Need help changing operating frequency of Samsung Blackjack

I have an unlocked Samsung Blackjack that I have taken with me to
Libya.

I installed a SIM card from a local provider (Libyana) which has GSM
and UMTS networks. I have been able to connect to their GSM network
with no problems but not their UMTS network.

After a week of investigating this issue I believe the problem is this:
The local provider Libyana operates their network at 1922.4 MHz.
However, according to information from Samsung's FAQ page the Blackjack
only operates in the range 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz for the 1900 band UMTS.

So my question for this group is, does anyone know how to modify the
operating frequency range of this phone so that it will connect to a
1922.4 MHz UMTS system?

Any suggestions are welcome.

-Jonathan

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› See More: Need help changing operating frequency of Samsung Blackjack

The operating frequency is based on both hardware and software if the
provider operates outside the parameters of the phone you are out of luck.

Sorry


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have an unlocked Samsung Blackjack that I have taken with me to
> Libya.
>
> I installed a SIM card from a local provider (Libyana) which has GSM
> and UMTS networks. I have been able to connect to their GSM network
> with no problems but not their UMTS network.
>
> After a week of investigating this issue I believe the problem is this:
> The local provider Libyana operates their network at 1922.4 MHz.
> However, according to information from Samsung's FAQ page the Blackjack
> only operates in the range 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz for the 1900 band UMTS.
>
> So my question for this group is, does anyone know how to modify the
> operating frequency range of this phone so that it will connect to a
> 1922.4 MHz UMTS system?
>
> Any suggestions are welcome.
>
> -Jonathan
>

At 25 Jan 2007 07:30:54 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
> I have an unlocked Samsung Blackjack that I have taken with me to
> Libya.
>
> So my question for this group is, does anyone know how to modify the
> operating frequency range of this phone so that it will connect to a
> 1922.4 MHz UMTS system?
>
> Any suggestions are welcome.

Although I have no first hand knowledge, I assume it simply can't be
done. If it were technically possible, why wouldn't the phone be able to
do it already? Cingular gains nothing by preventing you from using data
while roaming- assuming you hadn't unlocked the phone, you'd be paying
them a premium for roaming data- it would make no sense to artificially
limit your data use when they could profit from it. I assume that
frequency is simply outside the hardware limitations of the device.
Sadly UMTS implementation in the US is completely out of whack with the
rest of the world. Even the two national GSM providers in the US use (or
in T-Mobile's case, intend to use- they haven't launched 3G yet)
different frequencies for UMTS, so a Cingular 3G phone can't use 3G on T-
Mo and vice versa, from what I understand.

I think you're simply SOL on this one, unless by some miracle, the
international version of the Blackjack has identical hardware and you can
convert it with new firmware, but that's very unlikely- it just wouldn't
make sense to prohibit certain frequencies for no good reason.

Yup, I admit it isn't looking good for me. Some reports I downloaded
off of UMTS Forum show how the spectrum allocation in the US is
completely different from most of the rest of the world.

Do you know if there is an international version of the Blackjack out
already?

-Jonathan

On Jan 25, 8:34 pm, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
> At 25 Jan 2007 07:30:54 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I have an unlocked Samsung Blackjack that I have taken with me to
> > Libya.
>
> > So my question for this group is, does anyone know how to modify the
> > operating frequency range of this phone so that it will connect to a
> > 1922.4 MHz UMTS system?
>
> > Any suggestions are welcome.Although I have no first hand knowledge, I assume it simply can't be
> done. If it were technically possible, why wouldn't the phone be able to
> do it already? Cingular gains nothing by preventing you from using data
> while roaming- assuming you hadn't unlocked the phone, you'd be paying
> them a premium for roaming data- it would make no sense to artificially
> limit your data use when they could profit from it. I assume that
> frequency is simply outside the hardware limitations of the device.
> Sadly UMTS implementation in the US is completely out of whack with the
> rest of the world. Even the two national GSM providers in the US use (or
> in T-Mobile's case, intend to use- they haven't launched 3G yet)
> different frequencies for UMTS, so a Cingular 3G phone can't use 3G on T-
> Mo and vice versa, from what I understand.
>
> I think you're simply SOL on this one, unless by some miracle, the
> international version of the Blackjack has identical hardware and you can
> convert it with new firmware, but that's very unlikely- it just wouldn't
> make sense to prohibit certain frequencies for no good reason.

At 25 Jan 2007 11:23:35 -0800 [email protected] wrote:

> Do you know if there is an international version of the Blackjack out
> already?

A cursory look at the Samsung site, as well as phonescoop.com seem to
indicate it isn't, unfortunately.

On 2007-01-25, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yup, I admit it isn't looking good for me. Some reports I downloaded
> off of UMTS Forum show how the spectrum allocation in the US is
> completely different from most of the rest of the world.
>
> Do you know if there is an international version of the Blackjack out
> already?

