50% clause in terms of service contract with Cingular

Can some one show me where the 50% clause is located in the terms of
service contract for Cingular wireless? I have read the contract and I
do not find anywhere in there stating 50% usage. Cingular is dropping
me after 3 yrs of service because they say that I do not live in an
area directly served by Cingulars' network even though their coverage
map covers the area I live in. I called a Cingular authorized dealer in
my area and he said that Cingular was doing 'stuff' that he thought was
bad for business, but no specifics. My opinion is that Cingular is
dropping folks who use mostly mobile to mobile and don't incur further
charges. Thanks

---

› See More: 50% clause in terms of service contract with Cingular

zoomzoom wrote:
> Can some one show me where the 50% clause is located in the terms of
> service contract for Cingular wireless? I have read the contract and I
> do not find anywhere in there stating 50% usage. Cingular is dropping
> me after 3 yrs of service because they say that I do not live in an
> area directly served by Cingulars' network even though their coverage
> map covers the area I live in. I called a Cingular authorized dealer in
> my area and he said that Cingular was doing 'stuff' that he thought was
> bad for business, but no specifics.

Yeah...its bad for the customer facing relationship, but good for
Cingular's business bottom line (the other carriers are doing it too).
If Cingular's "coverage map" shows you are in their service area, the
50% off coverage is a moot point - even though they will point to you
that you really aren't in THEIR service area.

An interesting defense (for the customer) might be a negligence tactic.
Did the customer do or not do what anyone else would have done in a
similar situation, i.e. You looked at the coverage map like anyone else
would. You listened to the Cingular sales rep telling you they had
coverage there. You believed it was Cingular's territory.

The negligence law (and just about all states use the same Vernon's
Annotated Statutes) has often trumped contractual agreements. Much the
same way if you signed an employment contract stating you agreed to work
overtime without getting paid time and a half in a job that was not
overtime exempt by federal law.

Funny thought - what if contractual law was deregulated.

[sicker mode]
And since I have testified as an expert witness a few times over the
past thirty years, I surely have the same legal experience as a certain
someone else here.
[/snicker mode]

DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> zoomzoom wrote:
> > Can some one show me where the 50% clause is located in the terms of
> > service contract for Cingular wireless? I have read the contract and I
> > do not find anywhere in there stating 50% usage. Cingular is dropping
> > me after 3 yrs of service because they say that I do not live in an
> > area directly served by Cingulars' network even though their coverage
> > map covers the area I live in. I called a Cingular authorized dealer in
> > my area and he said that Cingular was doing 'stuff' that he thought was
> > bad for business, but no specifics.
>
> Yeah...its bad for the customer facing relationship, but good for
> Cingular's business bottom line (the other carriers are doing it too).
> If Cingular's "coverage map" shows you are in their service area, the
> 50% off coverage is a moot point - even though they will point to you
> that you really aren't in THEIR service area.
>
> An interesting defense (for the customer) might be a negligence tactic.
> Did the customer do or not do what anyone else would have done in a
> similar situation, i.e. You looked at the coverage map like anyone else
> would. You listened to the Cingular sales rep telling you they had
> coverage there. You believed it was Cingular's territory.
>
> The negligence law (and just about all states use the same Vernon's
> Annotated Statutes) has often trumped contractual agreements. Much the
> same way if you signed an employment contract stating you agreed to work
> overtime without getting paid time and a half in a job that was not
> overtime exempt by federal law.
>
> Funny thought - what if contractual law was deregulated.
>
> [sicker mode]
> And since I have testified as an expert witness a few times over the
> past thirty years, I surely have the same legal experience as a certain
> someone else here.
> [/snicker mode]



Directly from their website:

I separated the line in the middle of the paragraph to make it easier
to see.

