Forced march of all ATTWS to Cingular?

On 04/19/2006 11:24, David Trotter wrote:
>
> ... recent
> letter I received from Cingular.
>
> In short, it states:
>
> - My contract with Cingular has ended (this is regarding an ATTWS
> phone I've had for 2 years or so)
> - Unless I select a Cingular Nation plan and activate a new phone
> (Nokia 6030) they just sent me, my service will be canceled by the end
> of the month
> - I must select a plan with a 2 year service agreement
>
> I conclude this is a forced march of all old ATTWS customers to new 2
> year contracts, and I would prefer to not do that. Short of changing
> carriers, what options do you suggest?

It would be helpful to have the exact language of the letter. Were you on
"TDMA" (D-AMPS) or GSM? I haven't heard of any general program like this, so
my guess is that this is specific to your particular circumstances (e.g.,
area), although it's possible that this is the start of a more general
program. In any event you should be able to opt for a one-year plan if you're
willing to pay more (typically $50 more) for the phone.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

---

› See More: Forced march of all ATTWS to Cingular?

The current phone is on a TDMA network, and my account is established in
Charlotte, NC.
The exact language of the letter follows:

"Your contract with Cingular has ended. Unless you take immediate action,
we will no longer be able to provide you with wireless service for your
current device and calling plan."

"To avoid cancellation, you must call us to select a current Cingular Nation
plan and activate the enclosed complimentary Nokia 6030. If you do not
select a new calling plan and activate this device, your Cingular services
will be cancelled by April 30, 2006."

" Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge your
phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."

"We apologize for any inconvenience and urge you to call 877-210-9521
(select option 3) today to avoid service cancellation."

"Sincerely,
John Ventura, Director of Marketing"

The Nokia 6030 seems to be a basic phone, and not worth a 2 year service
agreement.

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 04/19/2006 11:24, David Trotter wrote:
> >
> > ... recent
> > letter I received from Cingular.
> >
> > In short, it states:
> >
> > - My contract with Cingular has ended (this is regarding an ATTWS
> > phone I've had for 2 years or so)
> > - Unless I select a Cingular Nation plan and activate a new phone
> > (Nokia 6030) they just sent me, my service will be canceled by the end
> > of the month
> > - I must select a plan with a 2 year service agreement
> >
> > I conclude this is a forced march of all old ATTWS customers to new 2
> > year contracts, and I would prefer to not do that. Short of changing
> > carriers, what options do you suggest?
>
> It would be helpful to have the exact language of the letter. Were you on
> "TDMA" (D-AMPS) or GSM? I haven't heard of any general program like this,
so
> my guess is that this is specific to your particular circumstances (e.g.,
> area), although it's possible that this is the start of a more general
> program. In any event you should be able to opt for a one-year plan if
you're
> willing to pay more (typically $50 more) for the phone.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

David Trotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
> Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
> agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge your
> phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."

Did you actually get a phone in the mail, with this letter?
That would be a pretty bold risk.

If not, I suspect that the 877 number has nothing at all to do with
Cingular, and is an agent that would like to sell you service.

I tried calling the number from California, and got a fast busy.
A former AT&T customer should have been directed to 800-888-7600.
Have you tried calling the number?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:25:49 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] wrote:

>David Trotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
>> Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
>> agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge your
>> phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."
>
>Did you actually get a phone in the mail, with this letter?
>That would be a pretty bold risk.
>
>If not, I suspect that the 877 number has nothing at all to do with
>Cingular, and is an agent that would like to sell you service.
>
>I tried calling the number from California, and got a fast busy.
>A former AT&T customer should have been directed to 800-888-7600.
>Have you tried calling the number?

I agree, right down the line.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

>> >
>> > I conclude this is a forced march of all old ATTWS customers to new 2
>> > year contracts, and I would prefer to not do that. Short of changing
>> > carriers, what options do you suggest?
>>
>>

If this letter really came from Cingular, and not just an agent, it marks
the beginning of a new chapter of abuse of former ATTWS customers. This is
the first time I've heard of Cingular canceling a TDMA customer in good
standing, while still keeping the TDMA service turned on.

Perhaps they crunched the numbers and concluded that, even after factoring
in the losses from ATTWS customers that walked away, they would still come
out ahead with 2-year contracts and their accompanying higher monthly
revenue from those customers that conceded to Cingular's demands.

You need to phone Cingular and demand clarification--Are they telling you
that you have NO RECOURSE but to accept a two-year contract or lose your
service completely, or was this just an "offer" to "upgrade?"

If you are not happy with their response, I urge you not to be bullied. If
another carrier can provide service in the places you require, then consider
switching, and porting your number away from Cingular.

