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  1. #1
    SMS
    Guest
    "http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"

    Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    wireless carrier ads.

    Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    conclusion."

    Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    network, whatever the heck that means.

    Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.



    See More: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It




  2. #2
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <[email protected]> on Tue, 02 May 2006 22:34:51
    -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"
    >
    >Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    > wireless carrier ads.
    >
    >Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    >that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    >the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    >thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    >conclusion."
    >
    >Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    >network, whatever the heck that means.
    >
    >Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    >issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    >battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.


    Part of what you (not surprisingly) snipped in your pro-Verizon spin:

    Some research even suggests that network quality may be less of an
    issue than companies and even consumers think it is. In the 50
    largest markets nationwide, more than 97 percent of wireless calls
    are connected and completed successfully, according to Telephia. More
    than one-third of the wireless subscribers surveyed by Telephia also
    said their network quality had improved since they signed up with
    their current provider, while only 13 percent said it had declined.

    The consumers who really value network quality, Mr. Chamberlain and
    others say, are those who use a cellphone as their only phone and
    those who rely on their phones for work. Many other consumers,
    particularly younger ones, are more likely to choose a carrier based
    on the handset, not the quality of the network, they said.

    "Honestly, these ads don't make a dent," said Meredith Belloli, the
    president of Slant, a marketing agency that focuses on consumers in
    their 20's. Young consumers "are aware of the 'Can you hear me now?'
    guy, but it comes down to the style and coolness of the phones."

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  3. #3
    Jos. Wheeler
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    "Honestly, these ads don't make a dent," said Meredith Belloli, the
    > president of Slant, a marketing agency that focuses on consumers in
    > their 20's. Young consumers "are aware of the 'Can you hear me now?'
    > guy, but it comes down to the style and coolness of the phones."
    >


    Not surprising in a demographic cohort where a third to a half of them can't
    identify Louisiana, Mississippi, India, Israel or Iraq on a map.

    But ah yes, our wonderful government schools continue to insure their high
    self-esteem and keep them free of being offended by accurate, descriptive
    though non-politically correct speech.....

    Jos.





  4. #4

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    John Navas wrote:

    > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >
    > In <[email protected]> on Tue, 02 May 2006 22:34:51
    > -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"
    > >
    > >Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    > > wireless carrier ads.
    > >
    > >Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    > >that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    > >the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    > >thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    > >conclusion."
    > >
    > >Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    > >network, whatever the heck that means.
    > >
    > >Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    > >issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    > >battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.

    >
    > Part of what you (not surprisingly) snipped in your pro-Verizon spin:
    >


    Rest snipped because John did not read the article. How do I know? Because
    the paragraph above the negative line is a direct quote from the article the
    OP cited.

    Suggest all read the article. Yes you have to register to see it, but
    registration is free and you will not get spammed.

    Lou
    Education is about knowing where to look for answers.





  5. #5

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    SMS wrote:

    > "http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"
    >
    > Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    > wireless carrier ads.
    >
    > Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    > that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    > the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    > thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    > conclusion."
    >
    > Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    > network, whatever the heck that means.
    >
    > Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    > issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    > battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.


    Last three paragraphs are probably the best

    "Some research even suggests that network quality may be less of an issue
    than companies and even consumers think it is. In the 50 largest markets
    nationwide, more than 97 percent of wireless calls are connected and
    completed successfully, according to Telephia. More than one-third of the
    wireless subscribers surveyed by Telephia also said their network quality
    had improved since they signed up with their current provider, while only 13
    percent said it had declined.

    The consumers who really value network quality, Mr. Chamberlain and others
    say, are those who use a cellphone as their only phone and those who rely on
    their phones for work. Many other consumers, particularly younger ones, are
    more likely to choose a carrier based on the handset, not the quality of the
    network, they said.

    "Honestly, these ads don't make a dent," said Meredith Belloli, the
    president of Slant, a marketing agency that focuses on consumers in their
    20's. Young consumers "are aware of the 'Can you hear me now?' guy, but it
    comes down to the style and coolness of the phones." "

    Lou





  6. #6
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    Jos. Wheeler wrote:

    > But ah yes, our wonderful government schools continue to insure their high
    > self-esteem


    ensure, not insure.



  7. #7
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [email protected]lid wrote:

    > Rest snipped because John did not read the article. How do I know? Because
    > the paragraph above the negative line is a direct quote from the article the
    > OP cited.
    >
    > Suggest all read the article. Yes you have to register to see it, but
    > registration is free and you will not get spammed.


    When I read it, no registration was required, but the NYT web site
    sometimes does require registration.

    Use "http://bugmenot.com/" to avoid the hassle of registration.



  8. #8
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <[email protected]> on Wed, 03 May 2006 12:50:40 GMT,
    [email protected]lid wrote:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >
    >> In <[email protected]> on Tue, 02 May 2006 22:34:51
    >> -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"
    >> >
    >> >Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    >> > wireless carrier ads.
    >> >
    >> >Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    >> >that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    >> >the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    >> >thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    >> >conclusion."
    >> >
    >> >Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    >> >network, whatever the heck that means.
    >> >
    >> >Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    >> >issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    >> >battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.