http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/cel...terms=postpaid


Terms Applicable to Cingular Nation GSM Plans:
Wireless service is subject to credit approval. If I terminate this
Agreement before expiration of my Service Commitment, I will pay
Cingular an Early Termination Fee of $175 for each wireless telephone
number associate with this service. If phone is returned within 30 days
in like-new condition with all components, early termination fee will
be waived. All other charges apply. Minutes will be depleted according
to usage in the following order: night and weekend minutes, mobile to
mobile minutes, anytime minutes and rollover minutes. Minute Increment
Billing and Usage: Airtime and other measured usage are billed in
full-minute increments, and actual airtime and usage are rounded up to
the next full increment at the end of each call for billing purposes.
Cingular Wireless charges a full-minute increment of usage for every
fraction of the last minute used on each wireless call. Calls placed on
networks served by other carriers may take longer to be processed, and
billing for these calls may be delayed. Those minutes will be applied
against your anytime monthly minutes in the month in which the calls
appear on your bill. Unanswered calls of 30 seconds or longer incur
airtime. Pricing/Taxes/No Proration: Final month's charges are not
prorated. Prices are subject to change. Prices do not include taxes.
Activation Fees: $36 Activation Fee for each new line, $26 Activation
Fee applies on each FamilyTalk line. Cingular does not guarantee
availability of the network. Nights and Weekends: Nights are 9:00 p.m.
to 6:00 a.m. Weekends are 9:00 p.m. Friday to 6:00 a.m. Monday (based
on time of day at switch providing your service). Included long
distance calls can be made from the 50 United States, Puerto Rico and
U.S. Virgin Islands to the 50 United States, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin
Islands, Guam and Northern Mariana Islands. Roaming charges do not
apply when roaming within the service area of land-based networks of
the 50 United States, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands (if you go to
Guam and Northern Mariana Islands, you are roaming). International long
distance rates vary. Additional charges apply to services used outside
the U.S. and its territories.

Cingular reserves the right to terminate your service if less than 50%
of your usage over three consecutive billing cycles is on
Cingular-owned systems.

Customer must (1) use a Cingular GSM dual-band handset programmed with
Cingular Wireless' preferred roaming database; (2) have a mailing
address and live in the immediate geographic area in which subscription
is made. Caller ID Blocking: Your billing name may be displayed along
with your wireless number on outbound calls to other wireless and
landline phones with Caller ID capability. Contact customer service for
information on blocking the display of your name and number. You may be
charged for both an incoming and an outgoing call when incoming calls
are routed to voicemail, even if no message is left. In the event that
the conditions of the Plan as described above are violated, Cingular
may move subscriber to another calling plan or terminate customer's
service. Additional Terms and Conditions apply. See Wireless Service
Agreement for additional conditions and restrictions. Rollover Minutes:
Rollover Minutes accumulate and expire through 12 rolling bill periods.
Bill Period 1 (activation) unused Anytime Minutes will not carry over.
Bill Period 2 unused Anytime Minutes will begin to carry over. Rollover
Minutes accumulated starting with Bill Period 2 will expire each bill
period as they reach a 12 bill period age. Rollover Minutes will also
expire immediately upon default or if customer changes to a
non-Rollover plan. Rollover Minutes are not redeemable for cash or
credit and are not transferable. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile
minutes do not carry over. If you change from one rollover plan to
another rollover plan, any accumulated Rollover Minutes in excess of
the new plan's number of monthly anytime minutes will expire upon such
change. If you migrate a single line to a FamilyTalk plan or should a
subscriber join your FamilyTalk plan for which your line is the primary
line, any accumulated rollover minutes for all lines included in the
new FamilyTalk group's Rollover Minutes in excess of the monthly
anytime minutes for such group shall expire upon such change.
FamilyTalk: FamilyTalk may require up to a two-year service agreement
for each line. FamilyTalk plans include only package minutes included
with the primary number, and minutes are shared by the additional
lines. The rate shown for additional minutes applies to all minutes in
excess of the anytime minutes. If the rate plan for the primary number
is changed to an ineligible plan or the primary number is disconnected,
one of the existing additional lines shall become the primary number on
the rate plan previously subscribed to by the former primary number.
Mobile to Mobile Minutes: Mobile to Mobile Minutes may be used when
directly dialing or receiving calls from any other Cingular phone
number from within your calling area. Mobile to Mobile Minutes may not
be used for interconnection to other networks. Voice Connect: Regular
airtime charges apply. Mobile to Mobile Minutes do not apply. Calls to
911, 411, 611, 711 and international dialing cannot be completed with
Voice Connect Services. Caller ID cannot be blocked. Caller ID will be
delivered on all calls, even if you have permanently blocked your name
and number. Voice Connect Services provided by BeVocal. To terminate
Voice Connect Services without incurring charges, dial 611 from your
wireless phone within the 30-day trial period.