In my particular case I went to Sprint after becoming frustrated with
dropped calls and no service on my old TDMA plan. Sprint's call quality
turned out to be much better than Cingular's TDMA service, and they gave me
free phones, no activation charges and free roaming. I could not be
happier. I regret only that I put up with the crappy service cutbacks from
Cingular for over a year, before I finally made up my mind to give them the
boot.

There IS life after Cingular. And the competition will continue building
out their own networks, until Cingular's perceived advantage will be
completely gone.

I'd tell 'em to stick their cheapo phone where the sun don't shine!

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <o4A1g.11187$MU4.10603@trnddc03> on Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:53:56 GMT, "Jeremy"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> > I conclude this is a forced march of all old ATTWS customers to new 2
>>> > year contracts, and I would prefer to not do that. Short of changing
>>> > carriers, what options do you suggest?

>If this letter really came from Cingular, and not just an agent, it marks
>the beginning of a new chapter of abuse of former ATTWS customers.

Why not find out first, before ranting. It looks like a spoof.

>There IS life after Cingular. ...

Had us fooled.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Minor transposition mistake in my earlier note: the phone number Cingular
asked me to call is 877-201-9521 (select option 3).

And, I did get an unrequested Nokia 6030 in the mail about the same time the
letter arrived.

I did call Cingular on a different matter, mentioned this situation and was
routed to a customer service agent who told me I had to select a 2 year
plan - no options. Still trying to decide whether to escalate this or leave
for a different carrier.


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Trotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
> > Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
> > agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge
your
> > phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."
>
> Did you actually get a phone in the mail, with this letter?
> That would be a pretty bold risk.
>
> If not, I suspect that the 877 number has nothing at all to do with
> Cingular, and is an agent that would like to sell you service.
>
> I tried calling the number from California, and got a fast busy.
> A former AT&T customer should have been directed to 800-888-7600.
> Have you tried calling the number?
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

"Jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news4A1g.11187$MU4.10603@trnddc03...
>>> >
>>> > I conclude this is a forced march of all old ATTWS customers to new 2
>>> > year contracts, and I would prefer to not do that. Short of changing
>>> > carriers, what options do you suggest?
>>>
>>>
>
> If this letter really came from Cingular, and not just an agent, it marks
> the beginning of a new chapter of abuse of former ATTWS customers. This
> is the first time I've heard of Cingular canceling a TDMA customer in good
> standing, while still keeping the TDMA service turned on.
>
> Perhaps they crunched the numbers and concluded that, even after factoring
> in the losses from ATTWS customers that walked away, they would still come
> out ahead with 2-year contracts and their accompanying higher monthly
> revenue from those customers that conceded to Cingular's demands.
>
> You need to phone Cingular and demand clarification--Are they telling you
> that you have NO RECOURSE but to accept a two-year contract or lose your
> service completely, or was this just an "offer" to "upgrade?"
>
> If you are not happy with their response, I urge you not to be bullied.
> If another carrier can provide service in the places you require, then
> consider switching, and porting your number away from Cingular.
>
> In my particular case I went to Sprint after becoming frustrated with
> dropped calls and no service on my old TDMA plan. Sprint's call quality
> turned out to be much better than Cingular's TDMA service, and they gave
> me free phones, no activation charges and free roaming. I could not be
> happier. I regret only that I put up with the crappy service cutbacks
> from Cingular for over a year, before I finally made up my mind to give
> them the boot.
>
> There IS life after Cingular.

Not for you, you're still here!!
...
bamp

>
>
>
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]


You *only* have to select a two-year option, rather than a one-year option, if
you take the *lowest* (subsidized) price on the phone.


In <[email protected]> on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:26:05
GMT, "David Trotter" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Minor transposition mistake in my earlier note: the phone number Cingular
>asked me to call is 877-201-9521 (select option 3).
>
>And, I did get an unrequested Nokia 6030 in the mail about the same time the
>letter arrived.
>
>I did call Cingular on a different matter, mentioned this situation and was
>routed to a customer service agent who told me I had to select a 2 year
>plan - no options. Still trying to decide whether to escalate this or leave
>for a different carrier.
>
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> David Trotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
>> > Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
>> > agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge
>your
>> > phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."
>>
>> Did you actually get a phone in the mail, with this letter?
>> That would be a pretty bold risk.
>>
>> If not, I suspect that the 877 number has nothing at all to do with
>> Cingular, and is an agent that would like to sell you service.
>>
>> I tried calling the number from California, and got a fast busy.
>> A former AT&T customer should have been directed to 800-888-7600.
>> Have you tried calling the number?
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

"Jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news4A1g.11187$MU4.10603@trnddc03...
>>> >
(Usual tirade snipped)

Get a life, man!

