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  1. #16
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 12:02:08 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    >> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
    >>>

    >>
    >> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
    >> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
    >>
    >> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
    >> in the power grid at 60Hz.

    >
    >The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
    >high voltage DC.


    In fact most current long distance power transmission is high voltage
    AC, although HVDC is slowly gaining traction. Because of the high cost
    of conversion between AC and DC, the breakeven for HVDC is about 600-800
    km.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



    See More: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power




  2. #17
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    At 15 Nov 2006 20:01:40 +0000 John Navas wrote:

    > >Powering a laptop computer would be a real accomplishment, I wouldn't
    > >hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

    >
    > No kidding, because solar power density is way too low to be practical
    > ever outdoors, and isn't available indoors.
    >
    > Do your homework before ranting.
    >


    This negativity coming from someone who thinks they'll be beaming power
    wirelessly to that same laptop soon?

    They'll probably be beaming your laptop from one place to another a la
    Star Trek before they'll ever be beaming power to it OTA! ;-)


    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com




  3. #18
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:05:41 -0700, Todd Allcock
    <[email protected]> wrote in
    <[email protected]>:

    >At 15 Nov 2006 20:01:40 +0000 John Navas wrote:
    >
    >> >Powering a laptop computer would be a real accomplishment, I wouldn't
    >> >hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

    >>
    >> No kidding, because solar power density is way too low to be practical
    >> ever outdoors, and isn't available indoors.
    >>
    >> Do your homework before ranting.

    >
    >This negativity coming from someone who thinks they'll be beaming power
    >wirelessly to that same laptop soon?
    >
    >They'll probably be beaming your laptop from one place to another a la
    >Star Trek before they'll ever be beaming power to it OTA! ;-)


    I'm guessing we'll first see wireless recharging of low power devices
    like cell phones, cordless phones, digital cameras, wireless remotes,
    MP3 players, etc. Cell phones in particular would benefit from this
    technology, seamlessly charging whenever brought within range of a base
    station.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  4. #19
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:

    >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >
    >> Minor trivia: Ever wonder how much power your laptop sucks? No need
    >> to measure it. Just look at the rating on the battery charger.
    >> Multiply volts times amps to get watts. The idea is that the battery
    >> charger is suppose to run the laptop with the battery removed. It can
    >> only do that if it has sufficient power capacity. Most of mine are
    >> around 40 watts. However, I've seen Toshiba desktop replacements with
    >> 120 watt power adapter and blow enough hot air to suspect all of it is
    >> being used.

    >
    >The charger needs to be able to both charge the battery, and run the laptop


    Agreed. I forgot about the battery. However, it charges at perhaps
    C/10 or C/20 which would not contribute a huge increase to the drain
    on the power supply. Still, you're correct and it should be added
    into the guestimation.

    >The only way to determine the power is to measure it.


    Sure, but my point was that one could obtain a fair estimate of how
    much the laptop will burn from the charger ratings. At the least, it
    will not be more than the charger ratings or it will go into foldback,
    shutdown, or burn out. The idea was to use the nameplate numbers to
    estimate how much power would need to be delivered by a solar,
    inductive, cazapitive, or wireless power solution.

    >I've instrumented a lot of laptops to measure all the different power
    >levels of each supply. In reality, the core, the hard drive, and the
    >screen consume magnitudes more power that all the other components.
    >
    >You also really don't know the maximum power the laptop consumes until
    >you run a power virus program. You have to run these when you're doing
    >worst case design of the laptops thermal solution and power supply
    >components.


    Agreed (again). However, I'm just suggesting using the rating for an
    initial estimate on laptop power consumption. In your experience, how
    close is the power rating to the actual measured maximum power drain?
    --
    Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



  5. #20
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:
    >
    >> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >>
    >>> Minor trivia: Ever wonder how much power your laptop sucks? No need
    >>> to measure it. Just look at the rating on the battery charger.
    >>> Multiply volts times amps to get watts. The idea is that the battery
    >>> charger is suppose to run the laptop with the battery removed. It can
    >>> only do that if it has sufficient power capacity. Most of mine are
    >>> around 40 watts. However, I've seen Toshiba desktop replacements with
    >>> 120 watt power adapter and blow enough hot air to suspect all of it is
    >>> being used.

    >> The charger needs to be able to both charge the battery, and run the laptop

    >
    > Agreed. I forgot about the battery. However, it charges at perhaps
    > C/10 or C/20 which would not contribute a huge increase to the drain
    > on the power supply. Still, you're correct and it should be added
    > into the guestimation.


    Li-Ion batteries are charged at a rate between 0.2C and 0.7C, and
    sometimes are fast as C.



  6. #21
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:

    >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >> SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:
    >>
    >>> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Minor trivia: Ever wonder how much power your laptop sucks? No need
    >>>> to measure it. Just look at the rating on the battery charger.
    >>>> Multiply volts times amps to get watts. The idea is that the battery
    >>>> charger is suppose to run the laptop with the battery removed. It can
    >>>> only do that if it has sufficient power capacity. Most of mine are
    >>>> around 40 watts. However, I've seen Toshiba desktop replacements with
    >>>> 120 watt power adapter and blow enough hot air to suspect all of it is
    >>>> being used.
    >>> The charger needs to be able to both charge the battery, and run the laptop

    >>
    >> Agreed. I forgot about the battery. However, it charges at perhaps
    >> C/10 or C/20 which would not contribute a huge increase to the drain
    >> on the power supply. Still, you're correct and it should be added
    >> into the guestimation.


