AT&T/Cingular Customers Call Free to AT&T Landline Customers

Well I guess I didn't make my self clear, but I what I was trying to
say is that the landline service is a much more cost effective way to
go than Vonage - so actually it had alot to do with the post

3GFreak
www.mobilevertigo.com

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "3Gfreak" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > VONAGE is VOIP! Not landline service and there are a few "Must Have's"
> > to get this package, but it isn't much different than having a
> > landline, cellphone etc. The benefits are far greater and much more
> > cost effective in the long run.
>
> Not sure what your post had to do with the article you actually replied
> to...
>
> Anyway, vonage is overpriced. WAY overpriced. Do your research.

---

› See More: AT&T/Cingular Customers Call Free to AT&T Landline Customers

3Gfreak wrote:
> Well I guess I didn't make my self clear, but I what I was trying to
> say is that the landline service is a much more cost effective way to
> go than Vonage - so actually it had alot to do with the post

Vonage is doing very poorly, mainly because it's so cost ineffective
compared to a landline and a cheap long-distance service like OneSuite
or TalkLoop. Even among VOIP providers, their system is less capable,
and more expensive than other companies, like Voicestick.

At 21 Jan 2007 20:04:03 -0800 SMS wrote:

> Vonage is doing very poorly, mainly because it's so cost ineffective
> compared to a landline and a cheap long-distance service like
> OneSuite or TalkLoop.


They remind me of AOL in it's heyday. They price themselves above
market, capitalizing on the ignorance of their users who think this is
how all providers of that service work.

Take the Vonage soft-phone, for example- first, they didn't offer it
until long after other providers did, and then they have the nerve to
charge $10/month extra for it!

> Even among VOIP providers, their system is less capable, and more
> expensive than other companies, like Voicestick.

Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.

I've been playing with Voicestick more since finding a good deal on their
unlocked MG-3 ATA on eBay ($10!) Sound quality is good, and it's a
pleasure using a real phone and not needing a PC or proprietary wireless
hardware, like with Skype. The fact that I can use a softphone as well,
for no extra cost, on my PPC phone is a bonus. (That comes in handy when
I'm stuck in a hotel with free Wi-Fi and crummy T-Mobile reception!)

"Thurman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Anyway, vonage is overpriced. WAY overpriced. Do your research.
>
> After SWB/SBC/ATT charged me 98 cents a minute for Canada calls, I went
> Vonage where Canada is local.
>
> Charter called to offer 32 cents/min for calls to Costa Rica vs ATT's 34
> cents; Vonage is 2 (yep, two). I call every week now, not every quarter.
>
>
>

Skype is offering unlimited calls for $14.95 per year! The price doubles
after 1/31.

There are numerous phone sets offered that look and act like ordinary
cordless phones, but which run the calls over Skype.

They will even give you a local phone number, so you can receive incoming
calls from people using regular phone lines, for $38.00 annually.

Todd Allcock wrote:

> Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
> continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
> it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
> their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
> the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.

If they make a lot of long distance calls, AND they have broadband cable
internet, AND they need to make a lot of peak time calls that they can't
use N&W or MTM on their cell phone for, then $25 may be better than
their landline. Personally, I'd have to make three hours of long
distance calls per month before Vonage would be worthwhile, not counting
the fact that cable broadband would cost me an extra $25 per month over
DSL, which would pay for more than another twenty hours of long distance.

People get carried away with "unlimited" because they are unaware of how
cheap long distance calling actually is if they sign up for a good
service such as TalkLoop. They're doing their calculations using LD
rates from AT&T or other high cost LD provider. They might also benefit
from switching to a wireless carrier like Sprint that has 7 p.m. nights
and weekends, versus 9 p.m. of the other carriers.

> Todd Allcock wrote:
>
>> Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
>> continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
>> it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
>> their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
>> the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.
>

The fact remains that Vonage is operating in the red, so it would be
difficult for them to justify a rate reduction.

I use Verizon's VoIP service, VoiceWing, also $24.95 per month, and it is a
Godsend, considering that I routinely used to generate LD bills in excess of
$200/month, back in the days of AT&T Reach Out America (First hour was
$10.00, and additional hours were $7.80 each, billed in increments of one
minute after the first full hour).

These are, truly, great days for long distance customers. Who ever thought
that we could communicate for free via Instant Messenger, or for $15/year
via Skype, or $25.00 per month on VoIP lines? Who would have believed, back
in 1984, that AT&T long distance would one day be replaced by cheap
flat-rate substitutes? I, for one, am truly grateful. I remember in the
80s, when a call on Bell coast-to-coast was $.57 per minute during the
daytime.

jeremy wrote:
>> Todd Allcock wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
>>> continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
>>> it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
>>> their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
>>> the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.
>
> The fact remains that Vonage is operating in the red, so it would be
> difficult for them to justify a rate reduction.

That's not the way pricing works. You set your prices to be competitive,
it doesn't matter whether you're in the black or the red. You can't
raise prices to raise revenue, as you'll lose customers. Sometimes
lowering prices increases revenue as volume goes up.

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jeremy wrote:
>>> Todd Allcock wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
>>>> continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
>>>> it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
>>>> their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
>>>> the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.
>>
>> The fact remains that Vonage is operating in the red, so it would be
>> difficult for them to justify a rate reduction.
>
> That's not the way pricing works. You set your prices to be competitive,
> it doesn't matter whether you're in the black or the red. You can't raise
> prices to raise revenue, as you'll lose customers. Sometimes lowering
> prices increases revenue as volume goes up.