Mark

"David Trotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Minor transposition mistake in my earlier note: the phone number Cingular
> asked me to call is 877-201-9521 (select option 3).
>
> And, I did get an unrequested Nokia 6030 in the mail about the same time
> the
> letter arrived.
>
> I did call Cingular on a different matter, mentioned this situation and
> was
> routed to a customer service agent who told me I had to select a 2 year
> plan - no options. Still trying to decide whether to escalate this or
> leave
> for a different carrier.
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> David Trotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your new
>> > Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year service
>> > agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you to charge
> your
>> > phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."
>>
>> Did you actually get a phone in the mail, with this letter?
>> That would be a pretty bold risk.
>>
>> If not, I suspect that the 877 number has nothing at all to do with
>> Cingular, and is an agent that would like to sell you service.
>>
>> I tried calling the number from California, and got a fast busy.
>> A former AT&T customer should have been directed to 800-888-7600.
>> Have you tried calling the number?
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>
>

Well, now that you know for certain that this is the policy, you must decide
whether to let them arm-twist you or not. If other carriers' networks can
handle your requirements, you may have options to leave.

One wonders what tactic Cingular will employ in another two years, to keep
you captive . . .

I regret only that I didn't get out of Cingular a lot sooner than I did. I
know of no other carrier that had displayed such a contemptuous attitude
toward their customers.

David Trotter wrote:
> The current phone is on a TDMA network, and my account is established
> in Charlotte, NC.
> The exact language of the letter follows:
>
> "Your contract with Cingular has ended. Unless you take immediate
> action, we will no longer be able to provide you with wireless
> service for your current device and calling plan."
>
> "To avoid cancellation, you must call us to select a current Cingular
> Nation plan and activate the enclosed complimentary Nokia 6030. If
> you do not select a new calling plan and activate this device, your
> Cingular services will be cancelled by April 30, 2006."
>
> " Please call 877-210-9521 (select option 3) today to activate your
> new Nokia 6030 and select any Cingular Nation plan with a two-year
> service agreement. To avoid service interruption, we encourage you
> to charge your phone 8-10 hours prior to calling."
>
> "We apologize for any inconvenience and urge you to call 877-210-9521
> (select option 3) today to avoid service cancellation."
>
> "Sincerely,
> John Ventura, Director of Marketing"
>
> The Nokia 6030 seems to be a basic phone, and not worth a 2 year
> service agreement.
>

it may be, but it does everything I need, I have had one for 6 weeks

In article <o4A1g.11187$MU4.10603@trnddc03>, [email protected] says...
>
> If this letter really came from Cingular, and not just an agent, it marks
> the beginning of a new chapter of abuse of former ATTWS customers. This is
> the first time I've heard of Cingular canceling a TDMA customer in good
> standing, while still keeping the TDMA service turned on.
>
No "canceling" involved if the original ATT contract had run out -- just
not automatically converting to month-to-month like they do Cingular
customers. Cingular has no legal obligation to renew or extend the ATT
contract. Actually this doesn't surprise me at all--how else are they
going to get the ATT folks to convert to Cingular when they have lower--
as in cripling low to ATT--rates than current C plans?

It also wouldn't surprise me if they started doing this to Cingular's
TDMA customers as well when the TDMA contracts expire--all they've got
to do is just stop converting them to M2M.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

"Jud Hardcastle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> Cingular has no legal obligation to renew or extend the ATT
> contract.

Not so. ATTWS contracts automatically converted to month-to-month after
their initial term expired, and AT&T always allowed customers to remain on
their original payment terms for as long as they kept paying the monthly
charges. I have never heard of a single instance where a customer was sent
a letter saying that they would be cancelled simply by virtue of the
contract term ending.

You're probably going to say that Cingular was not obligated beyond the
terms of the ATTWS contract. Let me quote from some promotional material
they sent to me at the time of the merger:

1: "In some cases, you may want to select new equipment and calling plans.
But if you're happy with your service as it is, you don't need to do
anything." Signed by Stan Sigman, President and CEO of Cingular wireless.

2: "Here's the best part of the deal: Whether you're a Cingular or an AT&T
Wireless customer, your service will continue as it is . . . unless you
decide you want to make a change."

3: "Your service agreement will remain the same. You don't have to change
anything unless you'd like to switch to a new Cingular plan that gives you
access to all of Cingular's services, including Rollover Minutes."

4: "We view every day as a new opportunity to renew the trust of our 46
million customers."


> Actually this doesn't surprise me at all--how else are they
> going to get the ATT folks to convert to Cingular when they have lower--
> as in cripling low to ATT--rates than current C plans?


Because they promised us IN WRITING that we would change ONLY IF WE WANTED
TO. They have not decommissioned TDMA, but they are refusing to allow the
OP to continue using the service, even though it is still available.