    >>
    >> Part of what you (not surprisingly) snipped in your pro-Verizon spin:
    >>

    >
    >Rest snipped because John did not read the article. How do I know? Because
    >the paragraph above the negative line is a direct quote from the article the
    >OP cited.


    That makes no sense. Regardless, I did in fact read the entire article.

    >Suggest all read the article. Yes you have to register to see it, but
    >registration is free and you will not get spammed.


    Good advice. See for yourself how Steven's selective quotation was
    misleading.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  9. #9
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [email protected]lid wrote:

    <snip>

    > Last three paragraphs are probably the best
    >
    > "Some research even suggests that network quality may be less of an issue
    > than companies and even consumers think it is. In the 50 largest markets
    > nationwide, more than 97 percent of wireless calls are connected and
    > completed successfully, according to Telephia. More than one-third of the
    > wireless subscribers surveyed by Telephia also said their network quality
    > had improved since they signed up with their current provider, while only 13
    > percent said it had declined.
    >
    > The consumers who really value network quality, Mr. Chamberlain and others
    > say, are those who use a cellphone as their only phone and those who rely on
    > their phones for work. Many other consumers, particularly younger ones, are
    > more likely to choose a carrier based on the handset, not the quality of the
    > network, they said.
    >
    > "Honestly, these ads don't make a dent," said Meredith Belloli, the
    > president of Slant, a marketing agency that focuses on consumers in their
    > 20's. Young consumers "are aware of the 'Can you hear me now?' guy, but it
    > comes down to the style and coolness of the phones." "


    I tend to agree with that. The ads may reinforce what people already
    have learned from unbiased sources such as JD Powers or Consumer
    Reports, but consumers simply filter out proclamations from the carriers
    about having the best network. Cingular's "fewest dropped calls"
    campaign is especially poor because a) dropped calls are only one of
    many factors that determine the quality of a network, and b) there is no
    evidence that they have the fewest dropped calls.

    OTOH, the statement by Telephia regarding the 50 largest markets is a
    bit misleading. They stated that 97% of calls are connected, but this
    could mean that one carrier was closet to 100%, while another carrier
    was 94%.

    Furthermore, I find that a network's coverage is of the most value when
    going _outside_ those 50 largest markets. Specifically, in California,
    when you go into the Sierra's, Verizon (or other CDMA and AMPS carriers
    that you can roam on), provide far greater coverage than is obtainable
    on Cingular or T-Mobile. The same level of coverage may be available on
    Sprint, via roaming, I don't know, as I don't have a Sprint phone, but
    Cingular and T-Mobile are at a big disadvantage.

    Another issue is the coverage on the fringes of those markets. In the
    San Francisco Bay Area, fringe coverage (outside the urban or suburban
    core) varies greatly among carriers (though this will change somewhat if
    AMPS is turned off). Go to parks in the green belt, or to some of the
    new (or old) developments where there is opposition to cell towers, and
    the coverage is very different among carriers, with Verizon being far
    better (as evidenced by all the survey results, as well as my own
    experience).

    So for someone that doesn't travel outside the confines of the core of
    those 50 largest markets, maybe the differences in coverage aren't
    important, but for many people, the true test of network is how well it
    works when they are away from home.



  10. #10
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <[email protected]> on Wed, 03 May 2006 07:04:53
    -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Furthermore, I find that a network's coverage is of the most value when
    >going _outside_ those 50 largest markets. Specifically, in California,
    >when you go into the Sierra's, Verizon (or other CDMA and AMPS carriers
    >that you can roam on), provide far greater coverage than is obtainable
    >on Cingular or T-Mobile. The same level of coverage may be available on
    >Sprint, via roaming, I don't know, as I don't have a Sprint phone, but
    >Cingular and T-Mobile are at a big disadvantage.
    >
    >Another issue is the coverage on the fringes of those markets. In the
    >San Francisco Bay Area, fringe coverage (outside the urban or suburban
    >core) varies greatly among carriers (though this will change somewhat if
    >AMPS is turned off). Go to parks in the green belt, or to some of the
    >new (or old) developments where there is opposition to cell towers, and
    >the coverage is very different among carriers, with Verizon being far
    >better (as evidenced by all the survey results, as well as my own
    >experience).