What is so bad with $25.00/month? Vonage's customers leave, according to
industry reports, because they are unhappy with the call quality, not
because of price.

Does Cingular price their wireless service to be competitive?

At 23 Jan 2007 03:56:39 +0000 jeremy wrote:

> What is so bad with $25.00/month?

Nothing per se, but that's at the high end of unlimted VoIP. Others do
it for $15 or $20, and many offer pay as you go, which is a bargain for
those who use VoIP primarily for international calls (which typically
fall outside the unlimited US/Canada plans.)

> Vonage's customers leave, according to
> industry reports, because they are unhappy with the call quality, not
> because of price.

But the two are related: perceptions of "quality" are colored by value.
People might expect less "quality" from Vonage for $15 than $25, much
like the quality expectation of a $1 McDonald's hamburger is less than a
$10 burger at the Hard Rock.

No offense to Vonage, but my landline service is only $25 (without LD, of
course.) For $25/month I'd expect the Vonage experience to be very close
to landline in quality and uptime, whereas for $10 or $15/month, I'd cut
them a lot more slack.


> Does Cingular price their wireless service to be competitive?

Of course. Their rates are almost in lockstep with Verizon's, despite
higher costs, higher churn, etc. Remember, "competitive" doesn't mean
"cheapest," just in the ballpark, with reasonable justifications for
higher prices! Verizon commands relatively higher prices because the
public's perception of quality ("the network") allows it. Cingular can
offer fewer minutes than others for the same monthly rate as others
because they give you "rollover," etc.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <XHfth.22592$gS1.21423@trndny01>,
> "jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> What is so bad with $25.00/month? Vonage's customers leave, according to
>> industry reports, because they are unhappy with the call quality, not
>> because of price.
>
> What's wrong with $25/month is that the same service with the same
> features is available for $8/month elsewhere.
>
> Jesus, kid. Get a clue.

This is at least the second time you said $8 elsewhere.
So who provides the service at that price and will give me land line quality
?

Double Tap

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Double Tap" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Jesus, kid. Get a clue.
>> This is at least the second time you said $8 elsewhere.
>> So who provides the service at that price and will give me land line quality
>> ?
>
> Sunrocket.

Sunrocket is $17 per month. Yes, everyone knows that you signed up when
there was a half-price special, but the cost now is $199 for two years.

"http://www.sunrocket.com/"

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Agreed. Vonage got in the game early, and seems to think their
>>> continuous advertising will convince people it's a good deal. Again,
>>> it's their reliance on ignorance- people think $25 is a good deal vs.
>>> their landline provider, and it probably is, but competing VoIPs- even
>>> the mainstream ones like Sunrocket, offer better rates.
>> If they make a lot of long distance calls, AND they have broadband cable
>> internet, AND they need to make a lot of peak time calls that they can't
>> use N&W or MTM on their cell phone for, then $25 may be better than
>> their landline.
>
> That's right.
>
> But $8/month for exactly the same thing is even better.

Sunrocket is $17/month. The half-price special is long over. Still, $17
is better than $25.

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> $25 is more than what most people spend for their land line and long
> distance combined. Remember, a great deal of long distance is now done on
> off-peak or mobile to mobile cell phone minutes. Not free, but included at
> no extra cost.
>


I use VoiceWing, also $24.95/month, with no term commitment, and it is a
BARGAIN over what I paid when long distance was billed by the minute. While
I realize that there might be cheaper services out there, I like the fact
that Verizon remains my service provider, rather than some unknown company
without a track record.

I can think of lots of other things to complain about, but not $25.00/month
for a line, all the calling features, and unlimited LD to the US and
Canada--that is an amazing value for me. I formerly paid hundreds and got
less.

Finally I am seeing the fruits of divestiture. Granted, the Internet played
a big role in this, but I never thought I'd live to see the day when I could
make unlimited calls to anywhere for a set price. Combine that with my
cellular N/W and my ability to communicate free via Instant Messengers, and
I feel like a kid in a candy store.

And now Skype is running a $15/ANNUAL promotion. Life is good!

At 23 Jan 2007 11:52:51 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > But $8/month for exactly the same thing is even better.
> >
> > Sunrocket is $17/month. The half-price special is long over.
>
> No, it's a recurring thing.

It used to be a lot more recurring than it seems to be recently. I
haven't seen it since maybe last summer?

Usually when it is offered, it's a one-day only special, often, like you
said, on a holiday. I think I saw it last Easter and last July 4th.

Valentine's Day might be a good time to look if anyone's interested-
Sunrocket could easily pitch it as a "call your loved ones cheap"
promotion.

jeremy wrote:

> What is so bad with $25.00/month? Vonage's customers leave, according to
> industry reports, because they are unhappy with the call quality, not
> because of price.

$25 is more than what most people spend for their land line and long
distance combined. Remember, a great deal of long distance is now done
on off-peak or mobile to mobile cell phone minutes. Not free, but
included at no extra cost.

If someone really was cost sensitive and did a great deal of long
distance calling, then they'd choose a less expensive, and more capable
VOIP provider than Vonage.

Vonage ends up with a very small target market: people that make a lot
of long distance calls, have expensive landline service (every extra
feature on their landline such as call-waiting, caller-ID, three-way
calling, etc.), AND that believe the Vonage ads, rather than doing any
research prior to purchasing.

> Does Cingular price their wireless service to be competitive?

Yes.