I'm not positive, but I think the US version is an SGH-i607 while the
rest-of-the-world version is an SGH-i600. Whatever you get, the
band you are looking for the phone to support is the 2100 MHz band.

Dennis Ferguson

Ya, it looks like there are some other variants for the Blackjack out
now. Thanks for the tip.

Based on my experience trying to get the Blackjack to work in Libya,
you can't guarantee the phone will work with a particular UMTS system
by simply checking that the phone and the carrier operate at the same
nominal frequency (ie: 2100 Mz). In my case I had checked that the
Blackjack and the carrier in Libya both operated at a nominal frequency
of 1900Mz. However, the actual operating frequency range for the
Blackjack is 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz and the operating frequecy of the
carrier is 1922.4 MHz. So the phone won't work here. Apparently, there
has been no standardization of the UMTS operating frequencies across
all countries worldwide, which is a shame, and will be a real problem
for consumers I predict. I think the providers will have to deal with
this issue eventually.

-Jonathan

On Jan 26, 2:33 am, Dennis Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2007-01-25, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Yup, I admit it isn't looking good for me. Some reports I downloaded
> > off of UMTS Forum show how the spectrum allocation in the US is
> > completely different from most of the rest of the world.
>
> > Do you know if there is an international version of the Blackjack out
> > already?I'm not positive, but I think the US version is an SGH-i607 while the
> rest-of-the-world version is an SGH-i600. Whatever you get, the
> band you are looking for the phone to support is the 2100 MHz band.
>
> Dennis Ferguson

On 26 Jan 2007 10:43:23 -0800, [email protected] wrote in
<[email protected]>:

>Ya, it looks like there are some other variants for the Blackjack out
>now. Thanks for the tip.
>
>Based on my experience trying to get the Blackjack to work in Libya,
>you can't guarantee the phone will work with a particular UMTS system
>by simply checking that the phone and the carrier operate at the same
>nominal frequency (ie: 2100 Mz). In my case I had checked that the
>Blackjack and the carrier in Libya both operated at a nominal frequency
>of 1900Mz. However, the actual operating frequency range for the
>Blackjack is 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz and the operating frequecy of the
>carrier is 1922.4 MHz. So the phone won't work here. Apparently, there
>has been no standardization of the UMTS operating frequencies across
>all countries worldwide, which is a shame, and will be a real problem
>for consumers I predict. I think the providers will have to deal with
>this issue eventually.

There has actually been considerable effort put into UMTS
standardization, and you can depend on UMTS 1900 versus UMTS 2100 in the
great majority of cases. It would seem that Libya is at fault for not
going with one of the two major standard UMTS bands, and I doubt that
anyone else is going to care much about adding cost to support a minor
market like Libya in otherwise world-standard UMTS devices.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

[email protected] wrote:
> Ya, it looks like there are some other variants for the Blackjack out
> now. Thanks for the tip.
>
> Based on my experience trying to get the Blackjack to work in Libya,
> you can't guarantee the phone will work with a particular UMTS system
> by simply checking that the phone and the carrier operate at the same
> nominal frequency (ie: 2100 Mz). In my case I had checked that the
> Blackjack and the carrier in Libya both operated at a nominal frequency
> of 1900Mz. However, the actual operating frequency range for the
> Blackjack is 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz and the operating frequecy of the
> carrier is 1922.4 MHz. So the phone won't work here. Apparently, there
> has been no standardization of the UMTS operating frequencies across
> all countries worldwide, which is a shame, and will be a real problem
> for consumers I predict. I think the providers will have to deal with
> this issue eventually.

It's the handset manufacturers that have to deal with it. Look at Wi-Fi,
where different countries have slightly different systems, and most of
the hardware is programmable to account for this.

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>.... It would seem that Libya is at fault for not
> going with one of the two major standard UMTS bands, and I doubt that
> anyone else is going to care much about adding cost to support a minor
> market like Libya in otherwise world-standard UMTS devices.

"Minor market' with occasional visiting F-111s. ;-)

Can you direct me to a document or web page on the internet that states
the standardized frequecy ranges for UMTS? I'd like to bring it to the
local carrier so that I can explain why my phone doesn't work with
their system.

-Jonathan


> There has actually been considerable effort put into UMTS
> standardization, and you can depend on UMTS 1900 versus UMTS 2100 in the
> great majority of cases. It would seem that Libya is at fault for not
> going with one of the two major standard UMTS bands, and I doubt that
> anyone else is going to care much about adding cost to support a minor
> market like Libya in otherwise world-standard UMTS devices.

See
<http://www.umtsworld.com/technology/frequencies.htm>
See also
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System>

p.s. Please don't switch posting styles (top vs bottom) in mid-thread
-- it's confusing. Thanks.

On 27 Jan 2007 02:39:58 -0800, [email protected] wrote in
<[email protected]>:

>Can you direct me to a document or web page on the internet that states
>the standardized frequecy ranges for UMTS? I'd like to bring it to the
>local carrier so that I can explain why my phone doesn't work with
>their system.

