month on top of your voice plan.

    By the way: I've seen the throughput of EVDO data tethering via
    Bluetooth. Quite frankly, you're not going to get the speed. Bluetooth
    DUN makes EVDO useless, while tethering over a cable is much faster and
    more efficient.

    > They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    > quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    > instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    > done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    > for it now.


    So you're *****ing because Verizon isn't letting you get away with using
    a service without paying for it. Fantastic.

    And I never understood why people wanted to use their minutes for packet
    data. It's the rawest deal in the book, especially considering that
    under such a model, you're billed even if nothing is moving through the
    pipe, but you just happen to have the phone in the mode to receive and
    send data packets. In fact, taht's caused a LOT of problems with the
    new EVDO handsets, in that they love to stay dormant on data, racking up
    the airtime for those still on MOU.

    > And yes, I have done this for 7 years.


    So have I, on Sprint and Cingular. Sprint and Cingular are simply
    dumber about figuring out when you're doing something you're not
    supposed to do.

    > I hate to have to switch carriers - because in all honesty they have
    > excellent coverage - probably the best of all carriers.


    Then it looks like you need to make a choice between awesome coverage,
    and less coverage but with a carrier who is lax about letting you take
    advantage of lax network security. *shrug*


    > Since my
    > phones have been trimode's, I have gotten service in the boonies at
    > times when no one else could.


    By the way, that RAZR you're lusting after isn't tri-mode. Nor are any
    other EVDO-enabled handsets. So if the boonies you speak of only have
    AMPS, you're gonna be SOL with that RAZR. Just giving you fair warning.


    > I wouldn't have minded paying for the service (I will with Cingular -
    > 20 bucks a month for unlimited net usage - sucks, but at least I can
    > do it for Christs'sake).


    Uhh, no you can't. Not without Cingular charging you for the usage, per
    kilobyte.

    The terms of use for Cingular's $20 unlimited Media Net state:

    "MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular reserves
    the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for the use of a
    wireless device as an interface to other devices or networks, as
    determined by Cingular, including but not limited to device tethering."

    Read it for yourself: http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal

    In order to tether, you will need to get the same $60 plan (or actually,
    it may still be $79 with Cingular) that you would have to get with
    Verizon. The two carriers just have different philosophies about
    enforcing this rule: Verizon locks down their phones to prevent it from
    happening without you letting them know first, while Cingular waits for
    you to violate the TOS and then simply sends you a four-figure bill at
    the end of the month, charging you for every kilobyte you used.



    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.



  8. #8
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    kevin weaver wrote:

    >> Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone gets
    >> to fix them. Do the right thing and give back what you stupidly took
    >> away.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> LiRM

    >
    >
    > They won't. You figure the 710 class action would have had some effect.
    > Nope, they don't care.


    Actually the class action only served to give Verizon the opportunity to
    validate their practice. They settled the suit by throwing the
    "affected class" a bone by offering a refund if they jumped through
    enough hoops, paid the lawyers a handsome amount of money, and put
    language into the settlement that allows them to continue do what
    they've been doing, with the appropriate disclaimers attached to the
    marketing materials.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.



  9. #9
    LiRM
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:40:06 GMT, "Quick"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >LiRM wrote:
    >
    >> get a new RAZR for free.

    >
    >> Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile
    >> that allows the phone to function as a modem.

    >
    >> Oh yeah! Money!
    >>
    >> They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they
    >> can get a quarter out of. Like being able to transfer
    >> mp3's. Or pictures. Or instead of just using my minutes
    >> to connect to the net - like I have done literally for
    >> the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass for it
    >> now.

    >
    >There you have it. They *want* you to pay. You have
    >to do that on your own free will. Apparently others are.
    >
    >> And yes, I have done this for 7 years. .

    >
    >> Verizon - if you are here and listening - you are on the
    >> verge of losing a customer that's been one for YEARS.

    >
    >Sounds like you were a big spender.
    >
    >> But to go ahead and completely disable this aspect of a
    >> Bluetooth profile when it's one of the primary reasons
    >> Bluetooth was developed?