    >Li-Ion batteries are charged at a rate between 0.2C and 0.7C, and
    >sometimes are fast as C.


    Ouch. At that high a charge rate, the charger would need to deliver
    at least double the laptop current drain. So much for my theory.
    Never mind.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



  7. #22
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:
    >
    >> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >>> SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:
    >>>
    >>>> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Minor trivia: Ever wonder how much power your laptop sucks? No need
    >>>>> to measure it. Just look at the rating on the battery charger.
    >>>>> Multiply volts times amps to get watts. The idea is that the battery
    >>>>> charger is suppose to run the laptop with the battery removed. It can
    >>>>> only do that if it has sufficient power capacity. Most of mine are
    >>>>> around 40 watts. However, I've seen Toshiba desktop replacements with
    >>>>> 120 watt power adapter and blow enough hot air to suspect all of it is
    >>>>> being used.
    >>>> The charger needs to be able to both charge the battery, and run the laptop
    >>> Agreed. I forgot about the battery. However, it charges at perhaps
    >>> C/10 or C/20 which would not contribute a huge increase to the drain
    >>> on the power supply. Still, you're correct and it should be added
    >>> into the guestimation.

    >
    >> Li-Ion batteries are charged at a rate between 0.2C and 0.7C, and
    >> sometimes are fast as C.

    >
    > Ouch. At that high a charge rate, the charger would need to deliver
    > at least double the laptop current drain. So much for my theory.
    > Never mind.
    >


    Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
    minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.



  8. #23
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
    >minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.


    [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  9. #24
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > While your concern is understandable, I think it's overdone -- the
    > physics make such side effects unlikely.
    >


    They ALWAYS find out that they didn't account for something after millions of
    people have been exposed. Considering the amount of energy in question here
    is significant when considering long term exposure, I don't think it can be so
    easily dismissed. Consider the fact that animal life has never in history
    been so exposed to radiation as the modern human has. Adding more energy to
    the mix is potentially more destructive so the frequency must be chosen wisely
    and tested carefully.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0





  10. #25
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    In alt.cellular.cingular SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    >> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
    >>>

    >>
    >> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
    >> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
    >>
    >> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
    >> in the power grid at 60Hz.

    >
    > The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
    > high voltage DC.


    We had this discussion before. Some of it is.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0





  11. #26
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    In alt.cellular.cingular Jeff Liebermann <[email protected]> wrote:
    > SMS <[email protected]> hath wroth:
    >
    >>Powering a laptop computer would be a real accomplishment, I wouldn't
    >>hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

    >
    > Minor trivia: Ever wonder how much power your laptop sucks? No need
    > to measure it. Just look at the rating on the battery charger.
    > Multiply volts times amps to get watts. The idea is that the battery
    > charger is suppose to run the laptop with the battery removed. It can
    > only do that if it has sufficient power capacity. Most of mine are
    > around 40 watts. However, I've seen Toshiba desktop replacements with
    > 120 watt power adapter and blow enough hot air to suspect all of it is
    > being used.
    >


    Many supply enough power to power the laptop, with periphs AND charge the
    battery. So, the power supply should significantly exceed the normal power
    consumption.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0





  12. #27
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:41:29 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
    <[email protected]> wrote in <Zw07h.93$%[email protected]>:

    >In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> While your concern is understandable, I think it's overdone -- the
    >> physics make such side effects unlikely.

    >
    >They ALWAYS find out that they didn't account for something after millions of
    >people have been exposed.


    Not always. People have been ranting about RF harm for years without
    any real justification.

    >Considering the amount of energy in question here
    >is significant when considering long term exposure, I don't think it can be so
    >easily dismissed. Consider the fact that animal life has never in history
    >been so exposed to radiation as the modern human has. Adding more energy to
    >the mix is potentially more destructive so the frequency must be chosen wisely
    >and tested carefully.


    I respectfully suggest you read (and understand) the paper before
    leaping to conclusions.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  13. #28
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    In alt.cellular.cingular SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > You also really don't know the maximum power the laptop consumes until
    > you run a power virus program. You have to run these when you're doing
    > worst case design of the laptops thermal solution and power supply
    > components.
    >


    Or run Half-Life II. ;-)

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0





  14. #29
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:41:55 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
    <[email protected]> wrote in <nx07h.94$%[email protected]>:

    >In alt.cellular.cingular SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    >>> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
    >>>
    >>> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
    >>> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
    >>>
    >>> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
    >>> in the power grid at 60Hz.

    >>
    >> The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
    >> high voltage DC.

    >
    >We had this discussion before. Some of it is.


    Steven doesn't let facts get in the way of stuff he makes up.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  15. #30
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power

    In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    > wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
    >>minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.

    >
    > [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.
    >


    Yes, and it significantly decreases the life of the battery ... they simply
    get too hot!

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0





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