In article <[email protected]>,
"zoomzoom" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Can some one show me where the 50% clause is located in the terms of
> service contract for Cingular wireless? I have read the contract and I
> do not find anywhere in there stating 50% usage. Cingular is dropping
> me after 3 yrs of service because they say that I do not live in an
> area directly served by Cingulars' network even though their coverage
> map covers the area I live in. I called a Cingular authorized dealer in
> my area and he said that Cingular was doing 'stuff' that he thought was
> bad for business, but no specifics. My opinion is that Cingular is
> dropping folks who use mostly mobile to mobile and don't incur further
> charges. Thanks

Complain to Cingular HQ with a cc to your State's Attorney General.

zoomzoom wrote:
> Can some one show me where the 50% clause is located in the terms of
> service contract for Cingular wireless? I have read the contract and I
> do not find anywhere in there stating 50% usage. Cingular is dropping
> me after 3 yrs of service because they say that I do not live in an
> area directly served by Cingulars' network even though their coverage
> map covers the area I live in.

Since when has their coverage map had anything to do with what areas
actually have native coverage?

SMS wrote:
> Since when has their coverage map had anything to do with what areas
> actually have native coverage?

To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of the
U.S. with lots of orange.

DecaturTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Since when has their coverage map had anything to do with what areas
>> actually have native coverage?
>
> To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of the
> U.S. with lots of orange.

There is a difference between coverage and native coverage. They will sell
you service where there is native coverage and you can use your phone anywhere
that they provide coverage. The point is that his area is not natively
covered and they should not have sold him service [granted, they did, but that
is another issue altogether].

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> DecaturTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of the
>> U.S. with lots of orange.
>
> There is a difference between coverage and native coverage. They will sell
> you service where there is native coverage and you can use your phone anywhere
> that they provide coverage. The point is that his area is not natively
> covered and they should not have sold him service [granted, they did, but that
> is another issue altogether].

You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
way past the two week mandated trial period.

So what happens? [fill in the blanks]

DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
>> DecaturTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of
>>> the U.S. with lots of orange.
>>
>>
>> There is a difference between coverage and native coverage. They will
>> sell
>> you service where there is native coverage and you can use your phone
>> anywhere
>> that they provide coverage. The point is that his area is not natively
>> covered and they should not have sold him service [granted, they did,
>> but that
>> is another issue altogether].
>
>
> You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
> a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
> customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
> billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
> way past the two week mandated trial period.
>
> So what happens? [fill in the blanks]


Cingular should cancel the service and contract, refund all monies
collected for the three months including fees, taxes, with interest, or
the attorneys do lunch.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Jer wrote:
> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> > Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> >
> >> DecaturTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of
> >>> the U.S. with lots of orange.
> >>
> >>
> >> There is a difference between coverage and native coverage. They will
> >> sell
> >> you service where there is native coverage and you can use your phone
> >> anywhere
> >> that they provide coverage. The point is that his area is not natively
> >> covered and they should not have sold him service [granted, they did,
> >> but that
> >> is another issue altogether].
> >
> >
> > You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
> > a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
> > customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
> > billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
> > way past the two week mandated trial period.
> >
> > So what happens? [fill in the blanks]
>
>
> Cingular should cancel the service and contract, refund all monies
> collected for the three months including fees, taxes, with interest, or
> the attorneys do lunch.
>
> --
> jer
> email reply - I am not a 'ten'

I talked to a cellular rep today about the reason they kicked me out.
He is as confused as I am. He said I am listed as an orange customer
which apparently means I am in the coverage area.He again called
Cingular. They told him some BS about how I must be connecting up to
another carriers' tower that is near me even though a Cingular tower is
very close to me ,about 2 miles as the crow flies.Well to hell with
cingular. I went today and signed up with Verizon since that is the
only other one that provides service in my area. It cost me 35.00
connection fees for each of the three phones plus they charged me 25
dollars for a so called programming fee for each phone. He said it was
because Verizon had to program their phones to work on their system. Is
that some bull**** or what! I also found out that I can no longer use
my Motorola phone tools to upload my pics to my pc,nor can I send my on
ringtone to my phone. I have to use their network to do it. That really
pisses me off. The money grabbers! Thanks

DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
> a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
> customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
> billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
> way past the two week mandated trial period.
>
> So what happens? [fill in the blanks]

Thanks SMS...*THAT* certianly anser the question!