    >
    >I'm still reading this over and over... Is this some sort of
    >technology blasphemy? Are you a BT disciple or something?


    Not at all. But name for me, if you can, one viable wireless standard
    that would allow me to connect my PDA (or a laptop) to my phone to
    make a net connection.

    >
    >> I can almost imagine the meeting where this took place -
    >> with some of the people in that meeting realizing just
    >> how ludicrous this is. I can guarantee you that they
    >> must have been looking at the mensa candidate who
    >> came up with this idea as if they had literally lost their mind.

    >
    >He was lucky they didn't throw him to the ground and
    >brand "BT" into his forehead.
    >
    >> I actually had to read the FAQ a couple of times to
    >> believe this myself. In spite of all the insanity that
    >> followed the v710's lawsuit about this very issue. you
    >> guys go ahead and kill this part of the profile anyway?

    >
    >No confusion now. "NO BT modem"
    >
    >> Man, you ****er's are out of your minds. I mean do
    >> whatcha gotta do to make a buck and all, but there must
    >> be guys at Cingular, Sprint, you name it - laughing this
    >> asses off over this - and probably will be for months.

    >
    >Thanks for the heads up. I'll dump my stock right away.
    >
    >> For people like me who probably use their phones more as
    >> a device to connect to the net then they do talk, you are
    >> literally forcing people to walk away.

    >
    >Lets see.... 33+ million and maybe 10K left?


    I know there are bunches of people out there who have jumped on the
    Treo bandwagons, but that doesn't suit me as I don't enjoy doing clown
    tricks like having to talk into my phone while also using a keyboard
    to take notes on my PDA. And believe it or not - there really are
    some of us out here who actually use applications like real web
    browsers, FTP apps, real POP or IMAP mail applications, terminal
    services and other nifty "toy" programs that make carrying around a
    PDA function damn close to what you can do with a laptop.

    But we are, as you say, a dwindling breed. Markets *do* drive where
    technology goes and in this case it's vcast and AOL IM, and so on. Not
    that there is anything wrong with that, but I stand by what I've said.
    In fact, you just reinforced my case. If we *are* such a small
    minority, why remove that aspect of a profile when one can simply
    leave it alone.

    >
    >> This will go down in cellular history as one of the
    >> biggest **** ups ever implemented.

    >
    >Certainly right up there with the savings and loan
    >collapse, Enron, ...
    >
    >> Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other
    >> phone to get this to work, but **** that. If you're a
    >> Verizon customer and *that's* what you're doing to get
    >> parts of your phone working at some point you have to ask
    >> yourself - why the **** am I putting myself through all
    >> this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    >> that forces you to go through that to make your phone
    >> work the way it was designed to in the first place? (In
    >> other words what Moto giveth you, Verizon taketh away.
    >> lol. **** them).

    >
    >Actually Moto taketh away. VZW doesn't do phone
    >software/firmware.


    I didn't say they did, birdbrain. But what they *do* do is dictate to
    Motorola what to leave in and out of these profiles, which is why
    you'll see the same phone with this profile fully intact in the
    Cingular flavor.


    >
    >> Sorry. I just don't get it.

    >
    >You really don't...
    >
    >> I've got 30 days to screw around with this phone from
    >> Cingular. Then it's decision time. Send it back to
    >> Cingular or keep it and make the switch. Maybe Verizon
    >> will shake some marbles loose during this period and
    >> realize what a stupid move this is.

    >
    >Give them some time. I'm sure they have passed your
    >address to the Moto CEO and they're making you a gold
    >plated, custom Razor with every wireless technology
    >currently known to man.


    The points I made are valid, Quick, even if they are a bit emphatic.

    But there were quite a bunch of us at Verizon who got ****ed on the
    v710 as Verizon at that time had disabled other parts of the Bluetooth
    profile that prevented different parts of that profile from working
    fully. They just lost a lawsuit over it.

    But that doesn't make you any less of a dickhead for jumping on my ass
    for what amounts to a still stupid (and greedy) move on Verizon's
    part.

    >
    >> Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not
    >> everyone gets to fix them. Do the right thing and give
    >> back what you stupidly took away.