>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if they started doing this to Cingular's
> TDMA customers as well when the TDMA contracts expire--all they've got
> to do is just stop converting them to M2M.
> --


Let 's be clear on this point: Cingular has the right to decommission TDMA.
ATTWS probably would have done so if they hadn't sold out.

But that is not the point. Cingular has reneged on their promise to ATTWS
customers not to make them switch--and the OP is about to have his service
cut off, EVEN THOUGH CINGULAR STILL OPERATES TDMA TOWERS.

In addition, he is being pressured into signing a TWO-YEAR TERM--as though
he were a brand new customer, rather than one that has been on the books for
years!

If that is the way that Cingular "renews the trust" of their customers, I'm
glad I'm not one of their customers any more.

Cingular is using the network upgrade as a smokescreen to take back the
various perks that loyal ATTWS customers had earned during their years of
service. They are mean-spirited, unethical bastards. If you doubt that,
re-read the quotations above. I did not make this stuff up.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <ItS1g.2304$gt.1723@trnddc04> on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:49:44 GMT, "Jeremy"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Jud Hardcastle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Cingular has no legal obligation to renew or extend the ATT
>> contract.
>
>Not so.

Wrong.

>ATTWS contracts automatically converted to month-to-month after
>their initial term expired, and AT&T always allowed customers to remain on
>their original payment terms for as long as they kept paying the monthly
>charges.

ATTWS no longer exists, in large part due to mismanagement, and had no
obligation to keep that practice in any event.

>I have never heard of a single instance where a customer was sent
>a letter saying that they would be cancelled simply by virtue of the
>contract term ending.

Not canceled -- the contract has expired.

>You're probably going to say that Cingular was not obligated beyond the
>terms of the ATTWS contract.

You're right, because it isn't.

>Let me quote from some promotional material
>they sent to me at the time of the merger:
>
>1: "In some cases, you may want to select new equipment and calling plans.
>But if you're happy with your service as it is, you don't need to do
>anything." Signed by Stan Sigman, President and CEO of Cingular wireless.

That was in fact honored.

>2: "Here's the best part of the deal: Whether you're a Cingular or an AT&T
>Wireless customer, your service will continue as it is . . . unless you
>decide you want to make a change."

That was in fact honored.

>3: "Your service agreement will remain the same. You don't have to change
>anything unless you'd like to switch to a new Cingular plan that gives you
>access to all of Cingular's services, including Rollover Minutes."

That was in fact honored.

>4: "We view every day as a new opportunity to renew the trust of our 46
>million customers."

Sure.

>> Actually this doesn't surprise me at all--how else are they
>> going to get the ATT folks to convert to Cingular when they have lower--
>> as in cripling low to ATT--rates than current C plans?
>
>Because they promised us IN WRITING that we would change ONLY IF WE WANTED
>TO.

Nope. You were only promised that your contract would be honored, which it
was. There was no promise to give you the same deal forever.

>They have not decommissioned TDMA, but they are refusing to allow the
>OP to continue using the service, even though it is still available.

It's not still available -- it's no longer offered.

>> It also wouldn't surprise me if they started doing this to Cingular's
>> TDMA customers as well when the TDMA contracts expire--all they've got
>> to do is just stop converting them to M2M.

>Let 's be clear on this point: Cingular has the right to decommission TDMA.

I'm sure Cingular will appreciate your approval.

>ATTWS probably would have done so if they hadn't sold out.

ATTWS was already doing so.

>But that is not the point. Cingular has reneged on their promise to ATTWS
>customers not to make them switch--

Nope.

>and the OP is about to have his service
>cut off, EVEN THOUGH CINGULAR STILL OPERATES TDMA TOWERS.

Sure, because the OP's contract expired, and "TDMA" (D-AMPS) is being phased
out rapidly. Cingular is no longer in the "TDMA" business.

>In addition, he is being pressured into signing a TWO-YEAR TERM--as though
>he were a brand new customer, rather than one that has been on the books for
>years!

Sure, if he wants the best deal on the needed new hardware. But he's still
free to opt for a one year term if he's willing to pay a higher price.

>If that is the way that Cingular "renews the trust" of their customers, I'm
>glad I'm not one of their customers any more.

You're made that abundantly clear, so you (and SMS) can now move on.

>Cingular is using the network upgrade as a smokescreen to take back the
>various perks that loyal ATTWS customers had earned during their years of
>service.

They hadn't "earned" any such thing.

>They are mean-spirited, unethical bastards.

You're a wildly unrealistic and childish bastard.

>If you doubt that,
>re-read the quotations above. I did not make this stuff up.

In fact you do.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>