    Simply untrue. Cingular has very good coverage.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  11. #11
    Stephen
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    On Wed, 03 May 2006 12:50:40 GMT, [email protected]lid had a flock of
    green cheek conures squawk out:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >
    >> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >>
    >> In <[email protected]> on Tue, 02 May 2006 22:34:51
    >> -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >"http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/business/media/03adco.html"
    >> >
    >> >Good article in today's New York Times, regarding all the implicature in
    >> > wireless carrier ads.
    >> >
    >> >Telephia, the company that did the survey that Cingular touts as proving
    >> >that they have the fewest dropped calls, said it had "no knowledge of
    >> >the specific methodology (markets, time periods or statistical
    >> >thresholds) Cingular used to reach the nationwide 'lowest dropped call'
    >> >conclusion."
    >> >
    >> >Sprint has a novel approach, claiming that they have the "most powerful"
    >> >network, whatever the heck that means.
    >> >
    >> >Analysts are surprised that Verizon's rivals are even bringing up the
    >> >issue of network quality, stating that Verizon has already won that
    >> >battle, as evidenced by their showing in the Consumer Reports survey.

    >>
    >> Part of what you (not surprisingly) snipped in your pro-Verizon spin:
    >>

    >
    >Rest snipped because John did not read the article. How do I know? Because
    >the paragraph above the negative line is a direct quote from the article the
    >OP cited.
    >
    >Suggest all read the article. Yes you have to register to see it, but
    >registration is free and you will not get spammed.
    >
    >Lou
    >Education is about knowing where to look for answers.
    >


    Use www.bugmenot.com and you don't have to register.

    Stephen
    --



  12. #12
    Peter Pan
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    John Navas wrote:
    >
    > Simply untrue. Cingular has very good coverage.


    Actually, where *I* live (about 11 miles north of I90 in the spokane area),
    *ONLY* Verizon works at all, cingular (and sprint/etc) don't work at ALL!
    There they have absolutely terrible/no coverage...





  13. #13
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <[email protected]> on Wed, 3 May 2006 10:02:16 -0700, "Peter
    Pan" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >John Navas wrote:
    >>
    >> Simply untrue. Cingular has very good coverage.

    >
    >Actually, where *I* live (about 11 miles north of I90 in the spokane area),
    >*ONLY* Verizon works at all, cingular (and sprint/etc) don't work at ALL!
    >There they have absolutely terrible/no coverage...


    Not surprising, since all carriers have coverage holes, and no one carrier is
    best throughout one given area, let alone all areas (as some proponents try to
    claim).

    My statement above was specific to the claim that Verizon is "far better" in
    the "San Francisco Bay Area".

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  14. #14
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    Peter Pan wrote:
    > John Navas wrote:
    >> Simply untrue. Cingular has very good coverage.

    >
    > Actually, where *I* live (about 11 miles north of I90 in the spokane area),
    > *ONLY* Verizon works at all, cingular (and sprint/etc) don't work at ALL!
    > There they have absolutely terrible/no coverage...


    There's your problem, you don't live in one of the 50 largest
    metropolitan areas! Shame on you. Move. Actually, I'd bet you'd fine
    that right along I90 you can get coverage on the other carriers, just
    not very far from the freeway (US 395 also looks like it has some
    coverage, though incomplete). Last month I was up on I80 in the Sierras,
    and Cingular worked along the freeway, but as soon as you got a couple
    of miles away from the freeway, or other main road, the coverage
    disappeared (unless you were on a mountain with line-of-sight to a city).

    Of course different areas have different carriers that are the best.
    Consumer Reports covered only 18 metropolitan areas in their survey, and
    Verizon was the top carrier in 17 of those areas. This was an especially
    well-designed survey with a very large statistical sample size, so the
    margin of error is very low.



  15. #15
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Best Cellphone Company? All of Them, to Hear Them Say It

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <[email protected]> on Wed, 03 May 2006 10:23:42
    -0700, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Peter Pan wrote:
    >> John Navas wrote:
    >>> Simply untrue. Cingular has very good coverage.

    >>
    >> Actually, where *I* live (about 11 miles north of I90 in the spokane area),
    >> *ONLY* Verizon works at all, cingular (and sprint/etc) don't work at ALL!
    >> There they have absolutely terrible/no coverage...

    >
    >There's your problem, you don't live in one of the 50 largest
    >metropolitan areas! Shame on you. Move. Actually, I'd bet you'd fine
    >that right along I90 you can get coverage on the other carriers, just
    >not very far from the freeway (US 395 also looks like it has some
    >coverage, though incomplete). Last month I was up on I80 in the Sierras,
    >and Cingular worked along the freeway, but as soon as you got a couple
    >of miles away from the freeway, or other main road, the coverage
    >disappeared (unless you were on a mountain with line-of-sight to a city).


    Time for you to get that old defective phone replaced with one that actually
    works well.

    >Of course different areas have different carriers that are the best.
    >Consumer Reports covered only 18 metropolitan areas in their survey, and
    >Verizon was the top carrier in 17 of those areas. This was an especially
    >well-designed survey with a very large statistical sample size, so the
    >margin of error is very low.


    Not true. The CU is actually a self-selected survey of a non-representative
    population with insufficient data to be valid in many areas. In addition, it
    inappropriately mixes different networks and technologies for Cingular and
    Sprint-Nextel. You just like it because it fits your agenda/vendetta.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



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