    >
    >




  10. #10
    LiRM
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:40:48 GMT, John Navas
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >
    >In <1O%[email protected]> on Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:31:42 -0800, "kevin
    >weaver" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>They won't. You figure the 710 class action would have had some effect.
    >>Nope, they don't care.

    >
    >Of course "they" [Verizon] care. "They" know that most customers don't care
    >about this issue as compared to other issues.
    >
    >The class action was silly, and only settled (not adjudicated) because that
    >cost much less than fighting, which is what unscrupulous class action lawyers
    >count on.
    >
    >This is simply a matter of business choice. Verizon is free to act in its own
    >best interests, just as customers are free to act in their own best interests.
    >*****ing about this makes as much sense as *****ing that (say) Starbucks
    >coffee isn't terribly good. Don't like the service or product? Then choose
    >some other service or product that suits you better.


    Which is basically what I'm in process of doing.

    Do they read these newsgroups and give a **** what one person says?

    I don't know. They should. It's one barometer of what their
    customers think.

    *I* read these newsgroups, as do thousands of others to learn and in
    this case to get a feel for what's going on "on the other side" as
    well as to express my particular frustrations.

    I also enjoy the feedback. Hearing other peoples perspectives can be
    enlightening.

    Regards,

    LiRM



  11. #11
    LiRM
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:31:42 -0800, "kevin weaver"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"LiRM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> I've been on Verizon a long time. I went to check to update my phone
    >> the other day and found I was eligible to get a new RAZR for free.
    >>
    >> That was the good news.
    >>
    >> Having been fooled before (getting a v710 only to find OBEX not
    >> enabled), I went to the Bluetooth FAQ only to find they have - get
    >> this - disabled ALL parts of the Bluetooth profile that has allowed me
    >> in the past to pair with Palm Zire to use the phone as a modem.
    >>
    >> I couldn't believe what I was reading.
    >>
    >> I called in to verify this with a few different support reps and they
    >> confirmed it.
    >>
    >> Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    >> the phone to function as a modem.
    >>
    >> Are they out of their minds?
    >>
    >> Seriously.
    >>
    >> They have lost it all together.
    >>
    >> Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    >> why on Earth would they do such a thing?
    >>
    >> Oh yeah! Money!
    >>
    >> They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    >> quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    >> instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    >> done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    >> for it now.
    >>
    >> And yes, I have done this for 7 years. My first device that this
    >> worked with a Visor Deluxe. Granted, it required a cable, but it
    >> worked.
    >>
    >> I hate to have to switch carriers - because in all honesty they have
    >> excellent coverage - probably the best of all carriers. Since my
    >> phones have been trimode's, I have gotten service in the boonies at
    >> times when no one else could. No drop offs. At this - they are
    >> excellent at. Give credit where credit is due.
    >>
    >> Alas, I have an order in for a RAZR from Cingular whilst we speak -
    >> which has the entire Bluetooth profile enabled.
    >>
    >> Verizon - if you are here and listening - you are on the verge of
    >> losing a customer that's been one for YEARS. Since you took over
    >> whoever you took over to begin with when you first started. Been with
    >> you guys since day 1.
    >>
    >> I wouldn't have minded paying for the service (I will with Cingular -
    >> 20 bucks a month for unlimited net usage - sucks, but at least I can
    >> do it for Christs'sake).
    >>
    >> But to go ahead and completely disable this aspect of a Bluetooth
    >> profile when it's one of the primary reasons Bluetooth was developed?
    >>
    >> I can almost imagine the meeting where this took place - with some of
    >> the people in that meeting realizing just how ludicrous this is. I
    >> can guarantee you that they must have been looking at the mensa
    >> candidate who came up with this idea as if they had literally lost
    >> their mind.
    >>
    >> I actually had to read the FAQ a couple of times to believe this
    >> myself. In spite of all the insanity that followed the v710's lawsuit
    >> about this very issue. you guys go ahead and kill this part of the
    >> profile anyway?
    >>
    >> Man, you ****er's are out of your minds. I mean do whatcha gotta do
    >> to make a buck and all, but there must be guys at Cingular, Sprint,
    >> you name it - laughing this asses off over this - and probably will be
    >> for months.
    >>
    >> For people like me who probably use their phones more as a device to
    >> connect to the net then they do talk, you are literally forcing people
    >> to walk away.
    >>
    >> This will go down in cellular history as one of the biggest **** ups
    >> ever implemented.
    >>
    >> Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other phone to get
    >> this to work, but **** that. If you're a Verizon customer and
    >> *that's* what you're doing to get parts of your phone working at some
    >> point you have to ask yourself - why the **** am I putting myself
    >> through all this **** - for what - just to keep a company in business
    >> that forces you to go through that to make your phone work the way it
    >> was designed to in the first place? (In other words what Moto giveth
    >> you, Verizon taketh away. lol. **** them).
    >>
    >> Sorry. I just don't get it.
    >>
    >> I've got 30 days to screw around with this phone from Cingular. Then
    >> it's decision time. Send it back to Cingular or keep it and make the
    >> switch. Maybe Verizon will shake some marbles loose during this
    >> period and realize what a stupid move this is.
    >>
    >> Pssst. Hey. Verizon. Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone gets
    >> to fix them. Do the right thing and give back what you stupidly took
    >> away.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> LiRM