"http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2006071912/"

"Those customers who must find an alternative carrier will be released
from their contract immediately and will not incur any penalties."

"zoomzoom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jer wrote:
>> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>> > Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> >
>> >> DecaturTxCowboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> To the typical customer, there is no distinction. They see a map of
>> >>> the U.S. with lots of orange.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There is a difference between coverage and native coverage. They will
>> >> sell
>> >> you service where there is native coverage and you can use your phone
>> >> anywhere
>> >> that they provide coverage. The point is that his area is not
>> >> natively
>> >> covered and they should not have sold him service [granted, they did,
>> >> but that
>> >> is another issue altogether].
>> >
>> >
>> > You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that
>> > (but
>> > a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
>> > customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
>> > billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
>> > way past the two week mandated trial period.
>> >
>> > So what happens? [fill in the blanks]
>>
>>
>> Cingular should cancel the service and contract, refund all monies
>> collected for the three months including fees, taxes, with interest, or
>> the attorneys do lunch.
>>
>> --
>> jer
>> email reply - I am not a 'ten'
>
> I talked to a cellular rep today about the reason they kicked me out.
> He is as confused as I am. He said I am listed as an orange customer
> which apparently means I am in the coverage area.He again called
> Cingular. They told him some BS about how I must be connecting up to
> another carriers' tower that is near me even though a Cingular tower is
> very close to me ,about 2 miles as the crow flies.Well to hell with
> cingular. I went today and signed up with Verizon since that is the
> only other one that provides service in my area. It cost me 35.00
> connection fees for each of the three phones plus they charged me 25
> dollars for a so called programming fee for each phone. He said it was
> because Verizon had to program their phones to work on their system. Is
> that some bull**** or what! I also found out that I can no longer use
> my Motorola phone tools to upload my pics to my pc,nor can I send my on
> ringtone to my phone. I have to use their network to do it. That really
> pisses me off. The money grabbers! Thanks
>

No one twisted your arm!

"DecaturTxCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>> You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
>> a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
>> customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
>> billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
>> way past the two week mandated trial period.
>>
>> So what happens? [fill in the blanks]
>
> Thanks SMS...*THAT* certianly anser the question!
>
> "http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2006071912/"
>
> "Those customers who must find an alternative carrier will be released
> from their contract immediately and will not incur any penalties."

First, no cost incurred by a company is 'transparent' toits customers. It is
built into the prices that company charges you for their product/service (or
they have some real dumb asses in management!).

I also wonder if they are willing to 'unlock' those phones they are letting
the customers they care so much about keep?

PC Medic wrote:
> "DecaturTxCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
>>> You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
>>> a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
>>> customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
>>> billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
>>> way past the two week mandated trial period.
>>>
>>> So what happens? [fill in the blanks]
>> Thanks SMS...*THAT* certianly anser the question!
>>
>> "http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2006071912/"
>>
>> "Those customers who must find an alternative carrier will be released
>> from their contract immediately and will not incur any penalties."
>
> First, no cost incurred by a company is 'transparent' toits customers. It is
> built into the prices that company charges you for their product/service (or
> they have some real dumb asses in management!).
>
> I also wonder if they are willing to 'unlock' those phones they are letting
> the customers they care so much about keep?

If the customer paid for the phone, then they should be refunding the
price, plus any activation fee.

SMS wrote:
> PC Medic wrote:
> > "DecaturTxCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
> >>> You know that..I know that...and perhaps the sales person know that (but
> >>> a moot point as the sales person isn't going ditch a sale), but the
> >>> customer will certainly know that after 3 months (the three consecutive
> >>> billing cycle clause for over 50% off network use) and three months is
> >>> way past the two week mandated trial period.
> >>>
> >>> So what happens? [fill in the blanks]
> >> Thanks SMS...*THAT* certianly anser the question!
> >>
> >> "http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2006071912/"
> >>
> >> "Those customers who must find an alternative carrier will be released
> >> from their contract immediately and will not incur any penalties."
> >
> > First, no cost incurred by a company is 'transparent' toits customers. It is
> > built into the prices that company charges you for their product/service (or
> > they have some real dumb asses in management!).
> >
> > I also wonder if they are willing to 'unlock' those phones they are letting
> > the customers they care so much about keep?
>
> If the customer paid for the phone, then they should be refunding the
> price, plus any activation fee.