>> There has actually been considerable effort put into UMTS
>> standardization, and you can depend on UMTS 1900 versus UMTS 2100 in the
>> great majority of cases. It would seem that Libya is at fault for not
>> going with one of the two major standard UMTS bands, and I doubt that
>> anyone else is going to care much about adding cost to support a minor
>> market like Libya in otherwise world-standard UMTS devices.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

On 2007-01-27, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Can you direct me to a document or web page on the internet that states
> the standardized frequecy ranges for UMTS? I'd like to bring it to the
> local carrier so that I can explain why my phone doesn't work with
> their system.

Take a look here:

http://www.umtsworld.com/technology/frequencies.htm

The two bands you are concerned with are:

Uplink Downlink
UMTS 2100 1920-1980 2110-2170 (Europe, Asia)
UMTS 1900 1850-1910 1930-1990 (North America)

The uplink frequencies are tranmitted by the handset, the downlink by the
cell towers. The 1907.6 MHz frequency is the center of the highest frequency
UMTS 1900 uplink channel, 1922.4 MHz is the center of the lowest
frequency UMTS 2100 uplink channel.

I don't think there is any problem with standards here. Everthing you've
said is consistent with you having a phone which supports UTMS on the
US 1900 MHz frequencies, while the Libyan system supports UTMS on the
European 2100 MHz frequencies.

Dennis Ferguson

On 2007-01-26, John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2007 10:43:23 -0800, [email protected] wrote in
><[email protected]>:
>
>>Ya, it looks like there are some other variants for the Blackjack out
>>now. Thanks for the tip.
>>
>>Based on my experience trying to get the Blackjack to work in Libya,
>>you can't guarantee the phone will work with a particular UMTS system
>>by simply checking that the phone and the carrier operate at the same
>>nominal frequency (ie: 2100 Mz). In my case I had checked that the
>>Blackjack and the carrier in Libya both operated at a nominal frequency
>>of 1900Mz. However, the actual operating frequency range for the
>>Blackjack is 1852.4 - 1907.6 MHz and the operating frequecy of the
>>carrier is 1922.4 MHz. So the phone won't work here. Apparently, there
>>has been no standardization of the UMTS operating frequencies across
>>all countries worldwide, which is a shame, and will be a real problem
>>for consumers I predict. I think the providers will have to deal with
>>this issue eventually.
>
> There has actually been considerable effort put into UMTS
> standardization, and you can depend on UMTS 1900 versus UMTS 2100 in the
> great majority of cases. It would seem that Libya is at fault for not
> going with one of the two major standard UMTS bands, and I doubt that
> anyone else is going to care much about adding cost to support a minor
> market like Libya in otherwise world-standard UMTS devices.

I don't think that is true, in a couple of ways. Cingular also seems
to support UMTS in the 850 MHz band, as does Rogers in Canada and
the Australian UMTS replacement for CDMA2000, so that's band number three.
And T-Mobile has said they'll run UMTS in the 1700/2100 MHz spectrum they
just bought (different than the European 1900/2100 MHz spectrum), which
is band number four.

There's nothing apparently wrong with Libya, however. 1922.4 MHz is the
frequency of a UMTS 2100 uplink channel, so as far as I can tell they
are using the European 2100 MHz allocation.

Dennis Ferguson

> http://www.umtsworld.com/technology/frequencies.htm
>
> The two bands you are concerned with are:
>
> Uplink Downlink
> UMTS 2100 1920-1980 2110-2170 (Europe, Asia)
> UMTS 1900 1850-1910 1930-1990 (North America)
>
> The uplink frequencies are tranmitted by the handset, the downlink by the
> cell towers. The 1907.6 MHz frequency is the center of the highest frequency
> UMTS 1900 uplink channel, 1922.4 MHz is the center of the lowest
> frequency UMTS 2100 uplink channel.
>
> I don't think there is any problem with standards here. Everthing you've
> said is consistent with you having a phone which supports UTMS on the
> US 1900 MHz frequencies, while the Libyan system supports UTMS on the
> European 2100 MHz frequencies.

I realize what happened now. The provider here in Libya told me their
operating frequency was 1922.4 MHz, which, as you explained, is simply
the uplink channel they are using. Not knowing any better I assumed
their system must be UMTS 1900. So I went ahead and bought the
Blackjack.

Instead of telling me the uplink channel the provider probably should
have told me that their system was UMTS 2100. I guess this is
something you have to deal with in a third world country, where people
are, in general, not as educated and not as competent with
understanding new technology. The guy who told me the frequency was
actually an engineer working for the provider, and was supposedly an
expert. Apparently he was also unaware that in North America UMTS
operated on different frequecies as he told me that any UMTS phone I
bought would work with their system, and he didn't understand why I
was asking him for the frequency.

It all makes sense now.

-Jonathan