    >
    >
    >They won't. You figure the 710 class action would have had some effect.
    >Nope, they don't care.
    >
    >

    It apparantly had the opposite effect. Go figure.

    But they sure made it clear in the FAQ what would work and what
    wouldn't




  12. #12
    Quick
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    John Navas wrote:
    > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >
    > In <WV%[email protected]> on
    > Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:40:06 GMT, "Quick"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> LiRM wrote:

    >
    >>> Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other
    >>> phone to get this to work, but **** that. If you're a
    >>> Verizon customer and *that's* what you're doing to get
    >>> parts of your phone working at some point you have to
    >>> ask yourself - why the **** am I putting myself through
    >>> all this **** - for what - just to keep a company in
    >>> business that forces you to go through that to make
    >>> your phone work the way it was designed to in the first
    >>> place? (In other words what Moto giveth you, Verizon
    >>> taketh away. lol. **** them).

    >>
    >> Actually Moto taketh away. VZW doesn't do phone
    >> software/firmware.

    >
    > Technically true, but VZW does control how Moto
    > configures phones that VZW sells.


    Yes. I just find it funny/bizarre how people feel that
    something has been stolen from them. VZW is (at
    least for now) one of the few/only carriers that will
    activate phones not purchased through them. The
    OP feels that he as been cheated somehow because
    hardware capabilities have been disabled/aren't
    supported in sofware on a subsidized/free Razor.
    I imagine these are available directly (or will be soon)
    from Moto with some other carrier's image or a generic
    one?

    -Quick





  13. #13
    Michael Wise
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    In article <[email protected]>,
    LiRM <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I've been on Verizon a long time. I went to check to update my phone
    > the other day and found I was eligible to get a new RAZR for free.
    >
    > That was the good news.
    >
    > Having been fooled before (getting a v710 only to find OBEX not
    > enabled), I went to the Bluetooth FAQ only to find they have - get
    > this - disabled ALL parts of the Bluetooth profile that has allowed me
    > in the past to pair with Palm Zire to use the phone as a modem.
    >
    > I couldn't believe what I was reading.
    >
    > I called in to verify this with a few different support reps and they
    > confirmed it.
    >
    > Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    > the phone to function as a modem.
    >
    > Are they out of their minds?
    >
    > Seriously.
    >
    > They have lost it all together.
    >
    > Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    > why on Earth would they do such a thing?
    >
    > Oh yeah! Money!
    >
    > They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    > quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    > instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    > done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    > for it now.
    >
    > And yes, I have done this for 7 years. My first device that this
    > worked with a Visor Deluxe. Granted, it required a cable, but it
    > worked.



    That pretty much sums it up.

    I've been doing the data over cellular thing for just over ten years now
    with my Palm devices as well as Mac and PC laptops; first with the then
    SF Bay Area A-side carrier (C1 which is now absorbed into ATTWS [which I
    guess is now part of Cingular making it even ****tier than it was
    before]) and then and still the SF Bay Area B-side carrier (GTE Wireless
    which merged into the VZW phoenix).

    Sure its slow, but for email it works just fine and I'm just using cell
    minutes. The problem is every swinging dick has a cell phone now and
    non-techie consumers are finally aware that having Internet access is a
    good thing. The SMS we've been using for decades is now "texting" and
    its now expected that we should be glad to pay extra for it...despite
    the fact that it doesn't cost them extra. Obviously, the cell carriers
    (especially VZW) know that as well...and realize its something they can
    make serious money off of.

    People using the QNC method with VZW do not help VZW realize the cash
    windfall they're reaping in. Why do you think VZW won't sell a trimode
    smart phone anymore? Because doing so allows people to use QNC and VZW
    gets no EXTRA money. I say extra, because these minutes we're using
    aren't free: we're paying for them. Never the less, new users are now
    forced to buy a digital-only (translation: inferior) smart phone and pay
    extra for a data plan. On top of that and as we all know; VZW has many
    features on their phones crippled...so that the user is forced to add
    some extra paid VZW feature just to get the capabilities the phone was
    originally engineered to have.


    Of course, it is within their legal right to do so. Corporate greed is
    the American way. They can only get away with it because they can always
    tout their warned holy grail of having the best overall (in terms of
    coverage) network. When you are the king of the hill; you get to make
    the rules. What else can you do? Go to a ****ty carrier like Cingular
    and not get coverage in anything close to the amount of places as VZW?
    As long as VZW remains king of the coverage hill, they're going to keep
    getting away with such practices.


    We may not like it, but that's good ol' legal American corporate greed
    in action.



    --Mike



  14. #14
    Michael Wise
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Quick" <[email protected]> wrote:


    > >
    > >> LiRM wrote:

    > >
    > >>> Yeah, I know I can probably pull a seem off some other
    > >>> phone to get this to work, but **** that. If you're a
    > >>> Verizon customer and *that's* what you're doing to get
    > >>> parts of your phone working at some point you have to
    > >>> ask yourself - why the **** am I putting myself through
    > >>> all this **** - for what - just to keep a company in
    > >>> business that forces you to go through that to make
    > >>> your phone work the way it was designed to in the first
    > >>> place? (In other words what Moto giveth you, Verizon
    > >>> taketh away. lol. **** them).
    > >>
    > >> Actually Moto taketh away. VZW doesn't do phone
    > >> software/firmware.

    > >
    > > Technically true, but VZW does control how Moto
    > > configures phones that VZW sells.

    >
    > Yes. I just find it funny/bizarre how people feel that
    > something has been stolen from them. VZW is (at
    > least for now) one of the few/only carriers that will
    > activate phones not purchased through them. The
    > OP feels that he as been cheated somehow because
    > hardware capabilities have been disabled/aren't
    > supported in sofware on a subsidized/free Razor.



    It really isn't "free" or "subsidized" in the end as the subscriber is
    forced into a long contract which more than pays for the phone several
    times over. That and the fact that most of these phone are made by cheap
    Chinese labor and don't people like Motorola anything close to what they
    claim to be "full price" or even "subsidized" price.


    It's not unreasonable to expect that when one pays for a phone...whether
    its full price directly or subsidized initially, but more than full
    price over time, that they get the features that phone is supposed to
    have w/o having to pay extra.



    --Mike



  15. #15
    Michael Wise
    Guest

    Re: I can't believe this - has Verizon lost its mind?

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

    > LiRM wrote:
    >
    > > Verizon has disabled the parts of the Bluetooth profile that allows
    > > the phone to function as a modem.
    > >
    > > Are they out of their minds?

    >
    > Nope.
    >
    > > Seriously.

    >
    > Nope.
    >
    > > They have lost it all together.
    > >
    > > Granted, I may be part of minority that wants to do such a thing, but
    > > why on Earth would they do such a thing?
    > >
    > > Oh yeah! Money!

    >
    > Last I checked, they ARE allowed to make money. And also, Verizon isn't
    > the only carrier that prohibits illicit tethering of their devices.


    > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illicit
    >
    > illicit
    > adj.
    >
    > 1) Not sanctioned by custom or law; unlawful.



    Please direct us interested readers to the relevant section of VZW's
    regulations which deem the tethering of devices (such as PDA's and cell
    phones) to your VZW cell phone as "illicit."



    > Pretty all the carriers impose some kind of restriction on tethering for
    > data without getting the appropriate price plan.



    Price plan has nothing to do with it. Data over cellular has been around
    for over a decade. With VZW (and with at least one of the Borg'd
    carriers which gave rise to VZW (GTE Wireless), it has never been free
    and has always (and still does) count as cell minutes used.


    I'm still doing it with VZW. Are my actions "illicit"? Should I hold my
    breath waiting for you to submit any credible evidence that they
    are...or for that matter, that you ever have anything to say about
    cellular which isn't almost completely based on your opinion only (as
    opposed to the facts)?



    > Verizon just happens
    > to actually enforce that rule a little more aggressively than most,


    Which "rule" is that? Verifiable citation please.

    > though Sprint is also starting to get on the ball as well. To do it
    > "legally," all of the "Big Three" carriers charge the same amount: $60 a
    > month on top of your voice plan.


    Yes, to use their high-speed data plans. VZW has no extra charge to use
    their slow (slower than 14.4k) QNC method and never has. It isn't free
    though, as you use up cell minutes when on it.


    > > They want people to pay for every goddamn thing that they can get a
    > > quarter out of. Like being able to transfer mp3's. Or pictures. Or
    > > instead of just using my minutes to connect to the net - like I have
    > > done literally for the better part of almost 7 years - pay out my ass
    > > for it now.

    >
    > So you're *****ing because Verizon isn't letting you get away with using
    > a service without paying for it. Fantastic.



    When there is not now nor has ever been an extra charge for that
    slower-speed data service and VZW is merely having phone manufacturers
    cripple the phones they sell to VZW so that they cannot use that
    service...thereby forcing them into some $50-60 extra data plan to have
    Internet access from cellular....yes, there is reason to *****.


    > And I never understood why people wanted to use their minutes for packet
    > data.


    Low bandwidth applications like email while out and about.


    > It's the rawest deal in the book, especially considering that
    > under such a model, you're billed even if nothing is moving through the
    > pipe, but you just happen to have the phone in the mode to receive and
    > send data packets.



    ??? Golly gee whiz, Wally...I thought most dial-up type connections
    methods (of which VZW's QNC method is) have the capability of being
    initiated and broken down manually???

    It's just like using a modem, and if the user is too stupid to know what
    connect/disconnect mean, then they should go get themselves an AOL
    account and a cell phone with ****ty ring tones nobody wants to hear.


    > > And yes, I have done this for 7 years.

    >
    > So have I, on Sprint and Cingular. Sprint and Cingular are simply
    > dumber about figuring out when you're doing something you're not
    > supposed to do.



    No, its just that Sprint and Cingular can't afford to alienate customers
    when they have cell networks which are inferior (in the way that matter
    most: coverage area) to VZW's.


    >
    > > I hate to have to switch carriers - because in all honesty they have
    > > excellent coverage - probably the best of all carriers.

    >
    > Then it looks like you need to make a choice between awesome coverage,
    > and less coverage but with a carrier who is lax about letting you take
    > advantage of lax network security. *shrug*



    What does security have to do with this? Are you sure you work for
    Cisco? What do you do? Work in the mail room or something?


    > ...
    > Read it for yourself: http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal
    >
    > In order to tether, you will need to get the same $60 plan (or actually,
    > it may still be $79 with Cingular) that you would have to get with
    > Verizon.



    Good, I guess this does mean you're prepared to show us verifiable
    evidence that VZW charges any fee for "tethering" devices. Let's see it.


    > The two carriers just have different philosophies about
    > enforcing this rule:...


    A "rule" which with respect to VZW...you just made up...just like pretty
    much everything else you've had to say about VZW in the last few days.

    Stick with the facts, please.



    --Mike



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